Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.

[egg-sterminator]

can you name and shame the solictiors involved?

Hi Baggio to be fair to solicitor he is under the cmc's barrister and in all other cases professorgbr has with them has been quite good, unlike my solicitor who has had 2 cases of mine for 10 months and not even issued . Good work by the way Baggio you helped keep festive spirits high !

[seriously fed up]

The humbleman case makes the whole of this and every other thread on the site meaningless.

 

If a judge can pass judgement on the 'balance of probabilities' what hope is there for any of us?

 

I am shocked and appalled that we live in a supposed democracy and this type of activity goes on inside a court room.

 

I find it hard to believe this can happen, it beggars belief.

 

Working my way back here

yes it does beggar belief, BUT

 

1. it was a county court case, so not the same implications as at High Court
   
2. it was the Judge lottery
   
3. it looks as if humbleman is going to appeal this disgraceful decision and get it put right
   

Sadly you are quite right about the use of balance of probability. The CCA seems to me to be quite clear. Do they have a enforceable agreement and the answer to that was no they couldnt prove it. The burden of proof was on the lender and to show the agreement was enforceable. You should have a read at the judgement - post 413 on the thread. Disgraceful prejudice right from the start.

[lilly white]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/130101-humbleman-hfc-weightmans-court-24.html

 

please read this any help would be apppp.......

[Baggio]

Hi Baggio to be fair to solicitor he is under the cmc's barrister and in all other cases professorgbr has with them has been quite good, unlike my solicitor who has had 2 cases of mine for 10 months and not even issued . Good work by the way Baggio you helped keep festive spirits high !

 

thanks mate.

 

the reason the solicitor you are with has not even issued will be down to a funding issue i'd wager.

 

there are very few firms out there who are actually fully funded to fight cases.

[Baggio]

I thought so but I was wrong - the claimant turned up with the wrong T & C and won, its unbelievable. You will find the thread in new posts.

 

humbleman needs help Baggio if you have any ideas.

 

pedross, i will check the thread out.. was he LIP?

 

i personally cannot encourage anybody to fight the banks as LIP... you will get roasted.

[the_shadow]

pedross, i will check the thread out.. was he LIP?

 

i personally cannot encourage anybody to fight the banks as LIP... you will get roasted.

 

Alas, most people dont have the money to pay for a barrister otherwise they'd pay the debt

 

S.

[Baggio]

Alas, most people dont have the money to pay for a barrister otherwise they'd pay the debt

 

S.

 

Shadow... come on fella, there are options out there that will cover this for you.

 

I know they are hated on here.. but a proper CMC, with a fully funded solictiors practice would be very useful in this instance.

 

I don't buy the LIP process of just following 100% advice on a forum... its far too risky, the banks are now sending in their top guns to fight LIP's in court... i can assure you they don't even contemplate that thought when they are coming up against the same consumer... aided by a CMC and their legal firepower.

 

I will point out again, i am not connected to any CMC or have any kind of affiliation with any CMC.

[Basil Fawlty]

Baggio, can you recommend any good CMC's?

After reading some of the things that have happened lately, I really dont feel confident about being a LIP, when the day comes.

 

What are likely to be the costs involved, and can they be covered by insurance?

 

BF

[Baggio]

Baggio, can you recommend any good CMC's?

After reading some of the things that have happened lately, I really dont feel confident about being a LIP, when the day comes.

 

What are likely to be the costs involved, and can they be covered by insurance?

 

BF

 

I can't but there are plenty out there to choose from.

 

You need to do some real digging when speaking to them, ask them to provide some proof of the sols they use and ask them how they are funded and what type of ATE cover they have.

 

If they are real and serious they will answer your questions and provide any documents you request.. if at any time they get hot under the collar from the questions.. quickly put the phone down and NEVER call them again.

 

Move on to the next one.

[angry cat]

Alas, most people dont have the money to pay for a barrister otherwise they'd pay the debt

 

S.

 

Public Access Route, Shadow!

[angry cat]

Find A Barrister - what's public access - Barristers offering legal advice and services, find lawyers, public direct access barrister, law, law firm, compensation, solicitor, legal claim, litigation barrister.

[the_shadow]

Public Access Route, Shadow!

 

yep thats a cheaper route but it still requires funds.

 

pro bono barristers willing to take cases uk wide?

 

 

S.

[UK26]

subs

[oilyrag]

removed

Edited January 27, 2010 by oilyrag
advised

[Signature]

Baggio, can you recommend any good CMC's?

After reading some of the things that have happened lately, I really dont feel confident about being a LIP, when the day comes.

 

What are likely to be the costs involved, and can they be covered by insurance?

 

Basil, I am a mortgage broker who has finally found a cmc to recommend to my clients. I have done an enormous amount of work looking for a suitable one, that does not charge upfront, is more than adequately funded and has all the ATE insurance you could possibly need. If you want, I will mail you a copy of their T & Cs.

[angry cat]

Hi Baggio, Hi Shadow,

 

Interesting to read comments about professional help. I am very wary of CMCs per se. A lot of them carry adverts for financial institutions on their websites etc. However after being warned off by the medics from doing it on my own ( get rid of the stress or die probably tomorrow warning) I found a firm of solicitors after a lot of heart searching and research, swallowed my pride and asked for help. The road has been rocky and the relationship a little unpleasant even with them. However:

 

1. They will not issue proceedings. As per the general advice on this site, the best chance of success is to be the defendant.

2. The usual drivel arrived even to them from the s78 and SAR's. Not one usable legal document!! (one SAR was denied outright even to them)

3.The creditor was told in no uncertain terms, by them, if you have a case then go to court, as high as you like.

4. We have it in writing that a vigourous, "whatever it takes defence" will be mounted at no further cost to ourselves.

5. The banks are getting their act together, whether it is actually legal or not and LIP's will face increasing difficulty.

6. I have a stock of solicitors letters to serve on anyone foolish enough to knock the door on behalf of the alleged creditor. By the way you are only an "alleged debtor" once the account is in dispute and they have to then prove their claim in a court of law it would seem.

 

It has actually cost us less than one month's payments on our alleged debts, which on the paperwork supplied do not exist (foundations in law, you may not profit from unlawful/criminal activity for one).

 

 

As an aside from all this and I know that more knowledgable caggers will already know but it may be worth mentioning, your legal representatives become your "Appointed Representatives" Therefore under Section 2.8 c & d of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines all of the dca/HFO/Mercers/Calders et al type activity becomes unfair business practices if they continue to contact you direct. Clearly calling into question their fitness to hold a credit licence, in Mercers/Calders case the Barclays Bank plc credit licence.

 

 

For those who don't know:- It is an unfair business practice to:

 

2.8 c. refuse to deal with appointed or authorised third parties such as CAB, independent advice centres, or money advisors.

 

2.8 d. to continue contacting debtors direct and bypassing their appointed representatives.

 

Hope this adds a little fuel and warmth to the fire.

 

regards

oilyrag

 

Oilyrag, I totally agree with your post and have driven back three by using similar means.

 

The stress levels must be taken into account also;

ones emotions can come into play and there is no room for emotions!

 

Solicitors and Barristers look at the issues with a cold heart;

they determine the best and strongest route for one to take.

 

I have been repeatedly told:

by QC: wait for them to come after you."

 

Therefore, if one decides to seek help through a Consumer Credit Law solicitor or,

by taking the Public Access route, one will at least have been given sound legal opinion(s) re: ones case(s).

 

Banks and DCA's will play with the LIP but they think twice about fencing with a member of the Law Society...

[oilyrag]

removed

Edited January 27, 2010 by oilyrag
advised

[RoadToRecovery]

Having read many posts recently about judges ignoring the law, I am now desperate to use proper representation but am still confused as to the costs.

 

I am potless, having worked from leaving school until passing forty having paid tens of thousands in tax & hi am now at the bottom of the pile with a load of cc debts, some with no agreements, some with what appear uneanforceable ones, and a couple that I know are kosher.

 

Is there any route I can take to get proper legal representation? What would be the lowest possible entry fee?

[Delfi101]

Add to that - FILE EVERYTHING carefully and keep a diary of events.

[oilyrag]

removed

Edited January 27, 2010 by oilyrag
advised

[brooooooooooce]

Oily

 

Would you be happy to recommend your Solicitor? I am toying with the idea of using one (a firm I have used in another matter). I sent them copies of the paperwork relating to my cards but they sent most of it back saying they wouldn't deal with cards that were taken out over 6 years ago.

 

I too am a little stressed, blood pressure up - if I could pass it all over to someone who knew what they were doing I think I would. But, on the proviso, that we are defending not attacking!

[ruinedbynatwest]

Yes Delfi101, Also part of the guidance from the professionals including envelopes.

 

OR

 

Costs in Story exceeded £1.5 millions - and they did so because the lawyers on all 3 sides, concentrating on common law arguments, were thus able to spin it out interminably - (about 7 years then 2 to Appeal and that was 10 years ago now), to the point where the fundamental Section 8 CCA case (Regulated Agreements) was overlooked - very cleverly, it got lost by the Judges in the common law undergrowth !!

 

And hence my advice to any interested parties -

 

STICK TO THE STATUTE - EVEN WHEN 'AMBUSHED' by the common law-yers - you'll get eaten alive in the undergrowth if you stray off the path for whatever reason, otherwise. It's not ideal - but it's all we LIP's (litigants in person) have.

 

17 Lever Arch files of court docs were created and saved (2 complete copies)(interesting where Natwest wrote sweet FA at the time the debt grew from £1500 to £130k !) !

 

Most of the lawyers stuff (about 10 egg boxes (the big ones)full) just had to go - but I kept the letters from Mr `Bennion and Professor Goode, and Lord Alexander of Weedon (Natwest Chairman) promising it would be proplerly handled (!!!) and a letter from one Gordon Brown who was very interested in the proceedings (1991)

 

I'm glad I kept all that lot - the mice had to eat something !

 

John Story

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

Edited January 13, 2010 by ruinedbynatwest
typos

[reallymadwoman]

Having read many posts recently about judges ignoring the law, I am now desperate to use proper representation but am still confused as to the costs.

 

I am potless, having worked from leaving school until passing forty having paid tens of thousands in tax & hi am now at the bottom of the pile with a load of cc debts, some with no agreements, some with what appear uneanforceable ones, and a couple that I know are kosher.

 

Is there any route I can take to get proper legal representation? What would be the lowest possible entry fee?

 

Whether you get any help with costs through whatever Legal aid is now called depends almost entirely on your income and your assets, e.g. savings. Try and find a solicitor who offers a free initial interview (CAB should have a list of local ones). If nothing else, he could tell you if you have a chance of getting help and since it's free, you might as well try it.

[angry cat]

Thank you AC

 

The harassment does not stop, it reduces a bit but once armed with the legal opinion and backing as we have, it is much easier to blow the phone calls out, ignore letters or even sport with them like turning their own threats back on themselves. We have been told to ignore EVERYTHING, discuss NOTHING. until and unless actual court papers arrive which they will deal with.

 

oilyrag

 

In the same boat, oilyrag.

 

Agree, the harassment continues until they realise you will not tolerate their Unfair Business Practices!

At this point, all becomes eerily silent...the ball is in their court.

 

File everything, envelopes included.

[creditman09]

Hi Baggio, Hi Shadow,

 

Interesting to read comments about professional help. I am very wary of CMCs per se. A lot of them carry adverts for financial institutions on their websites etc. However after being warned off by the medics from doing it on my own ( get rid of the stress or die probably tomorrow warning) I found a firm of solicitors after a lot of heart searching and research, swallowed my pride and asked for help. The road has been rocky and the relationship a little unpleasant even with them. However:

 

1. They will not issue proceedings. As per the general advice on this site, the best chance of success is to be the defendant.

2. The usual drivel arrived even to them from the s78 and SAR's. Not one usable legal document!! (one SAR was denied outright even to them)

3.The creditor was told in no uncertain terms, by them, if you have a case then go to court, as high as you like.

4. We have it in writing that a vigourous, "whatever it takes defence" will be mounted at no further cost to ourselves.

5. The banks are getting their act together, whether it is actually legal or not and LIP's will face increasing difficulty.

6. I have a stock of solicitors letters to serve on anyone foolish enough to knock the door on behalf of the alleged creditor. By the way you are only an "alleged debtor" once the account is in dispute and they have to then prove their claim in a court of law it would seem.

 

It has actually cost us less than one month's payments on our alleged debts, which on the paperwork supplied do not exist (foundations in law, you may not profit from unlawful/criminal activity for one).

 

 

As an aside from all this and I know that more knowledgable caggers will already know but it may be worth mentioning, your legal representatives become your "Appointed Representatives" Therefore under Section 2.8 c & d of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines all of the dca/HFO/Mercers/Calders et al type activity becomes unfair business practices if they continue to contact you direct. Clearly calling into question their fitness to hold a credit licence, in Mercers/Calders case the Barclays Bank plc credit licence.

 

 

For those who don't know:- It is an unfair business practice to:

 

2.8 c. refuse to deal with appointed or authorised third parties such as CAB, independent advice centres, or money advisors.

 

2.8 d. to continue contacting debtors direct and bypassing their appointed representatives.

 

Hope this adds a little fuel and warmth to the fire.

 

regards

oilyrag

 

I think is quite good advice. I am with a CMC and with various solicitors. Some are moving positively and some not. There is one debt that has been purchased by a DCA and this tactic you mentioned is one I will employ in this case to start with.