Esa stopped cos hubby moved in

[speedfreek]

They sent me a reminder letter after I called them to ask them to check when I needed to send a new one in.

 

So reminding them to remind you seams to work well!

 

Give em a call as they may hold payments until the note is received (has something to do with when you're next due to be paid by them)

 

Unless you can fax it across (?) it will take 7-10 days before they receive/process it.

 

I scan a copy of all my fit notes to PC, plus note the date in my ESA file and call up 7-10 days to check receipt by ESA folks.

[speedfreek]

With regard to recording the medical you are supposed to ask their permission in writing.They would then insist on proper recording equipment like they use in the police and a sound engineer.

I know of people who have recorded it but haven't told the doctor that they are.

If your husband is going in with you he can take notes for you.

Best wishes.

 

Lies I tell you lies

 

Just do it & don't tell them. The ATOS policy on recording of medicals is just that their policy and has no basis in law.

 

The only argument on covertly recorded medicals is what you can legally do with the recording afterwards and whether it will be accepted as evidence by a tribunal.

 

There's a 5 page thread in the NHS section on recording medicals if you need more info.

 

Since you will be taking notes I'd suggest transcribing the recording and submitting that if needed.

 

Remember if you ask to record on the day the most likely outcome will be for them to stop the assessment there and then. With all the problems that will bring.

[speedfreek]

Just a quickie that may help others, you mention about taking somebody into the medical with you. When I had my medical with ATOS, I asked if it was possible if my wife could come in with me. I was told that it wasn't necessary and may in fact be a disrupting influence to have her in there. So she stayed in the waiting room.

I felt that they were almost insisting that she didn't come in.

Why is it so important for you to mention it?

By the way I failed(Jan2010)and received 0 points. Have appealed but have cancelled the appeal because it is taking too long to be heard (April 2011). I am hoping to put in a new claim, but that is another story.

Thanks

 

More lies (Not having a go GRUMPYOLEMAN just putting things right )

 

There is nothing legally stopping you having someone there

 

The only reason why they might complain is if something isn't right with them i.e. it's a shonky medical with someone actively there to fail you to improve their stats to meet failure targets.

 

You have a right to be there with them no guff nothing it is your right!

[speedfreek]

No they do not mean you have passed ESA I'm afraid.

 

Until you get a letter from the DWP saying one way or the other you're still in the assessment phase of ESA.

 

Pathways can happen at any time and a lot of people have found themselves going to all 6 interviews before their ESA claim is decided.

[speedfreek]

This is a failure to participate in a medical so therefore there will be no report to contest (as we know it).

 

Contact DIAL and MIND and ask for their advice. Following that a local CAB or Welfare Right if you've got them.

 

I've just done a post search on your profile and seen your original thread about this. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278139-there-saying-quot-incomplete-medical-quot-(&p=3138447&highlight=#post3138447

 

This was my big fear (well one of the many )

 

They will probably tell you that you need evidence to support you. GP, CPN, psychiatrist and even a declaration of a professional (same as passport) or partner can help.

 

I'd go

Contact MH charity

Arrange to get get evidence (see what the time line is)

Appeal and at the same time raise a complaint to both the DPW & ATOS and send a copy both complaints inc evidence to my local MP anybody else who I think can help.

 

Sorry I can't help more

[speedfreek]

@ leemack yes it is a fail to complete/participate see original thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283979-What-Would-You-Do-Would-Like-Your-Views&p=3207059&highlight=#post3207059

 

1st off get in touch with SHELTER about the housing issues as they have to do things in a set way. Read the guides and then contact them for specifics.

 

http://www.shelter.org.uk/

 

It's only a phone call and instead of arguing blindly with the council you'll hopefully be able to sucker punch em with your rights.

 

I see you're getting some good advice/help with this in the thread you've raised on the rental section of this board.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?286502-Plz-help-council-repossession&p=3221785&highlight=#post3221785

 

As you can see I agree with their advice shelter/CAB and do it now.

 

On the ESA front.

 

Yes you were hit with a failed to participate/incomplete medical - this means that a decision has been automatically made that you do not have LCW (Limited Capacity for Work).

 

This decision means the 6 month rule applies from it's date it also means no ESA payment (at appeal rate) whilst appealing & no new ESA claim will be allowed for 6 months unless it is for a new condition or a deterioration of the existing condition.

 

You were advised to appeal against that decision including medical evidence to support the fact that this was due to your condition.

 

Have you done this?

 

Don't quote me on this but I've read somewhere that people on ESA can claim hardship payments if they've appealed and are receiving no money (same as people on JSA can). Not sure on this as it was a passing comment in a discussion on that pay site we're not allowed to mention. Maybe worth looking into as it's better than a crisis loan. Can the site team advise or anyone else?

 

Looking through your post history ( http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/search.php?searchid=174863 ) you seam to be constantly having quite a lot of different issues with benefits, have you (or considered) contacting CAB or Welfare Rights to get there opinion and assistance? If not you really should as you're fighting on a couple of fronts and they can help you sort out this mess.

[speedfreek]

TBH that sounds nasty and not exactly what you need on top of everything else right now is it!

 

From what little I know on the subject best I can suggest would be to contact the Council, CAB & local Womans' support groups in that order.

 

Have a look at what's available in your area and start getting in contact with them to see if they can offer assistance, point you in the right direction and give you some support.

[speedfreek]

I don't know them but your experience doesn't really signal a good start

 

Depends on what their criteria is now? Legal Aid rules have or are to change from £6000 saving limit to £1000.

 

They may also be conducting a survey to find out who's using it. Remember they are a Govt agency (their website is about/is being moved to yougov) so will have all that survey gubbins going on.

 

To access any funded service you have to provide proof that you qualify for the help.

 

I had to provide 3 months bank statements, evidence of my benefits and sign a declaration before my local welfare rights place would take my case.

 

I'm afraid if you want free help you have to jump through the hoops.

[speedfreek]

Right you should have been informed of this and been give the chance to explain why you have not attended and also to appeal the sanction.

 

More infor on WFI/ESA/Sanctions & the process can be found here

 

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/wr_jcpluswfi

 

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/wr_esasanctions

 

So the 1st question is where you notified of the failure to attend? Whilst the 2nd is have to lodged an appeal?

 

Have you any communication from either the patheways provider or the DWP?

[speedfreek]

Banks ment to do this earlier

 

Right you have to get yourself or somebody to start at this. You can not be sanctioned further (lose more money than you are) so it's a bit of a no-brainer.

 

You need to contact the DWP and find out where these letters asking why you did not attend and the sanction letters are?

 

Then you need to fight this.

 

1stly get statments of doctor relatives etc on how you would not be able to travel there or open door to strangers.

 

2ndly argue that due to your condition/lack of notification etc that any appeal should be allowed.

 

Also if you can contact MIND/DIAL or anybody you think might be able to help you.

 

They expect you not to fight it but it's something you have to do!!! If you appeal you will more than likely win plus then you're protected from this guff for a fair while in the future!

 

I supose I'm lucky I have brief periods when I'm post attack or not ****ed I can do business due to being all panicced out.

 

I have no doubt that members of the Committee will ask about sanctions, and I shall explain the process. At the moment, the existing sanctions for ESA are open-ended until claimants re-comply with requirements placed on them, which usually involve a work-focused interview. Of the work-related activity component, 50% can be sanctioned for the first four weeks and thereafter it is 100%. As part of the process of tightening the regime, a person who disengages and does not turn up will lose part of their benefits until they do turn up. Thereafter, a lower-level sanction for non-appearance will apply, of the sort that the shadow Minister and I discussed in the Welfare Reform Bill Committee. The amounts have yet to be decided, but it is not our intention to remove any of the components we discussed in the Bill Committee—housing, child care and so forth. The sanctions will apply simply to lower-level benefit receipts

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtoday/cmstand/output/deleg/dg01110511-01.htm

 

safeguards to ensure Ministerial commitments that people with mental health problems will not be sanctioned inappropriately.

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/plp-section2.pdf

[speedfreek]

Here's mine word for word from 2010 (okay it's missing me going erm erm erm a lot). Zero points all round \o/

 

I highly recommend using a Sansa Zip clip for covert recording - works well (better than my phone did even under a thick t-shirt) clear as a bell and easy transfer of files to a PC or anything else. Records in wav format so plays in WMP (Windows Media Player!

 

k = a Nurse s = me

K. My names K I'm a nurse. Do you understand why you are here?

S. Yes

K. I see from the form you suffer from anxiety and depression?

S. yes

k. how long have you suffered with that?

s Erm.. depression was diagnosed 3-4 years ago. Probably been going on a lot longer than that. & panic as well same time

k. how often are you seeing your doctor at the moment?

s. erm erm when needed

k. so there's no regular

s, no er I've been going to see a councillor regularly

k. how often do you see your councillor?

s, erm initially it was every 1 week now it's every 2 weeks. Been referred for low cost psychotherapy which I'm just waiting to hear back from which should be twice a week for a year.

k. so apart from GP & councillor you see nobody else at the moment

s. no

k. any thoughts of self harm

s. no

k. what medication do you take

s. non

k. non at the moment?

s. every time I've been put on medication it makes it worse for me

k & how did you come here today?

s. taxi

k. how long was your journey roughly?

s. don't know

k. where did you come from

s. xxxxxxxx

k. who are you living with at the moment

s. me

k. just you?

s. yeah

k. have you got a flat or supported accommodation?

s. flat

k. and what was your last occupation?

s. xxxxxxxxxx

k. so was the reason you left your illness or was there another reason?

s. basically yes. I had difficulty going in then I has a long period off, then things just got worse

k. yeah

k. how would you describe your sleeping at the moment?

s. well up to about 2 weeks ago I was going to bed between 1 & 4 and getting up at 9. now I'm going to bed between 1 & 2 & getting up at 6.

k. do you sleep alright through or get up during the middle of the night anything like that?

s. erm

k. do you find it hard to get off to sleep?

s. I find it difficult to get to sleep then I just wake up at that time

k. when you wake up in the morning do you tend to wake up and get up?

s. yeah

k. or does somebody have to remind you to get up or encourage you?

s. just get up

k. what about washing and dressing? do you do it daily or do you feel that sometime you can't be bothered?

s. no I don't.

k you don't what?

s. erm erm I haven't had a bath or shower for about a year and a half and basically wake up in the clothes I went to bed in.

k. so you haven't changed clothes for how long?

s. well if I go out I put clothes on but erm if I'm just in the house I don't know usually a week to 2.

k. what about cooking do you cook yourself?

s. yes

k. proper meals or microwave meals?

s. depends if I remember normally it's just snack nuts crisps n things or if I can put something in the over or a pan I can do that.

k. any accidents in the kitchen recently?

s. erm no

k. what about things like house work?

s. erm I just Hoover every now and again that's about it.

k. you Hoover

s .yeah

k. anything else? washing your clothes in a washing machine?

s. well I don't get changed so there's never really anything to wash.

k. what about your shopping? Do you go to the local shops or supermarket?

s. super market

k. what weekly

s. yeah

k. or monthly

s. weekly

k. is that by yourself or do you go with someone

s. myself

k. do you drive?

ss. no

k. what about public transport? busses tubes?

s. no

k. you don't do that?

s. no

k. why is that?

s. erm I don't go out

k. is that because of other people?

s. erm every time I leave the house I basically have a panic attack

k. how do you cope with going to the supermarket?

s. erm just focus on getting there and once I get there things sort of calm down a little bit and because the supermarkets big and anonymous I can sort of navigate round so basically I set way of doing it so I'll go get one thing get another and that's it.

k. any hobbies interests at you can be doing at home

s. no

k. watching TV

s. I can't concentrate on it.

k. do you use a computer at home

s. yeah

k. how about reading newspapers magazines?

s. no

k. no?

s. no

k. listen to music?

s. mainly radio and if I'm out I listen to music as I find it sort of helps distract me

k. so you have an IPod or something and listen to your music?

s. yeah

k. how about friends do you have some good supportive friends?

s. don't know anyone any more

k. any family?

s. non

k. no family

s. not in this city no

k. do you use mobile phone

s. erm no I've got one but I don't

k. who helped you with the form?

s. welfare rights bloke

k. who?

s. welfare rights bloke

k. and what about your bills letters and that do you do all that yourself or does somebody give you a hand?

s. erm it's all on line so it just manages it itself

k. do you drink?

s. yeah

k. safe limits or over the top

s. over the top

k. how much would you say you drunk a day?

s. erm I don't drink daily any more

k. how would you describe your temperament? Are you a generally calm person do you get very angry are you irritable with people

s. don't know because I don't really see people

k. now what happens when you get a panic attack? Is there a certain situation which brings them on do they come out of the blue what happens

s. erm if if I go out basically as soon as I get out the front door sort of like my legs start going and I get tunnel vision head starts spinning then I fell like erm I feel like er my right foots collapsing and I basically just it just everything just goes and I'm not really in control I have to sort of like I basically just focus on myself going the shop just go shop and get there and when I'm there it sort of clams down a little bit but it doesn't stop until I get back and when I'm in the house if I'm having to do anything or go anywhere the same sort of thing happens. It's just it's a lot less severe

k. u hum

s. you sort of sort of know it's happening because everything's going a bit spacial its like.. like.. excuse me er just get confused

k.

s. and erm it.. just a sec erm erm that just keeps going on. Then after I've had one I just get a headache and I need to sleep.

k. do you find that once you remove yourself from that situation that you calm back down and it's ok or does it go on for a little while after.

s. yeah its its sort of erm its like if I get to the shop it sort of calms down for a bit but it's still sort of at a high level but it's not as bad as it was but if anything sort of happens it will kick it straight back off again. So if I've had one I'll have another one and another one till basically I'm just to tired.

k. ok I've got what I need to write the report is there anything you want to ask me?

s. no

k. then let me tell you what happens now this will go back to the DWP okay? If they have anything from your mental health team or GP they will look at that as well. Erm put everything together and usually write to you in two weeks. ok so just continue with what you're doing at the moment wait for the letter and see what that says ok?

s. mumbles

k. everything ok

s. sort of

k. you understand what the process is.

s yeah

k. so if you are sending certificate in from your doctor keep sending them in don't stop until you hear differently from the DWP ok? which will be in that letter that you get from them ok

k ok?

s. yes

k. well thanks for coming in I'm just going to let you out

 

I walked into a wall on the way out too

[speedfreek]

To be fair to speedfreek, the sad reality is that no matter what the claimants responses are the HCP is on a mission to score 0 points, IMHO one might just as well sit there like a dummy and say nothing for all the difference it makes. The way the system is at present, the only real assessment is at appeal.

 

I never said differently tbf That's up there for information purposes only to show people just how it really is when you are up for a definite, before you even get in the room nil pointer!

 

I'm not too bothered about the WCA face to face as according to my welfare rights bloke no matter what happened in it I'd never pass that bit. My 2nd one was even faster and I didn't have to really say much which was nice There's a top top award winning butchers not far from the test centre so round 3 of assessment is going to be a tasty tasty French trimmed rib of beef treat.

 

Tribunal dates just arrived #scared for round 2. So letters just gone off to my new Welfare Rights bloke. Evidence was collected last month. My DPA to my ex GP is in for all my referrals is in. I've just got a new lovely lovely lady GP, a private counselor and I'm about to add a second counselor attached to my new Practice. Plus a few other things on the go treatment wise so no matter what happens round 3 is already on the go

 

As for you Hensteeth :lol::lol:

 

That face to face and it's in depth analysis meant the appeal didn't even make it to a tribunal date

[speedfreek]

My advice would be to look at the descriptors for mental health. Pick the descriptors that apply to you and then tailor the answer to any question to give the info to meet the descriptor. For instance when asked about seeing friends or family, the more important thing to get across is why you no longer no anyone or see anyone - did you have problems relating to or getting on with people? - did you get distressed when having to see anyone? Did you have difficulties with people dropping round or phoning unexpectedly?

 

Be specific about difficulties going to places you are unfamiliar with - point out that the supermarket is familiar. If you don't change clothes, go in dirty clothes - go as you would be on a normal day.

 

I know its really difficult and you'll be feeling very anxious, but if you just concentrate on getting the info across for a few descriptors that will score the points, it may be easier. Certainly you should be scoring 15 points for social contact, 6 points for going out, they didn't even ask about coping with change. Maybe some points for completing tasks. They also didn't ask about behavioural issues.

 

That was under original rules when scoring for MH was a lot easier, you're spot on with the scoring for the current as it's 21 or 16 depending on how you view it.

 

You've actually just done the job of my Welfare Rights worker who'll have to explain and prep me for my up coming Tribunal

 

Thank you for that!

 

As that's just reminded me of what we scored me when he did the appeal and it matches the simple appeal he entered i.e. meets these 2 descriptors at level a/b/c/d. His appeal way was keep it bare minimum, get the pack the DWP are relying on for evidence then and only then once you see what you're up against gather additional evidence and submit your side.

 

I'm actually scored zero on the premises; came to assessment alone, looks normal and doesn't show any signs of our definition of what anxiety is. 4 DMs have agreed so far as the 2 LIMA reports are a very simplified version of everything.

 

The funniest thing about all this is I'm pushing for a Therapeutic Community referral atm. Now although that is for people with complex and serious issues as soon as I'm in I'll definitely lose all my points for social contact so will now fail ESA. You just can't make this up

 

Edit although perversely it does strengthen my DLA case so it's not all bad

Edited August 11, 2012 by speedfreek

[speedfreek]

The amount of claimants now failing assessments goes far beyond what could reasonably be explained away as 'swinging the lead' are we really to believe that the majority of these claims were bogus?

 

How long before the 'theoretical wheelchair' and 'able to push a single button' gets expanded to encompass people like Prof S Hawking who can only communicate through a straw?

 

Can you hold a stick in your mouth? If the answers yes then you're fit for work.

 

Statistics - if you have a planned target for reduction of 20% plus and a appeals system you have to model/factor in a much larger variance to hit on or around that 20% target.

 

So as it is at the moment they fail 37% to hit the 20% target. The last review wasn't to make changes for us but to tighten up the variance in application/appeals. In basic terms we had learned ESA and the application/appeal win rate rocketed to a point where statistically 20% was now off the cards.

 

So they tightened up the regs to remove even more people and dismantled all the help available for benefits (application/appeals) via removing it from legal aid.

 

NHS treatment, Policing, PIP well almost everything is down to statistics now when we switched to the bean counters measurable outcomes.

 

Oh the aids thing is a touchy subject as this rightsnet discussion seams to say they have to have or they be easily acquired by a claimant http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/3476/

[speedfreek]

Totally bizarre that after you saying you don't see anyone because of your mental health issues, they decide that having no one to come with you to assessment is a sign you're fine! If someone has no one to go with them, and has to attend, what the hell do they expect people to do? They really need to get their head around the fact that being able to 'keep it together' for 2 hours in order to try to continue having money for food, does not indicate ability to work.

 

I'm not familiar with a Therapeutic Community referral - what will that involve if you get in?

 

Basically one of these http://www.arboursassociation.org/communities.html

 

As for 2 hours 15 minutes tops the pair of mine! Depends really how much typing they do as I reckon I could be in and out in 5 if wasn't for the clackity clacking of lima entry.

 

As for Drs' n Nurses my 2nd was done by a physiotherapist. Got my first mention of any form of MH on an ESA85 during that one.

 

"Lack of facial expression may indicate mild depression."

 

So thank you Professor Harrington those reforms did me proud

[speedfreek]

They don't pay for taxis.

 

Really? You sure about that? Read the WCA Handbook?

 

As they organised and paid for my taxi there and back on my 1st assessment!

 

So......

[speedfreek]

They didn't at the time of my assessment last October... Have the rules changed since then?

 

http://www.atoshealthcare.com/claimants/faq - Travelling expenses for your assessment

 

There's a list of medical conditions etc in the WCA Handbook that is offer and tentatively offer one.

 

Plus I believe guidance on transport types and duration of journey.

 

You have to be assertive with them!

 

Couldn't be bothered for my 2nd as I fancied a nice rib eye and the butchers is on my way back.

[speedfreek]

Our last Atosser claimed to have worked as a mental health nurse but couldn't differentiate between anxiety and depression, or cope with a visibly distressed claimant. She went on to misinterpret two of the mental health descriptors.

 

Hey that's not too bad tbf.... my (now ex) GP whos web biography states "interest in mental health" doesn't know the difference between a Psychologist Wellbeing Practitioner, Psychiatrist, Psychologist and a Greggs sausage and bean pasty.

 

I got the sneaking suspicion (even thought the size and amount of filling in them now is sadly lacking) that the pasty had a better grasp on the 5 stage model of MH treatment, centralisation of access using IAPT (stage 2) services and how to use a telephone when you do not understand the reports on a patient by people who work soley in the MH field (so know more about it than you).

[speedfreek]

1, "failure to attend"

 

as this is ESA then you didn't turn up for a WCA (Work Capability Assessment) with ATOS were declared Fit For Work without a LCW (Limited Capacity for Work) decision.

 

2, The Decision Made On 14/9/2012 Is Set Aside

 

the decision made in 1 above is over turned as from the date above.

 

Note the DWP has the right to appeal this decision to the Upper Tier (as is yours) but it's very rarely they do this.

 

3, What does that mean? Hard to say as you need to give us a fuller picture of where you are with your ESA claim.

 

You will be paid any missed benefit payments from that date up to now and continue on as normal.

 

Usually with a FTA (Failure to Attend) the advice is lodge a new ESA claim straight away and get a LCW decision by attending and ATOS WCA. The appeal for the FTA is separate to this.

 

If you still haven't had a WCA (so didn't lodge a new claim) then you will have to have one.

 

We can only tell you more if you tell us where you are at tbf.