My Debts & Various DCA's & Letters

[foolishgirl]

The OC will still send statements after a default as the account is not terminated, just in arrears but if they terminate the 'statements' are usually demands to pay up. It depends on the T&Cs if interest etc. accrues.

 

If you need help on individual accounts, suggest you start seperate threads for each in the relevant forum WTWT.

 

BTW it's not a SAR to Experian & co, it's just a credit report that you need to request. Send the appropriate form & fee - the applic. forms for each CRA are on their respective websites.

[willtheywontthey]

Thanks very much... that clears up quite a bit actually.

 

so a credit report is cheaper - thought perhaps a SAR would show up allsorts - then again Experian probably wouldn;t send everything. Thanks will go for the credit report. Am I right to assume though that they do not 'share' the fact I asked for it with other parties unlike if I join??

[willtheywontthey]

just been going through some paperwork... seems I have a mixed bag. Just sticking with this termination issue for now so not making separate threads.

 

Still sending statements:

 

1. RBS - terminated account and now still send statements charging interest but no late fees charged

 

2. Mint (aka RBS) - terminated account and then retracted it (!) -charging late interest + overdraft fee + interest

 

3. Co-operative - terminated account and not charging anything but still sending statements

 

Not sending statements:

 

1. HFC / Marbles - no termination letter that I can find - no statements now for some while.

 

 

Not seeing any distinct pattern here???

[Pinky69]

The DCA usually gets nothing but your name and address, the account number, the type of account - loan, credit card etc - and the amount. If you want any information it's the OC you need to send the SAR to, not the DCA.

Tha DCA can pass the debt back to the OC if they haven't bought it but just been assigned the debt for collection on behalf of the OC.

 

It wasn't you I was referring to above Boo - your letter is fine.

[willtheywontthey]

would an OC ever buy it back from DCA or is it allowed to be 'returned' if it was a 'sold on' debt?

[Pinky69]

No, they wouldn't buy it back because when they sell it, it is written off against tax by the OC. If a DCA buys it and doesn't get payment, they sell it on to another DCA or ask another DCA to collect it for them and the cycle goes on.

[angel_1]

It must come to you and it is considered served if sent by registered post and not returned by the postal service. This must be done before any legal action commences.

 

David

 

hiya David - cashins

 

just to clarify then, this is the first time ive understood that the NOA is considered served if sent by registered post,

 

so if a letter appearing as if it was a NOA was sent in the normal post then we should challenge this?

 

hope this is a helpful question for you too willtheywonthey - sorry to ask on your thread

 

cheers angel x

Edited September 27, 2009 by angel_1

[willtheywontthey]

now worries angel - the more the merrier. I keep thinking I'm pushing it being the only one asking questions (I never have answers!!).

 

The registered post thing is interesting isn't it. Is there a deadline by when they have to send it - they could send it weeks after by registered post otherwise? I think the bit about registered post is in the property act mentioned earlier.

 

I'm asking about the selling it back bit because an OC has sold account to DCA (says DCA) but wrong account number.

 

anyhow now onto does a NOA need to be a certain layout / wording ... or 'by' a certain date or even 'before' a DCA contacts us??

[angel_1]

thank you willtheywontthey

 

the more i read the more i learn but then i learn something that someone else has written in another way and it starts you again asking questions!! lol

 

but hey ho this is the way we must learn all the tricks of the trade as they say

 

have subbed to this thread if ive not mentioned it already

 

laters angel x

[cashins]

Originally Posted by cashins

It must come to you and it is considered served if sent by registered post and not returned by the postal service. This must be done before any legal action commences.

 

David

 

 

just to clarify then, this is the first time ive understood that the NOA is considered served if sent by registered post, and is not returned undelivered by the postal service.

 

so if a letter appearing as if it was a NOA was sent in the normal post then we should challenge this? Depends: If for instance you suddenly get a POC or a Statutory Demand, it may well be to your advantage that you never received an NOA, (hint, hint!)

If the NOA has not been served - the assignment is not completed. If the assignment is not completed the OC still owns the account, Therefore, whoever says they bought it, has no Cause of Action.

Simply - If they can't prove they sent an NOA, (which they can't if they never sent it or they just stuck it in the normal post) BEFORE they started the action, they're stuffed.

 

David

[willtheywontthey]

wow!

 

That's clarified so much and got me thinking again!! Thank you.

 

I'm now starting to think I should NOT write asking for an NOA or even mention it to the DCA who say they bought debt.

 

If the OC still owns it then they can sell it on properly in the future. Is there no comeback for us if they 'sell' the account to a DCA without this NOA?

 

Should the NOA reach us before the DCA writes to us saying the account is now theirs?

 

Thanks for clarifying so much.

[willtheywontthey]

what is 'action'? Would a DCA getting their hands on the account and starting to pursue count as 'action'?

[cashins]

what is 'action'? Would a DCA getting their hands on the account and starting to pursue count as 'action'? Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library.

This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly.

This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks.

17.03.09

 

 

Don't think that is the case.

 

If they go to court however, they have a problem, effectively they are taking action against someone for payment of a debt they don't own - ooops.

 

David

[willtheywontthey]

Thanks and bear with me!

 

so what's the best approach then if no NOA - ignore the new DCA?

 

Should an NOA be sent 'before' contact made by new DCA?

 

Can the OC send an NOA later on?

[cashins]

so what's the best approach then if no NOA - ignore the new DCA?

 

My own experience, with no NOA sent I have ignored the issue and simply CCA'ed the company concerned - I happen to know they will struggle!!

Should an NOA be sent 'before' contact made by new DCA?

 

I think they are supposed to but can in effect be simultaneous.

 

Can the OC send an NOA later on?

 

Now that I am not sure of - hopefully some else can chip in at that point?

 

David

[make them aktiv runners]

1. There is no legal requirement over who sends a NOA. It can be either. 2. Registered post is abosolute proof of delivery. Replying to a DCA quoting a letter which happens to be a NOA is also proof because you have effectively acknowledged receipt. 3. A NOA cannot be dated before the assignment itself takes place. It can however be dated later. Effectively a NOA can be issued several months after a DCA first contacts you. 4. Without a NOA or valid NOA the assignment is not legally binding. You have every right to deal with the known creditor as opposed to DCA. 5. A valid NOA must contain certain basics. Unable to remember exactly what as Spuddy deleted his posts. These are what I recall, date of assignment, amount assigned, assignor, assignee. 6. Assignment can be Equitable or Absolute. Equitable = DCA just doing donkey work. Absolute = DCA fully own and are now creditor, subject to NOA being valid. 7. Equitable assignments can be assigned back to original creditor. Absolute assignments can also be assigned back, in this instance the window of reassigning is usually fixed for a set number of months after which DCA cannot assign back.

[foolishgirl]

 

1. RBS - terminated account and now still send statements charging interest but no late fees charged

 

Depends on the T&Cs re. application of interest after termination

 

2. Mint (aka RBS) - terminated account and then retracted it (!) -charging late interest + overdraft fee + interest

 

They can't terminate & then undo it without your consent - I assume you didn't consent. Therefore they can't charge fees etc. but may be able to charge interest depending on T&cs. Suggest you start a thread on this one.

 

3. Co-operative - terminated account and not charging anything but still sending statements

 

Are you continuing to make payments? That would account for the statements otherwise I would forget it until they start to get heavy.

 

Not sending statements:

 

1. HFC / Marbles - no termination letter that I can find - no statements now for some while.

 

Have you maybe moved house & not told them? Are you sure there is a balance? If you do not acknowledge the debt, after 6 years it is statute barred.

 

 

FG

[PriorityOne]

Absolute assignments can also be assigned back, in this instance the window of reassigning is usually fixed for a set number of months after which DCA cannot assign back.

 

I thought this must be the case several months after one of mine was sold and then found its way back to the OC some time later....who simply remind me of a fictitious amount on their books from time to time. My SAR paperwork shows that the account was returned to zero by the OC and sold on.... and I also have paperwork from some numpty at OC headquarters defending the whole, sorry procedure... lol

 

No-one gets any money though...

[landy_alert]

Hi everyone:)

 

I have a quick question please if you don't mind me butting in and apologies if I've missed this point somewhere!

 

On a NOA which is the relevant date for assignment -

 

a) the date the account was assigned?

 

b) the date the account became live with the DCA?

 

We have a DN with a remedy date of 23/2/09 and a NOA (sent regular post on 3/3/09) which states that the account was assigned on 18/2/09 and became live on 25/2/09 - ie, the assignment date is 5 days before the DN remedy date, but the account became live with the DCA 2 days after the DN remedy date.

 

Many thanks and apologies for the hijack!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[vint1954]

Hi Landy,

 

You could reasonably expect it to be effective from the date they sent you the letter. They are after all informing you that it has been assigned. There may be a couple of days wriggle room for service, but you will have that date also as you would have signed for the registered letter,;)

 

Does the letter give you a date in the future when the account will be assigned?

 

Does the letter actually state we have sold, or we have assigned?

 

I guess by your questions, the OC has assigned in the default period:D

[vint1954]

Landy,

 

How do you know when it became live with the DCA? If it is not in the NOA, it is irrelevant as far as you are concerned, if you are not privvy to their process up front.

[landy_alert]

Hi Vint and apologies to willtheywontthey for this hijack of their thread:)

 

Thank you for your comments. To answer the points you raised -

 

The DN was dated 6/2/09 (received 10/2/09 but envelope not kept back then unfortunately)

 

The remedy date for the DN was 23/2/09

 

Then we received an envelope containing what appears to be a NOA (I believe). The actual contents of the envelope were 2 letters both dated 3/3/09 -

 

1) First one from the OC 'please accept this letter as confirmation that your outstanding balance has been assigned to......'

 

2) Second one from the DCA 'please accept this letter as official notification that **** has purchased your account and all rights, interests and claims in respect of all amounts outstanding on this account as of 18th February 2009'

 

This second letter continues 'your account became active with **** on 25th February 2009.'

 

We have the envelope that these two letters came in and it was normal mail, not registered - 2nd class I believe as there is a large '2' on the envelope.

 

What I'm trying to establish is whether the fact that the account was assigned before the DN remedy date is the important factor, or if it is the date it became active that counts?

 

Most other NOAs I have seen seem to only mention one date - the assignment date, not the date the account became active as well, so I had assumed they were one and the same = ours seems to disprove this.

 

Once again apologies for asking these questions here, but the answers may be of interest to the OP and anyone else in a similar situation;)

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[willtheywontthey]

no need to apologise whatsoever.. this thread is about NOAs and not 'my' NOAs - all relevant and I'm learning along the way although there does seem to be a big area which needs clarifying don't you think regards these documents / processes.

[landy_alert]

no need to apologise whatsoever.. this thread is about NOAs and not 'my' NOAs - all relevant and I'm learning along the way although there does seem to be a big area which needs clarifying don't you think regards these documents / processes.

 

Hi willtheywontthey:)

 

Thank you - yes I agree totally and believe that very often these companies will deliberately muddy the waters to confuse and befuddle us in the hope we will slink away totally bewildered/be persuaded to hand over our cash without questioning.............thankfully the knowledge we are gaining here is empowering us to stand against them:D

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[cashins]

Now we have got some NOA specialist jumping in, a question.

 

I am aware that if a DCA, having bought a debt, then issues a POC before sending an NOA, (or can't prove they did), this can derail the action.

 

What I don't now is, if that is the case, is there anything to stop them withdrawing that action, serving a NOA and then starting another action?

 

David