Big Motoring World fault within 2 days from purchase

[APT]

Hey There,

First of all I want to say a big thanks from everyone you helped so far, i have gone though most of the issues specific to Big Motoring World here and seen the dedication and support of the team.

On Sunday 3rd of March (2 days ago..)

I bought a BMW from Big Motoring World in Peterborough Werrington,

this morning Engine Malfunction Light (EML) or check engine light went on.

I immediately drove down to Big Motoring World Wimbledon which is closest to where I live.

I demanded for them to check the car and tell me what the issue is,

they have repeatedly turned me down and said that they cannot check the car if I don't have an appointment.

After a couple of hours and a few management levels a manager came down and pulled me out of the showroom (so other customers cannot hear the situation) to only tell me again they can do nothing about it and that next available appointment is close to 26th of March!!

After some persuasion one of his mechanics came out and picked up the car to check what the issue may be. He then informed me that it is a NOX sensor & oxygen sensors that need replacement and that they will only be able to do the fitment on March 26th.

While I drove back home I started noticing a loud and "alarming" clicking and popping sound that seems to be coming either from suspension or axle ( I assume as I am not a mechanic..).

I also called their warranty team to let them know that I booked a diagnostics test for next week in a BMW dealership, when I mentioned that to them they said "we strongly advise you to not go in a BMW dealership as they don't like working with us..."

I understand this is mainly because warranty covers up to £75/hr labour cost while dealerships would charge more than that... In any case I do have an appointment and earliest availabilty is next Wednesday 13th of March.

With what I have experienced in the first 2 days of owning the car I don't want to keep it as it seems to be problematic and

I have already emailed them requesting what the steps are to kickstart the return process... from what I read in other topics here I expect them to say they cannot accept the return and try to hassle me..

Therefore tomorrow I plan to send them the below email and also a signed version of it via post,

I have got the below from a different topic and made changes to reflect my situation

Quote

 

Dear Big Motoring World,

Notice of Rejection Vehicle Registration XXX

I am writing to formally assert my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding the car that I purchased from your dealership on 03/03/2023, for which I paid a total of £25899 (Vehicle Price £24200, Buyers Fee £249.17, Gard X £416, 67, Warranty 12 months £750.01, VAT £283.15).

Within the initial 30 days of ownership, a significant defect has materialised in the vehicle, specifically related to its NOX and oxygen sensors as identified by Big Motoring Company Wimbledon and also a very alarming clicking noise when the car turns.

Upon noticing the engine the Engine Management Light (EML) on Tuesday morning 5th of March I immediately drove down to my closes Big Motoring World branch in Wimbledon, upon looking at the car the engineer of the above mentioned branch suggested that there is an issue with the NOX and oxygen sensors and these will need to be replaced. Later the same day I did also notice a very loud and alarming clicking and popping sound when I turn the car.

Under the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, it is explicitly stated that goods must be accurately described, fit for their intended purpose, and of satisfactory quality. Given that your dealership is in breach of this contractual obligation, and considering that the defect materialised in the car within the first 30 days of ownership, I therefore am rejecting the car and requesting a refund in accordance to my statutory rights.  

Please will you respond without any delay, clearly outlining the process for receiving a refund and the arrangements for facilitating the return of the vehicle.

As required by the Consumer Rights Act I expect Big Motoring World to take full responsibility for coordinating the return of the vehicle. 

I trust that you will handle this matter with the seriousness it deserves, acknowledging my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and promptly addressing the refund and return of the vehicle in accordance with the law.

Yours sincerely,

 

I would please like to get your thoughts and advise on the matter and your recommendation on how to proceed,

I did have to spend time today away from my work and seems that same will happen next week if I get the car to the BMW dealership for an independent investigation (do feel this is required and will help with my situation)? If not I can cancel as it will cost a significant amount of money and time.

 

The car is a BMW X3 XDRIVE20D M SPORT MHEV 2020 model with 60229 when I bought the car (now it has 60368)

Because we bought the car we also rented a parking space in our residential building that costs £250 per month, which means it will not be utilised as I dont plan to drive the car until I know more and also if Big Motoring World takes the car back until we get another car..

Sorry for the long email and I really appreciate any support and guidance.

sorry forgot to mention that car was paid in full by bank transfer at point of sale, 50% by my account and 50% from my partners account.

 

Sorry my bad

we paid by two cards splitting 50/50 and not a bank transfer, disregard the above.

A few more info, the car has a valid MOT and had a service at 57k miles 10/2023 and when we bought it had 60k miles

[dx100uk]

letter looks fine to me.

await @BankFodder you've a good few days yet before it needs sending and i know he is busy for a day or two.

 

[BankFodder]

The letter is fine – but frankly given the reputation of this company Big Motoring World I would turn into a letter of claim and that means that at the end, I would put a paragraph such as:

Quote

I'm aware of your reputation for stalling and attempting to frustrate customers.
As indicated above, the fault has been confirmed by your own mechanic.
If you do not make appropriate arrangements to collect the vehicle and to refund me in full when 14 days then I shall begin a County Court claim against you and without any further notice.

Please note that you should not attempt to impose upon me any duties of confidentiality or without prejudice without my prior written agreement.

It is unfortunate that you have tried to invoke the warranty because I suppose that Big Motoring World could try to say that you have accepted a repair then rather than a rejection.
Of course they would be completely wrong to do so. But I'm just putting your notice that this is the kind of thing that could happen.
I suggest you write the warranty company. – Everything in writing – cancel the appointment. Tell them that you are revoking the warranty and that you want to know what the arrangements are for reimbursing you.

As you have rejected the vehicle you certainly shouldn't drive it they could easily start to say that you are responsible for various faults and that they would want further inspections. However it is extremely helpful that you have. To identify defect themselves.

Frankly I expect that they will put their hands up in this case but of course keep us informed.

The threat of legal action is not a bluff. If you aren't prepared to take it then don't make the threat and send your letter without the proposed paragraph.

However, if they don't solve the problem within 14 days then I don't really have you have any choice. Your chances of success on the basis of what you say are probably better than 99% – but I expect that the chances that they will put their hands up are about the same

 

In terms of your ancillary losses, get the return and the refund sorted out first and then we will deal with those afterwards.

 

[APT]

Thanks and I really appreciate the support here,

a bit more context

when I visited yesterday Big Motoring Company I did tell them that I want to return the car,

they said they identified the fault and ordered the parts but I did not agree to fitment neither an appointment.

I told them I want to return the car and they gave me a card with an email address so I can start the process..

Just for clarity the appointment I have next week is with BMW (car company) not Big Motoring World.

I've rewritten the letter based on your feedback and it looks as per below,

we don't want to keep the car as its clear that it has faults, therefore we prepared to go down the legal way.

Do you suggest sending the letter without it and then depending on their response we include or send it as is now?

Thanks again and I appreciate the support.

Quote

Notice of Rejection Vehicle Registration XXX

Letter of Claim

I am writing to formally assert my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding the car that I purchased from your dealership on 03/03/2023, for which I paid a total of £25899 (Vehicle Price £24200, Buyers Fee £249.17, Gard X £416, 67, Warranty 12 months £750.01, VAT £283.15).

I'm also writing to put your notice that if you do not accept the rejection and organise collection and refund of my money within 14 days that I will start a legal action against you.

Within the initial 30 days of ownership, a significant defect has materialised in the vehicle, specifically related to its NOX and oxygen sensors as identified by Big Motoring Company Wimbledon and also a very alarming clicking noise when the car turns.

Upon noticing the engine the Engine Management Light (EML) on Tuesday morning 5th of March I immediately drove down to my closes Big Motoring World branch in Wimbledon, upon looking at the car the engineer of the above mentioned branch suggested that there is an issue with the NOX and oxygen sensors and these will need to be replaced. Later the same day I did also notice a very loud and alarming clicking and popping sound when I turn the car.

Under the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, it is explicitly stated that goods must be accurately described, fit for their intended purpose, and of satisfactory quality. Given that your dealership is in breach of this contractual obligation, and considering that the defect materialised in the car within the first 30 days of ownership, I therefore am rejecting the car and requesting a refund in accordance to my statutory rights.  

Please will you respond without any delay, clearly outlining the process for receiving a refund and your the arrangements for collecting facilitating the return of the vehicle.

As required by the Consumer Rights Act I expect Big Motoring World to take full responsibility for coordinating the return of the vehicle. 

I trust that you will handle this matter with the seriousness it deserves, acknowledging my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and promptly addressing the refund and return of the vehicle in accordance with the law.

Post my vehicle purchase I was made aware of your reputation for stalling and attempting to frustrate customers.

As indicated above, the fault has been confirmed by your own mechanic.

I have more recently received an email from you which suggest that you are proposing to repair the fault.
Please note that this is not been discussed with me. I have not agreed to any action by you to address any faults.
I'm putting you on notice that any arrangement to repair the vehicle should only be made after discussion with me and agreement in writing.

Your unilateral proposal to repair the vehicle is thoroughly in keeping with the reports and complaints which I have read over the Internet including Facebook.
If you decide to stand by this position then this letter and extracts from the Internet will be shown to the County Court judge who I am sure will draw their own conclusions.

If you do not make appropriate arrangements to collect the vehicle and to refund me in full within 14 days from today then I shall begin a County Court claim against you and without any further notice.

In your email to me dated XXX, you claim to have a verification problem because you say that you cannot find my email address. I already have a number of emails From youaddressed to meAnd which have successfully arrived.

I don't believe that you can't find my email address and that you can't verify my identity – but if that really is the case then this points to inaccurate data processing which is a breach of the Data Protection Act and I will include a claim for that also when I have you for the refund of the purchase price of my vehicle

Please note that I will not be bound by any you should not attempt to impose upon me any duties of confidentiality or without prejudice without my prior written agreement.

 

Sincerely, x

 

I assume that we also wait before we go for a chargeback ?

Also I amended the last paragraph as I was made aware about their reputation post purchase…

They’ve just replied with me wanting me to verify the email address im trying to use

[BankFodder]

It's a load of rubbish. Did you send the letter which I proposed above?

[BankFodder]

Okay, sorry for the delays. I've been running round like crazy for the last couple of days. I apologise for making you wait.

I have made a few edits in purple. They aren't massively significant that maybe there are little bit more assertive.
I suggest that you start preparing your particulars of claim on the MoneyClaim website. You will have to open an account there.

Do note that this is well over £10,000 so you go onto the fast track. This means that if you lose the case that you would be liable for some costs of the other side. This may prompt them to try and outspend you. I think the cost of starting a case of this value is about 5% of the value of the claim. On the basis that you win, then you will get this back. Also you will get your own costs – litigant in person costs which I think are currently about £18 an hour.

So if you decide to make the claim you should start keeping a close detail of all the time you are spending on this including researching, time on this forum. List it out in detail. In order for a judge to award you your litigant in person costs the judge will have to be satisfied that you want on a money grab and that everything is carefully accounted for.
Account for every five minutes spent – with an explanation of what it is.

Also, your claim will include interest at 8% on the amount claimed – which is pretty good at today's interest rates. This would be from the date that you deliver your rejection letter.

Be prepared to be mucked around by these people.
You will have to stand your ground.

If you aren't prepared to start the claim then don't send the letter of claim because you will lose all credibility. This is not a bluff.

Be aware that if they do pay you, they may well try to hang onto some costs/charges. They may even want you to agree in writing not to bring any further actions. They will also try to sign you into an NDA – nondisclosure agreement. – You should probably refuse all of this.

Let us know what you want to do.

Consider carefully if you want to bring legal action. Your chances of success are almost 100% – – but you may consider that the outlay is too great. I can imagine that this is what Big Motoring World relies upon when their victims have problems with expensive vehicles. Victims get rather frightened of starting a court case because of the cost.

 

And by the way, big motoring world monitors the site. They monitor the Facebook page as well

[BankFodder]

I have made some edits above – but am I getting confused? Is this the big motoring world case where they have said that they getting ready to repair?

Please don't send this letter off yet until you clarify that.

I've just noticed also that this is the one with the identity verification issue so I'm going to make a further edit

[BankFodder]

Here is a proposed addition/amendment to the above letter

 

Quote

I have since received an email from you saying that you do not accept my rejection because you cannot verify my identity.

Clearly you are trying to avoid your legal responsibility. There is no provision in the Consumer Rights Act which entitles you to do this. You and your mechanic are well aware of the vehicle and of my identity and also of the defect which emerged and which was confirmed by your mechanic after I refused to leave your premises until one of your staff checked the condition of the car.

It's completely up to you, but if you do not refund me then I will begin a legal action against you. If you want you can refuse to respond to the court papers on the basis that you have not verified my identity.
 

And sorry, I can't think of anything more intelligent to say. Their request for identity verification is absurd. If you get a court I think the judge will probably adjourn for 10 minutes to get over their laughter before they can continue.

[APT]

This is the case that I got that car and within 2 days I had an engine light come on, I got the car to them, after a couple of hours of saying they cannot see the car without an appointment they finally agreed to have a look at it and confirmed they found two sensors that need replacement. 
 

they said they ordered the replacement parts but I told them I want to return the car so they gave me a card with an email address I had to contact.

i did and they came back with the verification question, I checked all my documents yesterday and all docs I signed that have my email address on is the correct address.

also as said same day on the way back I noticed this very loud noise from the axle probably when the car turns 

[APT]

They didn’t say they will not refund, so far only thing they said is they cannot find my email address in their database 

[BankFodder]

Thank you. I'm sorry I got confused. Too many things going on at the same time! Both in-forum and out-forum.

I'll amend the verification point. As you have clearly identified that they do have your email address – presumably having received emails from them, it seems to me that they have a data processing failure and this would be a breach of the data protection act.

We may as well point that out to them in your letter.

While we both online at the same time – are you prepared to take legal action on this?

[APT]

Yes sure, we are not prepared to keep the car 

[BankFodder]

Thanks.

 

I made a further edit, this time in green – which refers to their verification problem.

 

Please have a look – have a close look because I dictate everything and there are often typos due to my poor proofreading. Make sure that you are happy with the letter.Let us know if there is anything you want to take out or to add.

[APT]

Will make some changes and post back in an hour or so thanks 

[APT]

@BankFodder In the meantime I received this, it was sent via email but they have my partners name against my email address….

I hope you are well, I have tried contacting yourself regarding the concerns raised with your vehicle.

 

• What concerns are you experiencing?
• Are there any warning lights/messages illuminated on your vehicles dash?

 

If you could provide the diagnosis that states there is a concern with the oxygen and nox sensors that would be great so I can assist yourself further.

[BankFodder]

They are idiots.

Are you ready to send the letter of rejection?

If so then at the same time I would probably just drop a note in reply to the message you have received

 

Quote

Thanks your message

The problem with the sensors was identified by your own mechanic on XXX date. We don't need another diagnosis.

I have just sent your company a formal letter of rejection and proposing to take legal action if it does not happen within 14 days.

 

 

I have to say these people are really quite incredible. Wriggle and wriggle. They are the most squirmy people. I wonder if their children know what they do for a living and how they and their money during the day

[APT]

@BankFodder revised the letter, reads as per below. I added a sentence that they actually gave me the card with their email address so I can start the process to return the car

Quote

Notice of Rejection Vehicle Registration XXX

Letter of Claim

I am writing to formally assert my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding the car that I purchased from your dealership on 03/03/2023, for which I paid a total of £25899 (Vehicle Price £24200, Buyers Fee £249.17, Gard X £416, 67, Warranty 12 months £750.01, VAT £283.15).

Within the initial 30 days of ownership, a significant defect has materialised in the vehicle, specifically related to its NOX and oxygen sensors as identified by Big Motoring Company Wimbledon and also a very alarming clicking noise when the car turns.

Upon noticing the engine the Engine Management Light (EML) on Tuesday morning 5th of March I immediately drove down to my closes Big Motoring World branch in Wimbledon, upon looking at the car the engineer of the above mentioned branch suggested diagnosed that there is an issue with the NOX and oxygen sensors and these will need to be replaced. Later the same day I did also notice a very loud and alarming clicking and popping sound when I turn the car.

Under the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, it is explicitly stated that goods must be accurately described, fit for their intended purpose, and of satisfactory quality. Given that your dealership is in breach of this contractual obligation, and considering that the defect materialised in the car within the first 30 days of ownership, I therefore am rejecting the car and requesting a refund in accordance to my statutory rights.  

Please will you respond without any delay, clearly outlining the process for receiving a refund and your arrangements for collecting the vehicle.

I'm also writing to put your notice that if you do not accept the rejection and organise collection and refund of my money within 14 days that I will start a legal action against you.

As required by the Consumer Rights Act I expect Big Motoring World to take full responsibility for coordinating the return of the vehicle. 

I trust that you will handle this matter with the seriousness it deserves, acknowledging my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and promptly addressing the refund and return of the vehicle in accordance with the law.

As indicated above, the fault has been confirmed by your own mechanic. At which point I informed them that I want to return the car and they handed me a card with your email address so the return process can start.

If you do not make appropriate arrangements to collect the vehicle and to refund me in full within 14 days from today then I shall begin a County Court claim against you and without any further notice.

In your email to me dated 06/03/2024, you claim to have a verification problem because you say that you cannot find my email address. I already have a number of emails from you addressed to me and which have successfully arrived. 

I don't believe that you can't find my email address and that you can't verify my identity – but if that really is the case then this points to inaccurate data processing which is a breach of the Data Protection Act.
Also on your email to me dated 07/03/2024 you are addressing me with the wrong name and this also is a breach of the Data Protection Act by inaccurate data processing.
Please note that I will not be bound by any duties of confidentiality or without prejudice without my prior written agreement.

 

Sincerely, x

 

 

Edited March 7 by BankFodder
Further edits in orange

[BankFodder]

Okay I made a couple of changes – in orange.

I suppose that we better call it a day and send this off because we are running out of colours.

Once you sent this, open account with the County Court MoneyClaim online service and start drafting your claim. Post the particulars of claim here before you click them off on day 15.

We may as well assume that they are going to force you to take legal action.

Don't let them stall you for any reason at all. You seen all the little games they play. Don't be led around by the nose. Take control