Shop Direct/Lowells no CCA Account closed **WON**

[ajpoolshark]

TBH, I'm not denying the catalogue debts, just checking to see if they are legal, so with that in mind, I've re-submitted the CCA requests, and have made arrangements to pay over 12 months to clear the balances on the presumption that the CCA's are 'cosher'...'Do the right thing, because its the right to do'..and all that stuff!

[ajpoolshark]

I sent off a cca request for an old pre 2004 littlewoods catologue...The debt was originally passed to phoenix and then to BCW...Got the following letter from BCW this morning...Whats the next step, CCA request to littlewoods or Phoenix recoveries?

 

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

Who do they say are their clients ?

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[ajpoolshark]

Just phoned them....jeez, what an arrogant bunch they are....they refused to give me the info required and said 'the client' will be in contact in the next few working days.....OC was littlewoods, then passed to phoenix recoveries....shall I just CCA requestthe pair of them?

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

I'd wait until 'the client' gets in touch, nightmare phoning them, they never want to help

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[PGH7447]

I would now check your credit file to make sure these cretins havent added anything

[ajpoolshark]

a quick update, I've made arrangments to pay for 2 out of the 3 accounts that are in arrears, am waiting to hear back from empire......They all keep on sending me letters (2 a month) adding on £12 charges...Can these charges be re-claimed?....has anyone had success re-claiming charges from Shop Direct?

[ajpoolshark]

Morning everyone, I'm after some advice. I've incurred numerous charges over the few months from Shop direct regarding 3 catalogues, so I sent off the standard letter for refunding the charges using one of the template spreadsheets shown in the attached letter.

 

....I recieved 3 letters back today, which I will quote below...

 

 

"Dear Mr xxxxxxx

 

I am receipt of your request for adinistration charges on your account to be cancelled.

 

These charges were applied as the minimum payment, shown on your statements, has not been made every 28 days as required. I am therefore unable to cancel the charge

 

It is in your best interests to ensure that the correct payment is made on a regular basis to avoid further charges being made

 

Details of the application of administration charges can be found in your catalogue

 

Yours Sincerely

 

C North

 

Collections Department"

 

So basically they've told me to get stuffed!

Any advice on my next course of action, as the amount of charges that have been put on my accounts equals half the balances!

 

Please help!

cag shop direct refund letter.doc

[ajpoolshark]

just posted another updated thread in the following link... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mail-order-catalogues/215515-shop-direct-admin-letter.html .....Can anyone have a look at this please??

 

Sorry to be a pain, but is there any chance that a Mod can merge the threads, no point in having two threads running..

 

Many thanks

[steve_butcher]

Hi AJ

 

I had over £3,500 alleged debt with Shop Direct. I sent them the standard cca request and then this letter when they didn't respond.

 

Send them the following letter amend to fit:

 

If they have passed the 31 day milestone complain to their local TS

 

http://www.tradingstandards.gov. uk/

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxx the contents of which are noted. I do not acknowledge any debt to your organisation.

 

The reply received does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as I have not received a copy of an executable credit agreement with my signature on it, your failure to do so within the required 12 working days (by xxxx) meant you are in default of my CCA request and the account remains in dispute.

 

My request remains outstanding; a blank application form, as sent, does not constitute a signed copy of a credit agreement.

 

You had a further 31 days until xxx to comply with a copy of a properly executed credit agreement, therefore, you have now committed a criminal offence and I may report your conduct to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards.

 

Additionally, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this account is not enforceable in law.

 

Furthermore, a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

 

a. You may not request any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

b. You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

c. You may not pass this account to any third party.

d. You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

e. You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

Be advised, the CCA is clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. If there is no agreement, as in this case, then you cannot issue a default as I have not breached a valid or regulated agreement.

 

I look forward to your response within the next 14 days

 

Yours Faithfully

 

They have subsiquently said that they will not pursue the debt AT ALL! They have tried to put a Default on the account, but I will challenge this too. Good Luck

[ajpoolshark]

I'm not actually challenging the credit agreement, as it was an online application in 2007 which I believe doesnt require a signed CA, rather I'm trying to get their penalty charges refunded......A quick bump on this thread, as having recieved their 'get stuffed' letter, I really dont know what my next course of action should be....can anyone please help??.....Is court action my only hope now?....Just the thought of court sends shivers down my spine!

[Bookworm]

Don't let the thought of court worry you, they'll pay up before that!

 

They'll huff and puff and try to scare you, but in the end they will not want to justify their charges in front of a judge, so go right ahead and sue their backsides. Only thing is, don't do it through MCOL, go to your local court instead, as MCOL will automatically block your case as a "bank charges" case (yes, I know it isn't one, but they'll do it anyway ), so file through your local court.

 

Don't worry, even if it were to go to court (which it won't), it really is nothing to worry about. Forget Rumpole of the Bailey, it's more like the council meeting in the Vicar of Dibley. ;-)

[rob20042513]

hi,

 

I'm in the same boat as you;

 

i have cca them and they sent back a blank credit form with none of my details on it no name, signatures, dates, just utterly blank, as if they just printed it off for some to apply??????????????

 

this is the letter i sent:

 

Account number: xxxxxxxx

 

xxxxxxx

 

Dear Mr Warburton,

 

Re: My request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxx, the contents of which are noted

 

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. In xxxxx I requested ADDITIONS to supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. From your reply ADDITIONS have failed to comply with my request and have totally ignored your legal obligation to supply me with the said agreement. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you ADDITIONS, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. ADDITIONS has clearly indicated that it does not have the 'TRUE EXECUTED AGREEMENT' for this very account, leading to me being unable to determine consistency and fairness within the agreed terms of the alleged agreement. You have also mentioned within the letter all 'CONTRACTUAL VARIATIONS' which have taken place are enclosed in the current agreement, this does not meet the requirements of the original terms and conditions for when the alleged account opened as they are current terms and conditions, the law simply states that the agreement needs to contain terms and conditions present for when the agreement was executed.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Clearly as the agreement supplied on request no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ADDITIONS become compliant with my request.

 

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require:

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification to confirm from your first letter and credit file to updated accordingly as settled/satisfied or removed.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 and this will be reported accordingly.

 

Furthermore, I draw your attention to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, should you persist in trying to coerce me to pay a debt which remains unsubstantiated, I shall regard this practice as being a clear intentional breach of the regulations and my understanding is that you will be committing an offence which I shall report to the Office of Fair Trading and request that they consider a prosecution against your company and also it will have an adverse affect upon your fitness to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

 

Should you attempt litigation to recover this alleged debt, it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.

 

Should you not understand the contents of this letter I would suggest you consult a qualified solicitor.

 

I trust this out lines the situation, and i look foward to your response within 7 days.

 

Kind regards,

 

xxxxxxxx

 

 

they still have not replied and i posted this of on the 10th, naughty additions, what do i do next????? suggestions

[ajpoolshark]

Don't let the thought of court worry you, they'll pay up before that!

 

They'll huff and puff and try to scare you, but in the end they will not want to justify their charges in front of a judge, so go right ahead and sue their backsides. Only thing is, don't do it through MCOL, go to your local court instead, as MCOL will automatically block your case as a "bank charges" case (yes, I know it isn't one, but they'll do it anyway ), so file through your local court.

 

Don't worry, even if it were to go to court (which it won't), it really is nothing to worry about. Forget Rumpole of the Bailey, it's more like the council meeting in the Vicar of Dibley. ;-)

 

Have sent a pm Bookworm,

 

cheers

[Bookworm]

Read the FAQs and step by step (in the Library), it tells you how to do it all, same as for bank charges, but as I said through local court, not MCOL. There's a guide on how to fill your N1 for credit cards too, follow that and adapt. ;-)

[ajpoolshark]

Thanks for your help BW, I'll get it all started over the weekend

[Bookworm]

Excellent. Let us know how you get on and holler if there's something you don't understand, but the process is really not that complicated.

[ajpoolshark]

Hi, just a quick question....Shop direct sold an account to lowells (on-line app in 2008 ) which is made up of 85% charges...I've had a running battle with shop direct to refund the charges but they basically told me to 'sod off' and sold the account to lowells....I'm sure I remember seeing a letter template on the forum re. putting an account in dispute when its sold to a DCA when the account is mainly charges...I've had a good scan through the forum, but cant find the template....Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

Cheers

[Bazooka Boo]

Is it this one?http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/580-letter-when-bankdca-attempt-to-collect-on-penalty-charge-situation

 

OR,

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/574-letter-when-account-has-been-passed-on-whilst-agreement-request-is-in-dispute

 

Boo

[ajpoolshark]

Thanks Boo...I dont think it was either to be honest...Although, I'm wondering if I can tweak the 1st one....just wondering on the wording, can you advise at all/

 

Thanks

[Bazooka Boo]

Is it in here then?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[ajpoolshark]

Sorry, I cant find it...I'll use letter 1 and tweak the wording..On a side note I've just been on the phone to the F.O.S to see what they have to say about unfair penalty charges on credit accounts...What a joke!!....They say if if someone agrees to the T&C's then its all legit. I even gave an example of a hypothetical company stating penalty charges of £1000 per letter for late payment, and the chap from the F.O.S said that that was perfectly fine if it was in the T&C's....Unbelievable!

[Bazooka Boo]

I believe the FOS are getting snowed under with complaints at the minute, regardless of what they say, if you dispute charges on your account, it would be for a DJ to decide the fairness of them..

[ajpoolshark]

a quick update on this thread......

 

Lowells have sent a copy of the CA, the CA looks like it has all of the proscribed info on it and it has my sig......However the amount outstanding is incorrect...I've checked with my bank and have confirmed payments that were made to the account...Lowells & shop direct say I owe "X" amount, yet I have proof that I owe "X-£40"...So, what now?...an "account in dispute" letter to lowells?

 

on a side not, I've resisted the temptation to phone Lowells about this, and they are also unaware that the debt is mostly made up of penalty charges (I decided to hold fire on that until they produced a valid CA)

[Bazooka Boo]

If the debt is made up of mainly charges, then you should claim them back and have them applied to the debt, and hopefully this will pretty much zero the account..