Invalid Default Notices

[means2anend]

I can't quite see why they have issued a DN under s87 of the CCA. Overdrafts are not realy covered by the CCA, unless linked to another financial product. Was yours issued under the act.

 

 

I do not want to hijack the thread...but you have just said something that appears very important...

 

Vint1954 are you in agreement with the Bank defending the unfair charges against Jennfer Sharp in the Govan situation 'that overdrafts do not fall within the remit of CCA 1974''.....''unless linked to another financial product''

pls explain.....

 

This appears to be a different view from a lender itself when posting information on Experian or was it Experian's view

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/237096-overdrafts-covered-ccas-8.html#post3004364

 

 

m2ae:confused:

Edited July 2, 2010 by means2anend

[lexis200]

I do not want to hijack the thread...but you have just said something that appears very important...

 

Vint1954 are you in agreement with the Bank defending the unfair charges against Jennfer Sharp in the Govan situation 'that overdrafts do not fall within the remit of CCA 1974''.....''unless linked to another financial product''

pls explain.....

 

This appears to be a different view from a lender itself when posting information on Experian or was it Experian's view

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/237096-overdrafts-covered-ccas-8.html#post3004364

 

 

m2ae:confused:

 

That ship has sailed m2ae, as this is Pinky's thread about her/his fight with 3 banks who marked credit files incorrectly. It was royally hijacked by everyone a few months ago and Pinky has graciously let it carry on;)

 

I don't think it can be hijacked any more than it already has:)

[colin21958]

Hi Everyone,

 

Hope you are well.

 

I was just trying to reinforce my understanding of s87/88 and was wondering if anyone could answer a quick question for me.

 

s87 (4) states

(4) Regulations may provide that subsection (1) is not to apply to agreements described by the regulations.

 

Does anyone know of any such exceptions stated in the regulations, and if so could they direct me to them please?

 

Thanks,

 

Colin

[egg-sterminator]

quite- and the danger with NO DN (as opposed to a dodgy one) is that they may well have sent one

 

the first thing i would do in these circumstances is absoilutley nothing

 

except fire off a SAR request and get hold of their files before things get "corrected)

 

if no DN shows as being issued that is good

 

if it is shown then it will be you word against theirs that one was sent

Hi DD just recieved a letter from dlc demanding full payment, as mbna sent a default [13 days allowed] and a letter from mbna states "your debt has been assigned to hillisden securities and this meens mbna no longer own your account all future payments and contact must be made with them" i assume i accept termination with dlc . Another point is the policy has ppi attached . Thinking on this being, demand for full amount termination, 13 days on dn but you could have a rouge judge, 2-3k ppi claimed back [from mbna or dlc] amount demanded by dn way out making dn invalid, as full amount demanded they have terminated the agreement and cannot just issue knew dn? Well lets see if i've been paying attention . If lexis, pinky,elsa or vint read this first advice welcome . Thanks and kind regards eggy

Edited July 6, 2010 by egg-sterminator
forgot elsa

[nks22]

i assume i accept termination with dlc

No, you accept termination with MBNA. When Hillesden's come for the money you can tell them that you accepted UR with MBNA.

 

they have terminated the agreement and cannot just issue knew dn

 

You won't get another DN. MBNA won't send one as they've sold the account and DLC/Hillesden's won't send one as they (think they) own the debt, not the credit agreement.

Edited July 6, 2010 by nks22

[egg-sterminator]

thanks NK . Do i also start the ppi claim against mbna ?

[nks22]

I'll let someone else answer that. I've never had any PPIs so haven't followed any of those discussions.

 

MBNA sold my account to DLC/Hillesden's last December. It was during the DN remedy period and I was also in dispute with MBNA over the validity of the original agreement. I accepted UR with MBNA then when I heard from Hillesden's wrote to them informing of this and enclosing copies of my MBNA dispute and UR letters. I had a reply in January asking me to send them copies of the original agreement and the DN (which I didn't - I figured if they haven't got a copy of the agreement it's not in my interests to provide one). Since then I've had a couple of phone calls. I tell them to refer to my earlier correspondence and that I won't discuss anything on the phone.

[nks22]

This is the letter, adapted from others on this site, I sent to DLC:

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: a/c ref. xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated xxx.

 

This account is in dispute with MBNA and has been since xxx .

 

Furthermore, the credit agreement has been unlawfully rescinded by MBNA’s action in selling the debt before the statutory period for remedy specified for a valid Default Notice.

 

Not only is your demand for payment a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, in line with the Office Of Fair Trading's debt collection guidelines, but it is also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998.

 

If Direct Legal chooses to ignore my dispute and the illegal recission and attempts enforcement I will pursue the matter with the appropriate authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, the Office of Fair Trading, the Information Commissioner’s Office, the Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to MBNA for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Direct Legal cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

I have enclosed copies of the relevant correspondence with MBNA and would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing. Please note that I will not respond to any phone calls or email correspondence. Furthermore I revoke licence under Common Law for you or your representatives to visit me at my address.

 

Yours faithfully,

[diddydicky]

eggsterminator did the letter - advising you of the assignment come recorded or signed for? if it came through ordinary post then i would NOT send any reply at all to either MBNA or dlc

 

if you have already done so-- big mistake! but luckily for you- enough other errors

[lord_tiger_putin]

I have posted these questions on other threads but do not seem to get any respones, can someone here help?

 

Should one decide to actually take a bank or credit card company to court:cool: for invalid default notices, failure to comply to Subject access request requests, etc., which court will oversee the procedure? Is it in the town/city where the bank/company are registered or in the town/city where you live?

 

I recently accessed my Call credit report just to realise that 2 Payday companies registered Defaults:p. I haven't receive any default notices from them. Do they have to follow the same procedure as banks and credit card companies by actually sending you a letter in writing, etc.?

 

Thanks!

[egg-sterminator]

eggsterminator did the letter - advising you of the assignment come recorded or signed for? if it came through ordinary post then i would NOT send any reply at all to either MBNA or dlc

 

if you have already done so-- big mistake! but luckily for you- enough other errors

Letter of assignment came through ordinary post DD, have taken no action awaiting advice "act in haste repent at leisure" cant think what wife means when she keeps telling me that ? Should i send the " accept the termination letter"

[dad]

s87 (4) states

(4) Regulations may provide that subsection (1) is not to apply to agreements described by the regulations.

 

Does anyone know of any such exceptions stated in the regulations, and if so could they direct me to them please?

 

 

UKSI 1983-1561 Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983

 

Regulation 2(9):

 

(9) Sections 76(1), 87(1) and 98(1) of the Act shall not apply in the case of non-commercial agreements in relation to which no security has been provided.

 

HTH

 

Dad

[alangee]

If the OC issues an invalid DN, and in a subsequent letter makes a final demand for the balance of the account, but states that the account will not be terminated until the balance is paid off, where do you stand there on the unlawful rescission of contract?

 

Alan

[nks22]

If the OC issues an invalid DN, and in a subsequent letter makes a final demand for the balance of the account, but states that the account will not be terminated until the balance is paid off, where do you stand there on the unlawful rescission of contract?

 

It's not the account that is terminated but the credit agreement. That agreement provides the facility to repay the balance over time. If the creditor withdraws that facility - by demanding repayment of the balance in full - they have terminated the credit agreement by their action.

[cosalt]

I would say that demanding the full balance is clearly ending the contract by removing your right to pay in installments.

[colin21958]

UKSI 1983-1561 Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983

 

Regulation 2(9):

 

 

 

HTH

 

Dad

 

 

Thanks for that Dad, I appreciate your assistance...

[Guest]

I would say that demanding the full balance is clearly ending the contract by removing your right to pay in installments.

 

also, imo. demanding the full balance is also 'consistent' with most cr cd 'conditions' which state under 'ending/terminating the agreement' that, when doing so, payment of the balance in full is required. so, when they demand the full bal they are effectively indicating their intention to end the agreement.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Ford
typo addition

[diddydicky]

Letter of assignment came through ordinary post DD, have taken no action awaiting advice "act in haste repent at leisure" cant think what wife means when she keeps telling me that ? Should i send the " accept the termination letter"

 

 

if the NOA was not sent registered/recorded/signed for....then it was not served

 

personally i would ignore the assignee altogether and just deal with the OC . if the DN was faulty i would have a record on file of accepting their unlawful repudiation then just sit back and do nothing!!

[diddydicky]

It's not the account that is terminated but the credit agreement. That agreement provides the facility to repay the balance over time. If the creditor withdraws that facility - by demanding repayment of the balance in full - they have terminated the credit agreement by their action.

 

 

they have not "terminated the credit agreement by their action"

 

since their "action " was unlawful they may not terminate- since they have not first served a valid default notice- and are so prevented from (lawfully) claiming entitlement to the benefits of s87 ) - to terminate or demand earlier repayment of sums not yet due under the agreement

 

what they have "done" is unlawfully repudiate their obligations under the agreement

 

this does NOT terminate the agreement

 

it gives the injured party the right to choose

 

either to hold the creditor to the agreement or

 

to accept the unlawful repudiation and releive himself of his continuing obligations

 

 

at that point (and not before)- that the agreement is effectively ended- since both parties have now stated their intentions not to perform

 

it is left to the injured party to claim- if he wishes- damages for the creditors unlawful repudiation

[InformedSearcher]

I have posted these questions on other threads but do not seem to get any respones, can someone here help?

 

Should one decide to actually take a bank or credit card company to court:cool: for invalid default notices, failure to comply to Subject access request requests, etc., which court will oversee the procedure? Is it in the town/city where the bank/company are registered or in the town/city where you live?

 

I recently accessed my Call credit report just to realise that 2 Payday companies registered Defaults:p. I haven't receive any default notices from them. Do they have to follow the same procedure as banks and credit card companies by actually sending you a letter in writing, etc.?

 

Thanks!

 

On the taking them to court issue...

Personally I would NOT take them to court. However the downside is that the D/N will remain for 6 years on your credit file. Forget about thinking a bank will remove the entries (although on the flooky occasion they have). If you go to court 'you' are the person charged with producing all the data and on a possible losing side. They OTOH taking you to court means 'they' have to produce everything and you can challenge it all. However this is said in laymans' terms. In other words I mean that say you owe £5k then the financial institution will be prepared to fork out the same amount (or more) for legal value just to prove a point and make a precident.

 

Having said all that, if you consider your case watertight then go for it. You need to weigh up the possibilities and potential consequences if things go against you.

 

Michael

[egg-sterminator]

if the NOA was not sent registered/recorded/signed for....then it was not served

 

personally i would ignore the assignee altogether and just deal with the OC . if the DN was faulty i would have a record on file of accepting their unlawful repudiation then just sit back and do nothing!!

Thanks DD having reread the letters The NOA states "mbna no longer own the account and your account is owned by dlc" letter yesterday "we have been instructed by our client to collect the outstanding balance on their behalf . Also states " to avoid further action you must either pay debt in full or contact our recovery department" so i'm wondering now if this would be taken as demand for full amount ?

[egg-sterminator]

Perhaps should mention what i'm aiming to do is go for full and final settlements on my cards .

[nks22]

Perhaps should mention what i'm aiming to do is go for full and final settlements on my cards .

 

I can't see it'll be an option with this one. MBNA have sold the debt so you can't negotiate a settlement with them and you can't negotiate with DLC without first acknowledging the legitimacy of their ownership of the debt.

[egg-sterminator]

I can't see it'll be an option with this one. MBNA have sold the debt so you can't negotiate a settlement with them and you can't negotiate with DLC without first acknowledging the legitimacy of their ownership of the debt.

Now DD's point about sitting back is clear . Wonder how fast it would end up on Mbna,s desk if i put in a claim for ppi . Still this second letter stating "we have been instructed by or client to collect this debt on their behalf" would pehaps lend weight to the non existence of any assignment letter ?

Hello Elsa

[Undercover-Elsa]

Heyyy E-S

 

Sorry I was multitasking, leaving myself apparently but not actually

sat sitting in here, LOL

 

I agree with DD..wait for their next move. If they've just said either pay full balance OR contact us..etc I'd personally wait for a definitive demand stating amount of full balance owed.

 

Elsa x