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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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  • 3 weeks later...
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:mad2: Hi everyone. I didn't think I would be coming back to you so quickly! It's nasty west again but this time its about a credit card account. I have been paying this account off slowly and not missed any payments. The reduced payments started off at £5 a month about 5 years ago and have slowly crept up. Last year they told me to pay £38 per month which I was doing (reluctantly) But now after filling in another i'o form I offered them £20 per month because of rent rises food going up etc. They got back to me asking for £47 per month because they said I should pay an equal percentage of my money going to debts to each company i owe. I pay £10pm to one, £22 pm to another just going with what has been asked for and seemed reasonable. The thing is after May, I will be losing about £320 per month in tax credits and child benefit when my daughter leaves full time education so i have no idea what i'll do then never mind having to pay more per month. Any ideas i will be grateful for.
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It is for you to TELL THEM what YOU will pay, NOT the other way round. make the offer of £20 (which is very very generous) in writing, if they refuse, just pay it anyway, they will not take any action against you as they will be ridiculed in court.

 

Have they sent you a copy of your CCA for this alleged debt? What about all the others?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi, Thanks for the superfast reply, you guys are brill. I was thinking about the CCA and looked at all the stuff I had from NW about the loan but found nothing about the credit card in that . Do you think I should ask for one? For all I know, they may not have a signed agreement as it seems the loan people don't. Although I must admit ,these credit card people seem a bit more on the mark. The other debts I have don't seem to be a problem, they have not been aggressive and seem to leave me alone to just pay them a small amount each month. 2 of them are almost paid off now (TG) . I did make the £20 offer in writing on the I/O form but they refused it and say that they want £47.19 per month for the next 6 months after which a full review of financial situation will be required and with this arrangement no interest will be charged. Should i default on any monthly repayments they will place account in hands of external DCA without warning or delay. Nice.

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Yeah well their puerile letter is all bluff and bluster, they seem to think that by sounding aggressive they somehow have the upper hand when in actual fact they are lucky they breathe the same air!

 

If it is for a credit card, and these have already rocked the boat and are getting greedy, then a CCA request won't hurt at all, it will at least send them the message that maybe they should have accepted your first offer and been happy.

When was the card taken out? Pre 2007?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi, Not absolutely sure but have found a letter dated April 2006 when I was offering to pay £1 per month to them so the card must have been taken out either in 2004 or 2005 , definately could not have been later than 2005.

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CCA request then HH,

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.

£1 postal order, send recorded OR 1st class and obtain proof of posting.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Thanks for that, will send off my postal order soon as. In the meantime I have a direct debit set up for the £37 per month that I've been paying and its due to go out on the 10th of April. They obviously expect that to be changed to the £48 this time. What would be the best thing to do, Change it to £20 or cancel direct debit altogether?

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Thanks for that, will send off my postal order soon as. In the meantime I have a direct debit set up for the £37 per month that I've been paying and its due to go out on the 10th of April. They obviously expect that to be changed to the £48 this time. What would be the best thing to do, Change it to £20 or cancel direct debit altogether?

 

 

Hi Hippy! I hope you're in fine form! I'm sure Bazooka and others will be along soon, but may I just mention that a direct debit is a very bad idea. I would cancel this immediately! I would also withold any payment until you get the CCA back. If you really want to pay something I would pay £1 maximum. This is a non priority debt, you have other issues to contend with, such as rent, council tax etc.

 

Just remember, the odd magic mushroom now and again never did anyone any harm!

 

Best wishes

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OK the direct debit should be cancelled immediately, how long have they got to reply to your CCA request?

 

IMO it would be a bad pre-emptive strike to stop payment if they are still within the time limit laid down, the choice is yours, but if they do come up with the goods, then no payment at all would not look good if it got to the legal stage.

So if you don't want to pay them THEIR chosen amount, cancel the DD and pay them £1.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi all, I sent for the CCA and have given them the time to get back to me but so far have heard nothing from them. I sent the postal order 1st class with proof of posting and have kept the receipt. Do I have to send them another letter now? If so, what do I say? Thanks.

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Well if "Helpful banking" have failed to supply you with your CCA request, then the "FAILED" letter is the next step, along with reciprocating their childish attitude and ignore them. Open up their own complaints procedure with the sole intent of exhausting it so you can then escalate your complaint.

Once again 2nd class, and obtain "Proof of posting"

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi all, I sent the ' failed to comply' letter to nasty west by recorded delivery. Unfortunately, this morning I received a letter from them containing everything I had asked for including a signed copy of the agreement (ho hum) It is late getting to me, passed the 12+2 days on Friday last week. Should I now concentrate on offering them less per month ( I will actually be getting much less income in about 2 months as my daughter leaves full time education so I will lose child benfit and child tax credits, probably be about 280 ponds per month worse off.) Or do I keep up the in dispute thing? Thanks for all your help so far.

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Without sight of the docs they sent you it would be impossible to advise. The 'in dispute' argument has now gone as they have complied to a certain degree, if you can scan & post the docs on here, then others will be able to advise, but PLEASE ensure yo remove ALL identification from the docs, bar codes ref numbers etc.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi, having tried and failed miserably, i cannot seem to scan it properly. I scan but cannot copy and paste it to here, sorry. Am expecting a letter from NW to say account not in dispute after all (although they were late) My only idea is to tell them my money is going down and make another offer. Does that sound right? Thanks again for all your help.

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Is that all of it??

 

If that is all they have sent you then you can reply with this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?415-POSSIBLE-Letter-when-a-questionable-agreement-application-is-sent.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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