This is disgusting if allowed to happen

[Tezcatlipoca]

And so it starts... giving them the exposure and attention they were trying to get... Didn't even have to organise the march, simply say they were "planning" to, and here we go, another round of exacerbated political and religious tensions... Dear Lord, when you lot will ever learn? The best way to douse this kind of fire is by blanketing it, not by giving it the oxygen of attention. *sigh*

 

Which is precisely why Uncle Tez has not been posting in this thread.

 

That, and he finds himself adverse to ignorance and bigotry, regardless of where it stems from...

[Bookworm]

i totally agree bookie

 

but what worries me who is realy releasing this garbage to the press

 

it allways happens every six months to keep it in the public eye

 

 

since 911

makes you think

Of course, it doesn't "make you think". It's called propaganda.

 

The BNP starts leaking the "info" that the Red Arrows "won't be allowed" to fly during some event or another... Before anyone thinks of calling the Red Arrows and check, the story has spread like wildfire. By the time someone DOES check, who cares about the truth? the damage has been done and more racial hatred has been stirred up.

 

Islam4UK say they "plan" a march on a now symbolic landmark, and here we go, in the other direction... By the time we don't have a story, it won't matter, we already have, just on here, 5 or 6 pages of outraged people who react with their guts instead of their heads, and since this site is fairly representative of the outside world...

 

Thanks to the Internet, it hardly costs anything these days to keep on stirring those evil winds... No doubt that somewhere in Irak or Afghanistan, you can go online and send messages saying to the locals: "you evil bstrds, we're going to bomb you all, rape your women and spit on your Koran"... and before you know it, the local people will have picked up on that and started hating "them others" even more...

 

Don't you SEE? All of you? You wait and see: It started with an Internet blog, went on to sites like this one, now the Daily Mail has picked it up, bet you that by tomorrow, it will be on the TV news and the red tops, ensuring that the coverage reaches as many people as possible and stirs up more hatred than ever.

 

PS: Tez, I owe you a rep, will find you elsewhere for that.

[postggj]

you mention bnp etc

 

my own opinion is its closer to home who is putting out this crap

 

people are starting to question why our troops are out there and the continued parade of coffins is not doing the uk and usa any favours

 

look at the vietnam war

 

it was public opinion that stopped that

 

ime prob blowing out my rear but

 

WHY ARE WE OUT THERE

 

BUGGER IF I KNOW

[Desperate Daniella]

Actually I'm a bit more concerned about the Muslim radicals trying to blow us up - like the Nigerian trying to blow up the plane on Christmas Day. That wasn't propaganda.

 

The clear answer to any march if they go ahead is a total news blackout. The press should just completely ignore it. That would be the most sensible response.

 

Islam4UK could just say they weren't going to march if they feel this is unfair propaganda but they are obviously enjoying the attention.

 

DD

[Bookworm]

Actually I'm a bit more concerned about the Muslim radicals trying to blow us up - like the Nigerian trying to blow up the plane on Christmas Day. That wasn't propaganda.

No, but what do you think led this guy to try and blow himself up? Propaganda, brainwashing. That's how it starts.

The clear answer to any march if they go ahead is a total news blackout. The press should just completely ignore it. That would be the most sensible response.

What, and miss a wonderful opportunity for more inflammatory headlines? and of course more sales? Do you not get how this works? :-?

Islam4UK could just say they weren't going to march if they feel this is unfair propaganda but they are obviously enjoying the attention.

Well durr, they're the ones who launched the story... Inciting racial hatred works both ways.

 

Postie, I quite agree with you that it's not all what it may seem, unfortunately it is ironic that the the opposite sides are actually working towards the same goal of separation and hatred towards one another. Thus the BNP does more for recruiting radical Muslims for Islam4Uk and Islam4UK pushes more people in the arms of the BNP, whilst those of us in the middle watch in dismay at the sheer stupidity of far too many human beings on either side.

 

PS: Re Afghanistan and Iraq, I predicted that this was exactly what would happen years ago - historically, the invader can not win in a territory where guerilla tactics are being used. The mighty USSR broke their teeth in Afghan territory having the advantage of firepower and being closer, any fool could see it would be far worse for this lot. As for Iraq, don't get me started... The example of Vietnam and the US (and before it was called Vietnam, it was called Indochina and the French failed there first) is but one, South and Central America, you name it... One should hope that by now, a lightbulb would have gone off somewhere, but no... We are intent on repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

[postggj]

the invader can not win in a territory where guerilla tactics are being used.

YUGOSLAVIA AND TITO

 

PRIME EXAMPLE

 

BURMA AND THE CHINDITS

 

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON

 

AND THEY WERE THE GOOD GUYS

[Surfer01]

the invader can not win in a territory where guerilla tactics are being used.

YUGOSLAVIA AND TITO

 

PRIME EXAMPLE

 

BURMA AND THE CHINDITS

 

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON

 

AND THEY WERE THE GOOD GUYS

 

The only time we won a guerilla war was in Malayasia but if the tactics used then are used today they would be questionable. Both Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and South Africa are now governed by former terrorists and murderers.

[postggj]

The only time we won a guerilla war was in Malayasia but if the tactics used then are used today they would be questionable. Both Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and South Africa are now governed by former terrorists and murderers.

 

 

YOGOSLAVIA AND TITO WERE RESISTANCE FIGHTERS AGAINST THE GERMANS AS AN ARMY OF OCCUPATION

 

BURMA AND CHINDITS WERE RESISTANCE FIGHTERS AGAINST THE JAPS AS THE ARMY OF OCCUPATION

[Tezcatlipoca]

YOGOSLAVIA AND TITO WERE RESISTANCE FIGHTERS AGAINST THE GERMANS AS AN ARMY OF OCCUPATION

 

BURMA AND CHINDITS WERE RESISTANCE FIGHTERS AGAINST THE JAPS AS THE ARMY OF OCCUPATION

 

Netiquette

[postggj]

Agree But When You Are In Need Of Glasses, Its Some What Difficult To Hold A Conversation

[woody1066]

Qoute from Baby Bear "How stupid do they think we are?"

 

 

Qoute from UKAVIATOR "As reported in the Daily Mail"

 

 

 

QED

[Desperate Daniella]

1. Of course it was propaganda and brainwashing that got the Nigerian to behave as he did, and Richard Reid and others. That is obvious. That's why these people need the full force of the law used against them. There's too much of an inclination in this country to be tolerant. If they incite hatred, as so many radical preachers do, they should be shut up or deported. For years the police just stood outside the Finsbury Park Mosque allowing these mad clerics to spout hatred.

 

2. Yes, I do get "how it works". I was suggesting (without much hope that it would happen, I admit) that ignoring them just for once would be a sensible response.

 

3. "Durr"? That's just rude. Yes, racial hatred works both ways. Actually I was being sarcastic when I suggested Islam4UK could have said they weren't going to march. As if!!

 

Fact: At the moment lots of these radicals seriously hate us enough to blow us up. I expect there are some UK nutters who would like to blow them up in retaliation but for most of us we just wish they would shut up, or leave the country and go and live somewhere governed by Sharia law if that's what they want, or accept that the UK is their host country and contribute and want to be part of it.

 

I'm just so, so sorry for all our boys and girls in Afghanistan, who are so incredibly brave, and their families here who know that some of their children will be coming home in bodybags. Bless them all.

 

DD

[ukaviator]

Updated Mail story:

 

 

The hate preacher organising a march of Islamic extremists through the streets of Wootton Bassett sparked outrage today by comparing British troops fighting in Afghanistan to Nazi stormtroopers. As more than 190,000 people signed an internet petition objecting to the march, Anjem Choudary said he had chosen to protest in the town renowned for honouring soldiers killed in Afghanistan - because it would attract 'maximum attention'.

 

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said today the protest march would be 'completely inappropriate'. But in remarks designed to cause maximum offence, Choudary compared fallen British heroes to Nazi stormtroopers and the September 11 and July 7 terrorists. He even claimed his plan was backed by families of servicemen and women.

 

Admitting a march through the town would be 'provocative', he launched into a bizarre explanation of why he opposed crowds honouring fallen British soldiers.

 

 

Read more:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1240318/100-000-people-Facebook-protest-Islamic-extremist-march-military-town.html#ixzz0beTVLHW1

[Surfer01]

If they hate the West so much, why do they continue to live here?

[cerberusalert]

He even claimed his plan was backed by families of servicemen and women.

He had the audacity to post his bile on Army Rumour Service > > British Army Rumour Service Home which lasted all of a few minutes before it was removed. So much for Service Personnel and their families backing him.

 

But as already said, the mere fact that Islam4UK is receiving the publicity they crave so much is playing right into their hands. They are playing mind games & in their eyes the more outraged people become the better. They are trying to create a 'them & us' situation, the outraged amongst us will vilify Islam as a whole forgetting that the majority of Muslims are moderate & in turn they will have to defend their faith and so the wheel of suspicion, intolerance & hatred slowly turns.

[woody1066]

He had the audacity to post his bile on Army Rumour Service > > British Army Rumour Service Home which lasted all of a few minutes before it was removed. So much for Service Personnel and their families backing him.

 

But as already said, the mere fact that Islam4UK is receiving the publicity they crave so much is playing right into their hands. They are playing mind games & in their eyes the more outraged people become the better. They are trying to create a 'them & us' situation, the outraged amongst us will vilify Islam as a whole forgetting that the majority of Muslims are moderate & in turn they will have to defend their faith and so the wheel of suspicion, intolerance & hatred slowly turns.

 

Well said! This is exactly how the Nazi Party became popular in Germany in the 1930's by villifying a group of people based entirely on their religious belief's

[postggj]

the thing that would stop this is the decent people of the moslim faith

 

they have this sharia law

they tend to do justice with in there own circle and law

ime not complaning but why do the religiouse leaders in the moslim faith in this country take these fanatics by the scruff of the neck and sort it if they are so apposed and outraged by it.

 

dont give me they will say we dont know who they are

 

they tried that excuse in ireland

[MONX]

This is so silly! It is so obviously a story invented to incite outrage and by reacting to it we are giving the author (whom ever it is) what they want.

[cerberusalert]

dont give me they will say we dont know who they are

They do, but they are terrified of any retaliation against their families back in their homelands. Don't forget they tend to have extended families who are still living in areas controlled by these extremists.

[Bookworm]

Don't you SEE? All of you? You wait and see: It started with an Internet blog, went on to sites like this one, now the Daily Mail has picked it up, bet you that by tomorrow, it will be on the TV news and the red tops, ensuring that the coverage reaches as many people as possible and stirs up more hatred than ever.

I was wrong. It didn't take until tomorrow, I went shopping, the 1 o'clock news had that as the leading item.

[babybear39]

That's the media for ya, don't you just hate us lol

[Fred Bassett]

WHY ARE WE OUT THERE

 

BUGGER IF I KNOW

 

We're out there because Blair had his tongue firmly emplanted in Dubya's anal orifice and would agree to anything as long as it made him popular in Washington. Shame on Blair. Even more shame on the people who voted him in for a third time knowing this to be the case.

 

Fred

[Fred Bassett]

Both Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and South Africa are now governed by former terrorists and murderers.

 

So is Northern Ireland. It seems that this Government is happy to appease terrorists when it wants to.

 

Fred

[postggj]

i see it made the channel four news tonight

[Fred Bassett]

This is what the Judge said when sentencing Richard Reid, the so-called "shoe bomber". I think it puts the a lot of things into perspective:

Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say. His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his "allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah," defiantly stating, "I think I will not apologize for my actions," and told the court "I am at war with your country."

 

Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below:

 

January 30, 2003, United States vs. Reid. Judge Young:

 

"Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.

 

On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the Attorney General.

On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutively. (That's 80 years.)

 

On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years again, to be served consecutively to the 80 years just imposed.

 

The Court imposes upon you for each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 that's an aggregate fine of $2 million.

 

The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.

 

The Court imposes upon you an $800 special assessment.

The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.

 

This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence.

 

Now, let me explain this to you. We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is too much war talk here and I say that to everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court, we deal with individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals. As human beings, we reach out for justice.

You are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether the officers of government do it or your attorney does it, or if you think you are a soldier. You are not----- you are a terrorist. And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not meet with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.

 

So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I've known warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal that is guilty of multiple attempted murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and the TV crews were, and he said: "You're no big deal."

 

You are no big deal.

 

What your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today?

 

I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing? And, I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you, but as I search this entire record, it comes as close to understanding as I know.

 

It seems to me you hate the one thing that to us is most precious. You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose. Here, in this society, the very wind carries freedom. It carries it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely. It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf, have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you before other judges.

 

We Americans are all about freedom. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden; pay any price, to preserve our freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. The day after tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will long endure.

 

Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done. The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mould and shape and refine our sense of justice.

 

See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. And it always will.

 

Mr. Custody Officer. Stand him down."

Edited January 4, 2010 by Fred Bassett