I need a solution...please help us

[Iwasoncehappy]

Hello.

 

This is my first post and if you are a positive happy person who likes to read positive happy stuff.I urge you to try a different thread. If you are still reading maybe someone can help us out because debt is making me ill, straining our marriage and the last time I saw anyone smile in our family was many moons ago.

 

I am an educated bloke, hard working, I was ver enthusiastic and positive..but strain and stress of debt is sucking my will to live. I will admit I have never really been very good with money..easy come easy go.

 

We bought our home in 2006 and set about renovating it. The renovation costs were massive compared to what we budgeted for but the idea of getting it finished just led us to spend until complete. We took out loans, maxed credit cards and eventually took out a Firstplus secured loan ( major mistake). They mis-sold this to us and apparently we do not have a leg to stand on. I ended up going to Payplan 2 years ago to sort the unsecured debt. We have paid without delay ever since but our credit rating is dreadful and we still owe about £40K at £400pm we are in bed with them for an eternity. We have a mortgage £141K on interest only and of course the awful Firstplus loan of some 77k that ,even after 5 years of payments...we still owe them more than we took out in the first place!! and the FP interest rate is near 10%!!

 

We have 2 fantastic boys 2 and 9, my wife is working nights as a nurse, I am full time and do some work on the side but we still struggle. We do not have holidays or luxuries ( I smoke, i know I shouldn't but...) I am suffering enormously with stress. I have continuous colds, aches, pains, headaches, stomach problems, chest pains...it getting worse and now I sleep very little, when I do I wake up several times a night...I think you get the idea!...We can't sell the house because we would never get another mortgage and we would be left in negative equity. I can't go Bankrupt because I would lose my job.

 

We have made serious errors I know, I feel many of these loans are unenforceable but I am losing the energy to fight them. FP are very difficult to deal with...they can make up their figures at will depending on how they feel that month..a total joke ( I have paid them nearly £36000 in 5 years and I still owe them more than I took out...Carol Vorderman should be ashamed)

 

What I am really asking for is some guidance..We can't go on like this. My wife and I are falling out a lot and I have thought of leaving..we have 2 smashing boys and we do love eachother but...I, especially, am absorbed by this negative demeanour I have because of debt.

 

I feel so confused by all the financial talk of what is enforceable and PPI and bank charges and so on that I do little.

 

Any help here would be most appreciated..it is 3am, I am up for work in 3 hours and will probably be having trouble sleeping again TM night after a 10 hour day followed by my other work on the side as well as trying to be a good father and a good husband.......this is impossible

 

Suicide would be an easy way out but I could never leave my boys that way and certainly not leave this mess for someone else to clear up!!..I'm knackered, depressed, stressed and so bloody pessimistic ..which,really isn't like me at all..I was once the life and sole of the party...oh for those days again!!!

 

orry for the depressive first post and I fully understand if you have all switched over...It's actually quite liberating typing this out on a forum to people I don't know!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Iwasoncehappy,

Welcome to CAG

I'm so sorry to read of all your problems, you really sound at the end of your tether but the fact that you've come on here for help and written it all down is a significant first step.

I have been in a similar situation albeit with a different set of figures, many years ago, so I understand all too well what you're going through.

 

The first thing that needs addressing, which would help you cope with everything else, is your state of mind. You're obviously depressed, highly stressed and exhausted.

Please, please consider going to see your GP about this. Many people feel too proud to admit financial problems, but your GP won't be interested in the details, just the effect it has on you.

 

With regard to the debts, we'll help you organise your thoughts, prioritise and look at all your options step by step. You will also get lots of moral support which in itself is invaluable.

 

I didn't want you to get up this morning to find no response, so this is just be way of a welcome and a starter. I'll bring your post to the attention of some good people so you should get more input during the day.

 

Take care,

 

Elsa x

[dx100uk]

hey you are not alone..................

 

i think the first thing we need to know are your debts

list them and with whom and what you are paying

 

it the meantime

 

have a look at seq's excellent blog in my sig

 

i bet there is lots we and you can help with

 

dx

[42man]

Hello Iwasoncehappy.....please try your best to relax, be assured that you are amongst others here who are going through or have been through similar situations as yourself..... With regard to FirstPlus. Did you actually have PPI on your agreement, Are you in arrears with them ? Do spend some time reading around these forums as you will get some inspiration.

[rebel11]

Hi Iwas

 

As the guys have said you've come to the right place. You need to break down all the debts to see the best way forward. It might be an idea to send a SAR

request to Firstplus, so you can get all the data on that account.

There are quite a few threads on Firstplus, interesting reading.

 

Thread moved.

[Iwasoncehappy]

Hi.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

To answer some of the questions;

 

1. We did take out PPI in 2006 but I soon realised it was a total con and cancelled it before our first payment.

2. In 2009 I went with Payplan under debt management for the unsecured debt that we now pay £400 a month for.

3. I went to the Docs last year and she put me on anti depressants..they made me feel a whole lot worse so after 6 months I stopped taking them.

4. Collectively we bring home about £3400 per month and I can earn up to another £1K or so on the side. Before we eat at the beginning of the month our total commitments come to £2700 and then there is fuel for the cars and so on....

5. When I took out the FP loan, I spoke with the sales agent and stated I would like a fixed rate as I was worried about interest rates going up..she stated that isn't going to happen...I applied for a subject access request and that conversation was missing or omitted!!..in the paperwork they played with the figures to ensure I was within the 125% LTV...which at the time I was happy with but..I know I have been irresponsible but surely they have an obligation to act responsibly too??

Many of the loans I took out, which are now with payplan DMP, were taken out on line so I never physically signed them. Now I know this is shoddy, I had the money, I spent the money, but the banks are creaming me dry elsewhere and if I have a way of avoiding these debts or getting them wiped off then so be it..for my sanity and that of my family!!...They will always get their money back 10 fold elsewhere...Barclays especially as I have 3 agreements with them as well as the FP loan.

 

Once again thanks for the replies.

 

There was one other thing..the OFT guidelines state that the creditors do not have to produce a signed copy of the agreements if asked??..if so, how will a debt become unenforcible??

[bdcarr]

Hi IWasOnceHappy,

 

I read on this site (which I might add is fantastic) a comment about Debt being only paper and they are right. The CAGS know what they are doing and have experience in all aspects.

 

I think we have all faced the strain and its hard to believe that their is an solution, but be assured that these guys/gals know what they are talking about and will direct you to obtaining an outcome that will release some of that stress.

 

You are not alone and neither is your family, you are all together and thats the main thing.

[Undercover-Elsa]

:-)Hi again,

The OFT guidelines you mention relate to the creditor satisfying formal requests for a copy of the agreement (a "CCA Request"). Recent case law has established that they can supply a generic reconstituted copy of the agreement in response to these requests, as opposed to a photocopy of the original agreement. However if the creditor wants to go to court to enforce the debt, then they should produce the original agreement in court (although some judges seem confused about this!).

There are lots of other protocols and hoops they need to jump through too.

It's still worth sending CCA Requests, as it lets you judge the lie of the land and decide how to progress. Sometimes they can't even come up with a recon, and sometimes they do produce the original agreement but it fails to contain all the required terms, etc. All this only really applies to cards and loans taken out before April 2007.

Could you breakdown what you have that falls into this category..then you could send off a CCA Request for the relevant ones.

Have a read of my blog, linked below...there's more info there, and a link to the CCA letter. You also need to investigate unfair charges on any credit cards with a view to reclaiming.

 

I take your point about the antidepressants...but to be fair there are many different types and it's quite usual to have to go through a period of trial and error to see which one is right for you. It's a very personal decision though and one that only you can make. Hopefully by starting to fight back and take control of your finances you'll soon feel a lot better anyway...

 

Elsa x

[Iwasoncehappy]

Elsa.

 

Thank you so much. I have read your blog and it is fantastic. You are right, I f I can make a 'proper' start on taking these creditors to task then I may start to feel better. i have always been a fighter but I seem to have lost that urge. Every time I write to these people or seek a route..they hit me with some legal jargon or explanation that baffles me completely. They seem too big to take on. i do not have surplus cash to fight them in court..I do not want to lose our home and I simply can't go bankrupt because of my job.

 

My Dad helps us out every now and again but that makes me feel so worthless, a near 40 year old man on £40 K a year and being serviced by his Dad!!...I never imagined we would get in to a mess like this..i have earning capacity, i am pretty clever with all sorts of things and can turn that in to cash but the money just goes..we have no savings, or anything..I feel like a slave to the banks...I can almost imagine them laughing at me to be honest..they have me over a barrel and if they can turn the screw a bit more, to inject more pain...they will!

 

Thanks again.

[kerrymunday]

Hi Iwasoncehappy..

 

Do not dispare..

 

You have 2 options..1 my brother did and he is fine now owns his house and has a good income and the other we did..

 

first option..My brother decleared himself bankrupt...I can tell u the ins and outs but he now has a mortgage and a healthy bank balance..from what he tells me all debt was wiped..

 

Our option.. We sold our house..We wrote to the loan company (22K worth of debit), we advised them they could have £5 per month till we die or we would give them 5k to close the debit...They took the 5k option..We had a bad credit rating for 5 years (we had already moved mortgage before this) but knew that that would not bother us...

 

even in the darkest hours there is light at the end of the tunnel..

 

Look into these 2 options, they held us...

 

It is far to easy to get into debt these days..Infact the Banks and Loan people nearly always encourage it

 

Good Luck

 

Kerry x

[Undercover-Elsa]

That's what families are for! Don't feel guilty...it's swings and roundabouts and no doubt you'll be there for your dad when he needs you..in whatever way...people who love you don't keep score.

Kit yourself out with a ring folder for each debt to be tackled...hunt out the correspondence and docs for each one and file it. Let us know which ones need tackling..year taken out, type, rough balance and what you're currently paying...and we'll get cracking.

They won't be laughing for long if we can help it...

[teaboy2]

Not only will you need to know if the credit agreements are valid, but you will also need to know if they have issued defaults against you and if so whether the default notices that were send to you were valid or not. We will also need to know if any of the original creditors have sold the accounts to third parties (i.e DCA's), if they have and if they were sold on the back of an invalid default notice, then things will look very rosey for you and your family.

 

So you need to send a Subject Access Request to all the original creditors along with a £10 statutory fee to all of them. Though do this only after you have received the CCA's that way we can prioritise which ones need the Subject access request the most, and the ones with unenforceable credit agreements can be dealt with slightly later.

[rebel11]

The other thing is get organised. Get a folder, divide it into sections for each creditor. You know exactly were you stand with each creditor, what you've sent, what you need to send.

[Happyhippy1959]

yes Iwashappy, Hippy just giving you a quick shout of support. I have one of those First Plus loans, wife left me and I am struggling to pay that and mortgage. But I keep on, as for the unsecured debt of which I have approx £40k, these great guy's here were better than any anti-depressants, I pay each a £1.00 token and have been for nearly three years.

 

As for FP, I must admit the dealings i have had with them have been ok, First of all when they talk to you let them know that Barclays are the owners of them,,, I had a three month reduction on my payment when I hit trouble, I know they will claw it back some how but it helped me.

 

Also, my house is in neg equity and that at present plays to my advantage if I were to choose the Bankruptcy option, which I have mulled over on many occasions. To me and this is me only, I would have to let the house go and then any shortfall would become unsecured and in the BR pot it would go. But with my offspring living with Ex in rented accommodation I will try everything to keep roof over my head for them mainly.

 

I enjoy my work which helps and am now thinking of taking a part-time job to help with day to day costs... So please, I hope you can now begin to get back on track like I did thanks to the wonderful people here.

 

I will follow your progress with interest, best of luck mate and start the living, debt is that, a piece of paper.

[bubbsie1]

Hi Iwasoncehappy

 

I have only been on this forum since January 2011 and like you found myself in so much debt I wasn't sure which way to turn; I had creditors threatening to call at my home, take me to court, make me bankrupt, take my home off me.

 

Similarly I had a good standard of living, clever, professional, proud home owner, etc; but what has happened to us can happen to anyone and is happening frequently nowadays in the most unexpected circles!!

 

I had no experience of dealing with creditors, however, after finding CAG I realised that DCA's and Original Creditors will try to baffle you with legal jargon safe in the hope/knowledge many people will not understand it and will cave into unreasonable/impossible demands for repayments.

 

On many occassions it is just that, baffle, and doesn't mean anything and is unlikely sometimes to have any legal standing.

 

Many DCA's and Creditors also want you to feel powerless; want you to believe they are some sort of omnipotent beings who do not have to stick to the rules/procedures set down, they are not too big, just look at the recent ppi fiasco!!

 

I don't want to patronise you and try to 'jollly' you along, been in a similar position myself (still fighting them off with caggers help) and it is frigthening; there is no doubt at the moment you are in a financial 'Mess' however at some point I am positive you will find some balance with the support you receive on this forum.

 

I would suggest you take Elsa's advice and start the fight back now and keep all your dealings with DCA's and Original Creditors in writing,don't talk to them on the phone, anything you send them should always be sent recorded delivery so it can be tracked and traced.

 

Whilst I still have some way to go to resolve my many debt problems I am learning all the time on this forum and slowly taking charge of my own finances in a positive way

 

It is a very hard slog but once you get started you will feel more in control ( I did).

 

As for your dad helping I am sure he doesn't feel that way.......parents never stop being parents (as you know) and will do all they can for their children unconditionally.

 

Good Luck

 

Bubbsie

[HardYards]

Hi, IwasOnce (and will be again!!!)Happy,

 

Just to throw in my iota of support... you sound like you have in life what really counts, your beautiful children and wife. It's not worth letting debt take away your peace of mind - you deserve a better quality of life.

 

You're in the right place. CAG really is a great place and the support is amazing, there's lots to read, too.

 

Just my two cents on meds: I suffer from depression, I have to have meds because my brain doesn't produce enough happy chemicals. Hard as it is, if you can, keep seeing your GP until you get the anti-depressant that is right for you, even if you're only going to be on it for a short time.

 

I've been through the insomnia and the suicidal feelings but with the help of a good anti-d, the support of my GP (it might be an idea to tell yours about your debt problems, my OH's GP wrote a letter of support for him) and the support of other CAGgers, plus this website which has so much information, life is good again. A struggle, but we're no longer living in fear.

 

It takes time & some effort but like someone else said, reclaiming your life is worth it.

 

As someone else also said, organising yourself helps, too. I've got file folders for all my OH's stuff, plus a big box file that I plonk all correspondence after I've read and date-stamped it into for sorting later on. I also have a specified time for dealing with debt stuff, and if I'm not 'clocked on' then I banish the thoughts of it, which do nothing but stress me out, until it's time to deal with the paperwork again.

 

If you do find yourself unable to stop thoughts going round in your head, try, if you can, repeating 'beep' out loud. Stops you obsessiong and beeping is silly so sometimes even makes you laugh in the bargain.

 

Wishing you all the best

H.xx

[Happyhippy1959]

I again will second the last two responses,,,, I scan and keep all my correspondence and dealings with all my creditors and agents,, (more like children really) I don't know if it is hippy, but I feel after a quick letter to them with the help of this great site, they seem to tone down and back off with all the total threatening Cr*p like ( we will send the bailiffs take your house and all that phiss and wind.) I think though it maybe the hippie through a haze of the herbal baccky, that they seem to know you have been on this site so start to tread a bit more carefully with you.... Also the more people know there rights the more these low-life's are going out of business. I work in a large hospital on a busy ward and had to tell my colleagues my debt problems due to the break up off my marriage, the calls came thick and fast but thanks to CAG and our hospital legal department they have stopped. I was so surprised how many off my colleagues were in debt trouble and many are now using this great site after my recommendation.

 

So we are not alone...

[Iwasoncehappy]

Hi all.

 

Thanks again for the messages.

 

In addition to this cry for help last night, i also wrote to payplan. They have phoned me today and we spoke at length..mainly about the intolerable stress and strain it is putting on us. In addition to offering to look at our bills to find cheaper alternatives, they have offered to look at turning our DMP ( that has 9 years to run) in to an IVA ( over and done with in 5 years apparently).

 

I am a little annoyed that it starts from day one again but seems an option. I will need to reduce the payments. What are your thoughts here?? What implications will this have on us and does this option make sense or not?..if we go down this route we will still have a rubbish credit record for 11 years!!..that would make me 50!!!

 

Thanks for reading my negative drivel ...but thanks for the great support..It has helped..what would be even better is if anyone has a spare £250K lying around that they don't really need, i am a willing candidate to look after it for you!!! :lol:

[gandalfthegrey]

Hi Iwasoncehappy.

 

I'm in my early 40's and was in a very similar situation. (still am a little...)

 

I would personally negotiate a lower payment for the secured loan and reduce all the unsecured loans to £5 a month each. Write to them all and explain your situation and tell them the situation can be reviewed in 12 months. Give yourself some breathing space.

 

If any of them don't agree to that, stop paying them. When the get shirty, offer them the £5 a month again or ask to see a copy of the original agreement. Don't be bullied by these 'merchant bankers' any more.

 

Keep all letters and envelopes (date the envelopes when received).

 

You sound like a really decent guy with a great family. That's something real and to be cherished every day.

 

Don't let this illusion of debt worry you anymore.

[bubbsie1]

Hi IOWH

 

you are sounding better already and of course if I had 250k I'd be more than willing to .............

 

I think as Gandalf suggests you need to give yourself some breathing space first before making your decision on whether an IVA is right for you and your family at this time.

 

I believe IVA's are often portrayed as 'a quick fix' with some practioners claiming to to be able to write off 75% of your exisitng debts, this is not always the case.

 

The creditors will have the last word on how much of the debt is written off at the creditors meeting; its not you or the insolvency practioner that makes the call on what percentage is written off.

 

Your home and personal assets i.e house and car/valuables may be at risk, unless you ask creditors specifically not to include include them in the IVA, some will exclude those assets, some won't.

 

On a positive note since an IVA is a legally binding agreement your creditors are bound by it as long as you adhere to it terms, however, if you do not stick to the arrangements bankruptcy is a real/likely possibility.

 

Other factors such as supervision, losing complete control of your spending and having to stick to a tight budget, generally one set by creditors and having to declare any windfalls (of course if you win the lottery big time who would give a fudge about declaring that) so this can be included.

 

There are lots of pros and cons to an IVA; I am not an expert but I did a bit of research for my own benefit when deciding whether it was right for me; so all I am saying is be careful, in such a tight corner it is always tempting to reach out for what sounds like an easier route to a debt free life but don't rush into anything.

 

I also found that a number of insolvency sites claimed the practioners fee came out of the debtors money but it doesn't you will be paying for the IVA practioner as well as paying the creditors (to my knowledge?).

 

As stated I am not an expert, however, there are others on this forum with much more experience than me everything I have said is based entirely on my own experiences/research but i believe I have a reasonable idea of what an IVA entails.

 

I decided an IVA was not for me but its your call.

 

Just take your time and as much advice as you can get before you decide.

 

Good luck

 

bubbsie

 

 

 

 

 

t

Edited June 16, 2011 by bubbsie1

[Undercover-Elsa]

I certainly wouldn't make any decision about an IVA without verifying the validity of the unsecured debts first. As already advised, a CCA request for all the relevant ones is in order..once IWOH has listed them for us so we can evaluate which ones are worth checking. CCCS aren't into checking agreements and an IVA would only address the unsecured debts anyway. Did they mention they may require release of any equity after 5 years?

This needs to be done calmly and methodically, covering all aspects. Randomly stopping paying won't help at all..it needs to be done correctly once a valid dispute is raised.

[Iwasoncehappy]

Hi Bubbsie.

 

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

 

I am under a DMP and have been since march 2009. I currently pay £400 a month but, under this arrangement I will be in the slop for 9 years! I use Payplan, they are funded by the banks and do not charge at all. It is a preferred company by the banks for debt management apparently. Every penny so far that I have paid to them has come off of my debts.

 

I wonder If I could halve my payments under a IVA which over 60 months is just 12K rather than the £40K I currently owe. This would be more manageable and If I came into some money say £12K..would they take this as full and final settlement before the expiry date of the IVA?????...My Dad would have no problem sorting that amount out for us and I could pay him back rather than creditors and at the same time repair our credit file???

 

So many questions and so much confusion...there simply has to be a way out of this mess, quickly and amicably..like I said previously, These banks over the years will still get their money one way or the other, just in a different form..we are all compelled to use banks so I do not particularly care for them or what is morally right or wrong...I have to consider my family and our health..i just need their signature on a piece of paper to say they are happy with a £200 payment per month for 5 years ( with the option of settling early)

 

Thanks to all again..I do feel better, I am tired but feel better...plenty of time to sleep when I'm dead!!

[Iwasoncehappy]

My unsecured debts ( approximate figures)

 

Barclays loan £11100

Barclay loan £5500

Barclay O/D £4000

Alliance/leics Loan £9000

Egg CC £6200

Paypal CC £3000 ( transferred to lewis group)

MBNA CC £1200 ( transferred to Experto Credite)

 

 

Secured stuff

 

Mortgage express £ 141900

Barclays Firstplus xxxxxxxx £77000

 

I currently pay

 

£400 to my DMP via payplan for the above unsecured debt

£300 to Mortgage express ( interest only mortgage)

£650 to FP

 

other expenses

 

£400 Nursery fees ( my wife works nights and sacrifices sleep to pick little un up early to lower costs)

£144 Gas Elec

£350 Petrol

£80 Car insurance ( for both cars)

£100 Life insurance

£136 council tax

£12 TV License

£4-500 food

£35 House insurance

£85 water

£10 Sky

£12 AA

£ 35 mobiles

£ 30 Telephone broadband

 

 

Add a bit of spending, car repairs, house maintenance, clothes, shoes, MOT's, school trips.. oh and I religiously put £10 a month in to my boys accounts..we then have very little.

 

Thanks for looking

[Undercover-Elsa]

Well done oncehappy,

I know it feels a bit like being at an AA meeting.... "Hi, my names Janice and I have gin on my cornflakes"...LOL.... but just writing it down on here means you've come a long way towards facing up to it and sorting it out.

 

OK..the unsecured ones...which of those was taken out pre April 2007?

I ask this because that's when the law changed re unenforceability of regulated agreements. After this even a poorly drafted agreement can be enforced at the judges discretion.

 

How long will you need to continue paying nursery fees?

 

The huge FirstPlus payments are a millstone. Have you looked into taking out a 2nd or topup mortgage to clear this? No doubt their early settlement figure would be prohibitive, but might be worth asking the question. They've received a lot of stick about their variable interest rates etc. Maybe now its owned by Barclays they may look at reconvening the balance for you at a better rate, or over a longer period.

 

With regard to the IVA...as you've already been paying £400 a month to the DMP, you'd need to convince them that £200 is the maximum you could afford from hereonin. Check very carefully what they would expect in terms of your property.

 

Elsa x

Edited June 17, 2011 by Undercover-Elsa

[Iwasoncehappy]

Hi thanks for your reply.

 

I will send off the requests for the original documents. To be honest, I set fire to all the agreements 2 years ago once Payplan got involved !!

 

What form do I need to send them to get the original documents?..I think all the barclays loans were pre 2007 and the MBNA CC but the rest were after 2007 ..I think.

 

Thanks