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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.


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Sorry guys,im still a little confused,hence the name (Dizzy Blonde):D

 

What does a stay actually mean in simple terms, does it suit Cohens more than me, ? or does it just simply mean no progress can be made until the stay is lifted ?or could cohens sneakily go for judgement without me being able to have a trial?

 

Any help much appreciated

 

DB

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judgement passed down 10 am Xmas Eve

 

and a big F*** you to the banks who thought they would get away with blagging "reconstituted" agreements

 

the law is black and white and thank the lord it has been applied correctly.

 

Hope this puts an end to their "creative" Blue Peter antics.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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Hi docman,

 

I'm humbled you took the time to read my lengthy thread and really appreciate your comments. Yes, I've often felt NW's sols have dragged this out for as long as possible. I shall continue with this (along with my other Marbles case) as soon as I possibly can. Thanks again.

x:)x

 

 

 

texanbar & dizzyblonde, I've just read both your threads in full. IMO it appears the other sides solicitors are trying to pull the wool over the court's eyes in texanbar's case and the judge in dizzyblonde's case was looking for a quick way out of court today!

 

The Manchester cases (and please someone correct me if I am wrong here) are to determine whether the bank's etc can get away with 'reconstructing' documents in order to meet requests for documents under Ss77/78 of the Act. If they fail to do so, the claims management companies [CMCs] that are behind the cases in Manchester, and then proceed to get the credit card debt/loan quashed on the grounds that the credit agreement is unenforceable/does not exist. In short, the CMCs are trying to use the Act as a sword to fight the banks who are running scared.

 

Both texanbar and dizzyblonde are defending claims brought by the creditor banks. They have asked for copy agreements as part of the litigation and are using the Act as the shield that it was always intended to be by Parliament to defend themselves.

 

If the judgment in the Manchester cases wasn't expected tomorrow, I would suggest fighting the 'adjournments'. As it is, if the decision is as we have been led to expect, (and with the holiday season) I don't think there is a great deal lost. But if the case in Manchester does go against the banks, then IMO both these cases should be pursued with all vigour. Use the existing sections of the Act (Ss61, 65 & 127(3) if possible) together with the existing case law.

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Sorry guys,im still a little confused,hence the name (Dizzy Blonde):D

 

What does a stay actually mean in simple terms, does it suit Cohens more than me, ? or does it just simply mean no progress can be made until the stay is lifted ?or could cohens sneakily go for judgement without me being able to have a trial?

 

Any help much appreciated

 

DB

 

A stay is a suspension of a case or a suspension of a particular proceeding within a case by order of the court. In your case the reason the Judge would have ordered the 'stay' would probably be becaiuse they felt that a similar case was underway in a higher court.

 

Nobody can do anything sneaky and you will probably know before the stay is lifted who it benefits the most.

 

It would appear that it will be to your benefit at the moment so just keep following the threads.

 

Regards

 

Pedross

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Sorry guys,im still a little confused,hence the name (Dizzy Blonde):D

 

What does a stay actually mean in simple terms, does it suit Cohens more than me, ? or does it just simply mean no progress can be made until the stay is lifted ?or could cohens sneakily go for judgement without me being able to have a trial?

 

Any help much appreciated

 

DB

 

 

DB

 

A stay means that the action is frozen until such a date that the court sets. If there is no date (like here) it is up to one of the parties to make an application to the court to have the stay liftd or unfrozen.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Hope this puts an end to their "creative" Blue Peter antics.

 

Jud

Edited by Josie8

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If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

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not sure if I would be looking forward to an announcement ,... so in reality the consumer is Sr*wed??????/ so does that mean its pointless even starting legal proceedings ,.. and who as the power to scrape the entire 1974 CCA ,..its a complete set up and same we could not group together and get One test case in Europen Court of Human Rights ,.. so if agreement is wrong with brokers fee added to balance and subject to interest over 7 years is fine and I can do nothing , and a secret commission in place , which is classed as a type of bride, I can do nothing ,..then putting restricted and unrestricted credit together as one agreement no terms in place ,..and after paying 25k back over the years ,is it still ok to owe £44k,..loan was only £31k ,... and is it ok to add restricted credit to unrestricted credit to put loan over regulation limit ,.. how can the court expect respect when their are putting 2 fingers up to the consumer and bending the rules to suit ,.. and then remove the whole act which provides that protection ,.. The amount of people who will be stuck for challenging the agreements should protest and highlight what is going on and maybe a good time to put this across as the banks are always in the news lately ,.. and surely their dont expect the consumer to sit back and take it ,... or is this just wishful thinking and we have to take it? well look forward to other peoples views

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Judgment was formmally handed down this afternoon. Regrettably the creditors are to be allowed to reconstitute agreements

 

So in stark contrast to what Baggio was telling us? Who do we believe,i seem to remember you giving out the opposite advise to Baggio when the cases started aswell,im preety new to all this but have to question whos side you are on?

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i have not got a copy of the judgement, but i have spoken directly to a chambers that have got a copy... and the banks did not succeed in their attempts to get away with simply providing updated T&Cs in response to a sec 77/78.

 

the judgement will state they need to disclose a direct link to these T&Cs and the original agreement.... which we all know they will struggle to provide.

 

happy xmas :)

 

So 2 different outcomes to the same case,or am i missreading it?

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not sure if I would be looking forward to an announcement ,... so in reality the consumer is Sr*wed??????/ so does that mean its pointless even starting legal proceedings ,.. and who as the power to scrape the entire 1974 CCA ,..its a complete set up and same we could not group together and get One test case in Europen Court of Human Rights ,.. so if agreement is wrong with brokers fee added to balance and subject to interest over 7 years is fine and I can do nothing , and a secret commission in place , which is classed as a type of bride, I can do nothing ,..then putting restricted and unrestricted credit together as one agreement no terms in place ,..and after paying 25k back over the years ,is it still ok to owe £44k,..loan was only £31k ,... and is it ok to add restricted credit to unrestricted credit to put loan over regulation limit ,.. how can the court expect respect when their are putting 2 fingers up to the consumer and bending the rules to suit ,.. and then remove the whole act which provides that protection ,.. The amount of people who will be stuck for challenging the agreements should protest and highlight what is going on and maybe a good time to put this across as the banks are always in the news lately ,.. and surely their dont expect the consumer to sit back and take it ,... or is this just wishful thinking and we have to take it? well look forward to other peoples views

 

Unfortunately the british way seems to be to lie down and take anything thrown at us without the balls to do anything about it.

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morning all , so which is correct??????? had a terrible sleep after reading above , and can honestly say do not look forward to announcement in anyway shape or form if against consumers ,.. again who would have the power to do this , scrape entire 1974 CCA , would it not be for parliment to decide? and would it not be in news , as this is a big announcement involving £££billion's ,.. a sad day if true ,... hopefully Baggio is correct and wecan continue to enjoy xmas ,..

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The case Carey v Hsbc was mainly over what a creditor needs to do in order to comply with s. 78 request. They are to be allowed to reconstitute agreements. This is also in accordance with the OFT draft guidance which was introduced into evidence. They do not have to provide a photocopy of the application at all.

 

In addition prescribed terms can be overleaf or referred to as attached for agreements pre 2005. This will be a matter of evidence individual to each case

 

I am sorry if this is not what you want to hear. I would confirm that I am not linked to any CMC company

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

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Unfortunately the british way seems to be to lie down and take anything thrown at us without the balls to do anything about it.

 

Then a group action should take place , I for one would donate if anyone was to challenge this in Human rights courts , as we sure still have some rights ,... xmas lights are off

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What a Joke - The law is a ass!

 

The Judges are a Joke

The creditors are all going to give us all a dreadful time now,The Banks all get big bonuses then to top it all they can reconstitute what they like by faking agreements and whatever else they would feel they can.

 

HOW DISGRACEFUL AND UNLAWFUL.

 

YEP - WELCOME 2010.

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The case Carey v Hsbc was mainly over what a creditor needs to do in order to comply with s. 78 request. They are to be allowed to reconstitute agreements. This is also in accordance with the OFT draft guidance which was introduced into evidence. They do not have to provide a photocopy of the application at all.

In addition prescribed terms can be overleaf or referred to as attached for agreements pre 2005. This will be a matter of evidence individual to each case

 

I am sorry if this is not what you want to hear. I would confirm that I am not linked to any CMC company

 

Its always been the case that the prescribed terms need to be in the signature document which would cover both "overleaf" and "attached" in my opinion. But it does mean that any agreements that dont have the prescribed terms and just state refer to t&c supplied separately etc wont now comply in court so the quick reply applications should all now be deemed unenforceable?

 

Oh and just to say I'd be amazed if any of the test cases being heard at present go the consumers way... the tide has well and truly turned towards the bank, they may have been complicit in the irresponsible lending but they are to big to fail, the consumers can fall by the way side it appears :-(

 

S.

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Looking on with interest.

 

I attended the hearing on one of the days and the consensus of most people present was that the arguments put forward by the bank were poor. So i'm suprised to read that the judge is ruling in their favour.

 

If judgment has already been passed down is it possible for anyone to put it up on here?

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Abc

Edited by Josie8

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

court bundles for dummies

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