My Debts & Various DCA's & Letters

[angry cat]

Taken in isolation;

 

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors oe third parties is considered to be oppressive.

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practice: a b c d e f g h i j;

 

 

each case must be considered on its own merits;

 

The OFT is not aware that an offer of receiving payment by credit card breaches any regulations."

 

Love the wording, 'an offer of receiving payment by credit card'!

 

AC

[angry cat]

and an amazingly fast and almost detailed reply from OFT on this issue below:

The use of a previously agreed credit limit or facility would not appear to be further borrowing or an extension of existing borrowing. Taken in isolation, accepting a debit or credit card payment would not be considered to be an unfair business practice. That said, each case must be considered on its own merits and the OFT would consider other factors such as whether consumers were being asked to exceed a previously agreed credit limit or facility or where the debt collector was applying unreasonable pressure on debtors (see paragraphs 2.5-2.6 of the OFT's Debt Collection Guidance).

 

The OFT would not normally consider that contacting or writing to a debtor to request payment would amount to undue pressure, although as noted above, each case must be considered on its own merits.

The OFT is not aware that an offer of receiving payment by credit card breaches any regulations.

 

 

That statement should make for an interesting discussion on this.

 

Could you please scan and post up the reply, please.

[clemma]

Gotta love the OFT haven't ya

[angry cat]

Gotta love the OFT haven't ya

 

LOL, Semantics!

 

Obviously, they cannot/will not give a straght answer;

as every case differs...

what do these bluddy civil servants do all day?

 

The Consumer, may well come back and bite them on the Derriere, come next May!

 

AC

[Kraken1]

I just got a standard response back - can't intervene, published guidance, here's a list of advice agencies etc. . I take it that you found your email add for 'm'? Do you want to circulate a little wider?

 

AC - based on the answer I got, the above seems really quite straight and fairly clear. Not sure what you mean about next May as the oft is part of the civil service and therefore not elected.

[Kraken1]

Oh... and I should mention that I tol.... actually no. Doesn't matter....

[angry cat]

I just got a standard response back - can't intervene, published guidance, here's a list of advice agencies etc. . I take it that you found your email add for 'm'? Do you want to circulate a little wider?

 

AC - based on the answer I got, the above seems really quite straight and fairly clear. Not sure what you mean about next May as the oft is part of the civil service and therefore not elected.

 

Kraken1, the purported response from the OFT is far from: "quite straight and fairly clear".

 

Yes, the OFT is part of the 'civil service' and not elected. However, please bear in mind that we have a non-elected PM!

Undoubtedly, the Gov. will change, as will the Ministers & MP's...the electorate are, not happy and (they) cannot toy with the electorate!

 

Please do not misread/twist my words as argumetative, they are above board; just plain and simple words.

 

The subjects/citizens of this country are tired of, civil servants etc., answering questions with semantics and/or, a question????

 

Personally, my view remains the same.

 

Why, don't you email the OFT yourself about: the lateral of members thinking?

 

AC

[angry cat]

I seem to recall somebody posting a very detailed response from OFT on an issue last week or so (I keep losing good posts on here despite subbing.. maybe I sub to too many). Each and every time I ask OFT a question I either get the standard reply or I get a copy/paste job of an existing regulation or guideline. Last time I was asking about phone calls to a neighbour and whether doing this intiially without a. writing to me or b. checking with oc /files or even c. electoral roll was acceptable. All I got was that the guidelines did not specify this! Honestly - what are they actually for?

 

Is there a special 'hot line' or email to the 'M' type person at OFT???

 

 

Anyhow - I have asked them about the cerdit card issue and definition of borrowing / furter borrowing so will await and see. It's quite surprising nobody else has had a clear answer on this before to be honest?

 

and less personal attacks is good.

 

WW, when did you ask the OFT, the following:

 

by WW:

 

"I have asked them about the cerdit card issue and definition of borrowing / furter borrowing so will await and see. It's quite surprising nobody else has had a clear answer on this before to be honest?"

 

Please post up your actual letter/email, minus of any personal details, of course.

Together, with a scan of the OFT'S reply to the above query/question about: the definition of borrowing/further borrowing.

 

AC

[willtheywontthey]

The reply I got is the red font above exactly as I received it. I actually only asked it 1-2 days ago... amazingly quick response to be honest although not sure if whoever replies to OFT email inquiries is authorized to make such judgments? I have nothing to add from OFT as that is all it was.

[willtheywontthey]

I just got a standard response back - can't intervene, published guidance, here's a list of advice agencies etc. . I take it that you found your email add for 'm'? Do you want to circulate a little wider?

 

 

I replied to their standard reply to my initial concern. No special email.

[Kraken1]

Good on you AC. Be happy. We are all entitled to our opinions.

 

Why, don't you email the OFT yourself about: the lateral of members thinking?

 

Huh?

[Kraken1]

I replied to their standard reply to my initial concern. No special email.

 

So you got what I got, and just went back again? Sneaky. I think you've been hanging around dcas too long...

[willtheywontthey]

That was the best English sentence that ever came out of my......... not bad going for the old 'learn English or else' brigade.

[diddydicky]

we cant "quote" the OFT to DCA's as law when it suits us and then denegrate them when they say something we don't agree with.

 

At the end of the day, the response given to the particular circumstance was IMO the only response that they could have given,

 

they have however "left the door open" to further complaints if something more substantive is reported to them which suggests the dca or OC is abusing their position

[ODC]

Well typical of all government departments a straight uneqvicoble answer is never given. On the face of it it seems ok for the DCA to ask for payment by Credit Card providing the dont pressurise you to extend your borrowing. No doubt it will take someone to make a formal complaint to get a contrary answer.

[diddydicky]

exactly

[clemma]

I got exactly the same response from the OFT (today) as willtheywontthey - so it looks like it's just a standard reply

[Kraken1]

still, at least it's cleared it up. Not a breach of the guidelines.

I think someone put forward that opinion earlier;).

 

Not sure why I wasn't special enough to get it though?

 

Also seems fairly straightforward to me, fairly clear compared to the normal stuff.

 

The use of a previously agreed credit limit or facility would not appear to be further borrowing or an extension of existing borrowing.

 

> use of overdraft and credit cards to pay debts - not 'further borrowing'

 

Taken in isolation, accepting a debit or credit card payment would not be considered to be an unfair business practice.

 

> accepting a payment by cc is not an unfair practice

 

That said, each case must be considered on its own merits and the OFT would consider other factors such as whether consumers were being asked to exceed a previously agreed credit limit or facility or where the debt collector was applying unreasonable pressure on debtors (see paragraphs 2.5-2.6 of the OFT's Debt Collection Guidance).

 

> it might be unfair if you paid them and went over a credit limit, or had to extend a credit limit to do it, or if they applied unreasonable pressure in doing so. I'm taking this to mean the stuff mentioned in 2.5-2.6 of the OFT's Debt Collection Guidance.

 

It is not 'pressure' to

 

'contact or write to a debtor to request payment' unless there is other stuff going on as well, like that mentioned in 2.5-2.6 of the OFT's Debt Collection Guidance.

 

 

The OFT is not aware that an offer of receiving payment by credit card breaches any regulations.

 

This seems a bit out of context, so not sure what they are getting at, other than the obvious.

[angry cat]

Here is an interesting twist in the tale:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/207482-dca-charges-making-payments.html

[willtheywontthey]

If the DCA have not bought the debt (they mention they will ask for CCA from their 'clients') - what I would liek to know is:

 

1. Should they have had a CCA before acting on behalf of their clients?

 

2. If they do not send me a CCA within 12 days (12+2 - working days or not?) then am I right to assume the DCA should not legally carry out further action and send it back to clients?

 

 

thanks

[kurvaface]

That's what you would expect.

 

I reckon most DCAs don't care whether there is a CCA or not and just opererate on the probability that the average person pays up.

[Pinky69]

1) They assume there is an agreement until such times as it is proved there isn't one. Once they know for sure there isn't one, then they should cease all collection activity on the account and pass it back to the creditor.

 

2) Once the 12 + 2 working days is up, then they should put all collection activity on hold until an agreement is produced. Some pass the account back at that stage, some hang on to see if an agreement turns up. It all depends what is agreed between the DCA and the creditor.

[NailPost]

In any event if they fail to come up with the required documentation within the statutory time period the matter falls into dispute.

 

The only way to resolve that dispute is to come up with the documents; send the whole thing back to the original creditor or bury the file.

 

Whatever way the debt collector chooses from the above three it is not allowed to chase the debt or add interest or charges and it would be a very foolish collector who starts legal action. It is arguable they have no legal right to be filing any infiormation about you with the credit agencies, adverse or not.

 

One way to look at it is no paperwork = no debt.

 

Oh and one other thing. They know the rules and are expected, by the terms of their consumer credit licence, to abide by them. You don't have to do anything but a short note informing them they are in default will let them know you also know the rules.

[willtheywontthey]

So since stopping payments on about 4 credit cards I hardly get any posts.

 

Before I stopped I used to get several phone calls a day, several automatic letters saying pay us now............ etc

 

Now I hardly get one letter a week.

 

No phone calls - even after Truecall.

 

I was thinking it was all just coincidence with the many complaints I did previous to the 'default' situation - FOS and ICO in many cases - all the phone calls stopping.

 

Since the stress of all the late payments letters, fees and threats became too mch and my stopping paments (no valid cca, penalty charges or just refusing to stop phone calls etc) I have ony had a cople of DCA letters. As stressful as these were I coped ths far (thanks all on CAG) but am unsure if this is just a prelude to smething worse?

 

I still have one DCA on m back but they agreed to stop phoning wihtin 3 days and put a temporary (unlmited) stop on collection. Since then I have cca'd them to no avail... SARd them and that is incomplete and have also asked them for complaints procedure. Nothing back whatsoever. Why?

 

Also a couple of accounts (OCs) which stated many weeks ago that one account was unenforceable and the other had been terminated without a DN etc have not responded to my complaints / concerns. They wrote / phoned almost daily until I stopped paying and complained and they defaulted me as well). Now nothing at all.

 

Why am I getting less stress and hassle from not paying them anything? Is this a temporary blip and are they just waiting to sell the debts on (total 4 credit cards = 1 at 3k, 1 at 6 k and 2 at about 9 k). Does the fact the amounts are high mean they use different tactics? Most debts remain paid now for periods of 3 - 6 months.

 

I am afraid of relaxing or enjoing life from day to day because from experience once I do this all hell breaks loose

[IdaInFife]

don't you know they have to check their dictionary thoroughly when they get the letters then pass to someone esle to see if they can decipher them.

 

because they try and harass those most if they think they can get away with it.

 

relax, you are a memeber of cag.

 

what's the worse that could happen?

 

you have to start making nominal payments so just chill i'm sure it wonlt be too long before you get one or two pleading letters

 

ida x