Invalid Default Notices

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

" think most of these cases will end up in Court.

 

Vint"

 

Especially if we take them there!

 

GK

[cashins]

Steady lads, these are 'sophisticated financial institutions', surely they can't be wrong.

 

David

[vint1954]

" think most of these cases will end up in Court.

 

Vint"

 

Especially if we take them there!

 

GK

 

Quite right Gk,

 

Just as soon as I can confirm the best way forward and make sure that I am correct.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/192034-halifax-unenforcable-agreement-2.html

 

Vint

[GhostDebt]

Quick question Pinky.

 

If a DN is issued and the sender cannot prove the type of postage they used, is it normally assumed that it is sent first or second class?

 

A DN I have received is dated 15.12.08 and date of remedy is 03.01.09, but am unsure how the bank holiday dates (xma/new year) may or may not affect the prescribed time period and if I can assume second class then it doesn't give sufficient time I believe.

 

Best wishes

[summerbreeze]

Does this help ?

 

1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

 

This states:-

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

 

2. Practice Direction

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail.

With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8th March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

[Pinky69]

Today's update - Round 1 to me. The bank that entered the default a year after the account was closed have now removed the entry from all the CRA's. It was done immediately after receiving my Letter Before Action and a copy of the Durkin transcript. They offered me £100 in damages from the outset. It has been referred to their complaints department for a further review of damages. Since that is an admission of liability, it will be a question of negotiation or court.

 

So, to the 2 banks (3 accounts) - invalid DN's then terminated. One of them has lost the plot! I've received a copy of the application form they think is an agreement with a covering note with no signature or address saying "Please find enclosed a copy of your credit agreement"? Que? They haven't even got the SAR yet!! It's going to be a long few months.

[GhostDebt]

Congratulations so far Pinky.

Hope it continues in your favour...

[Pinky69]

Thank you, Ghost. I will keep you posted as I go along.

[CheekoWeeko]

subscribing;)

[Pinky69]

Today's Update. Bank No 1 (1 account) have sent me a letter stating that what they sent in reply to my CCA request at the beginning of 2008 was a credit agreement. This is I presume in reply to my SAR request. It is going to be long year. I will wait the 40 days then get in touch with the IOC. If only I were dealing with even one complete brain cell.

 

Bank No 2 (2 accounts). The Royal Mail failed to deliver the SARs so they are on the way back to me - reason unknown. They have to go through Belfast, their returns office. Once I get the POs back I will send them again.

 

Have had a letter from Equifax offering the services of their Disputes Team with my complaints. I am going to take them up on that because they might be helpful in actually getting some sense out of Bank 1.

 

I went through all my files today keeping all the correspondence on these cases together. It's wonderful that all that paper and all those hours were wasted by banks and DCAS. I sent the first CCA in April 2007 and I never paid a penny to anyone after that - it was thie greed that cut them off at the neck, all of them. I have had £50000 written off - one bank alone wrote off £24000. Now I am down to getting 3 defaults removed and not a valid DN between them before termination. There is a God.

[GhostDebt]

Hi Pinky.

Sounds like your fighting the good fight and winning. Well done.

I don't wish to hijack your thread, but I wanted to post a DN up for some comments in a thread where poeple in the know will see it.

 

Default Notice picture by shann15 - Photobucket

 

In my opinion, the timescales are ok based on first or second class postage, but it falls down in relation to other items.

 

What are your opinions on it?

 

Many thanks for your input.

[cashins]

In my opinion, the timescales are ok based on first or second class postage, but it falls down in relation to other items.

 

 

Not the best effort I have ever seen.

 

Does not have the required underlining on certain statements.

 

If there are a significant amount of charges included among the amount demanded, (or if they have demanded the full ammount), that would give them a problem as well.

 

David

[GhostDebt]

Have been looking through the Statutory Instruments and am unclear where the requirement for underlining comes from. Can you clarify this please?

 

Many thanks

[summerbreeze]

Hi GD

 

Does this help [ taken from one of PT's posts ]

 

Section 2 (5) and (6) of the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 sets out the following

 

(5) Where any statement is required to be in a form specified in a Schedule to these Regulations and is reproduced in the notice, then apart from any heading to the notice, trade names or names of parties to the agreement—

 

(a) the lettering in the statement shall be afforded more prominence (whether by capital letters, underlining, large or bold print or otherwise) than any other lettering in the notice; and

 

(b) where words are both shown in capital letters and underlined in any statement specified in a Schedule to these Regulations, they shall be afforded yet more prominence.

 

(6) The wording in any such statement shall be reproduced in the notice without any alteration or addition, and in relation to any statement to be contained in the notice the requirements of any note shall be complied with, except that the words "the creditor" may be replaced by the name of the creditor, by the expression by which he is referred to in the agreement or by an appropriate pronoun, and any consequential changes to pronouns and verbs may be used.

 

 

The notice fails to include the following statement in the form as shown

 

"IF THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN NO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH

 

Also the notice fails to set out the statement as set out below

 

"IF YOU DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN THEN THE FURTHER ACTION SET OUT BELOW MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU [OR A SURETY]"

 

 

The statements referred to above are laid out in schedule 2 of Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561)

[GhostDebt]

Think I need to find a new copy of SI 1983/1561 'cos the one I have doesn't show the underling and bold on the statements referred to in schedule 2.

Can you put up a link to a copy please.

[Pinky69]

Bank 1 is all at sea and Bank 2 are supposed to be investigating so whilst I wait 40 days to receive a SAR from one and a response from 2, I have begun the second part of a two-pronged attack, this time on the CRAs themselves. They just accept what the banks tell them but by my registering disputes with them, they have got to check out that the information they have is not in breach of the DPA, otherwise they too are breaching the Act and aiding and abetting a bank/s to do the same. They ask for supporting evidence but I am deliberately not sending them any. I've told them exactly why each entry on my credit files from these 2 banks is in breach of the DPA and it is up to them to check out each entry in dispute with the banks. That means they will have to talk to the banks and evoke a response from them. If they get the same template and drivel responses I have had so far, then the entries should fall off my reports like snow off a dyke - we'll see.

 

It's a labour of love! I am composing the 2 different letters, then entering the details from the 3 CRAS. I am attaching to each a copy of the Durkin judgement. I am doing it a bit at a time to make sure it is accurate - and in this heat I am in no rush. Slowee slowee catchee monkey! I read on CAG somewhere a while back that if the CRAs don't get a response or are unhappy with the response they do get, then they remove the default after 30 days - I must check that out.

[angel_1]

Pinky

 

im reading this thread with much interest and much hope

 

wow,,,, you got a lot written off, it just shows the banks just didnt keep their own house in order and i love your quote, a labour of love,,,,,,lol

 

i think im there too now,,, and yes you have truely inspired me

 

the injustice of it all is what makes me keep going, but now i have much fighting spirit in me that i know in the end it will be worth it

 

huge thanks keep it up gal

 

have a sunny day we are having a glorious weekend

 

laters angel x:)

[babydoll0141917]

Hi

I had aDN issued to me by halifax in january 2008 giving me just 6 days to pay..was posted on 21 jan had to pay bu 29 jan..So Def invalid i think!!

 

i cant remember if i ever received a termination letter ,,but no intrest is being added now and my case keeps getting passed from 1 DCA to another asking for the full amount 16.000 there is charges on that !! so i gather all they are entitled to is the arrears on the DN notice??

 

thanks guys

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi Babydoll,

 

Thank god these bankers aren't surgeons

 

With their level of competence!

 

It has only been 35 years since the act came out - who knows in time they may start to get things right?

 

GK

[babydoll0141917]

Hi GKTP

 

I cant beleive they are still getting it wrong either..specially now people are getting to know the law,..Well at least i know that if my CCA does turn out enforcable then all they will be getting is the arrears,But if i take the charges off the arrears they will no doubt end up will zilch lol

[babydoll0141917]

Ive also found my OH default notice for a barclays loan..its giving 14 days but not giving no days for postage..so they have either gave him 13 days or 12..Looks like another cock up:)..im sending a CCA tomoora on this loan

[smouk]

Just a little update!

[Reader]

Subbing this thread with interest

[Pinky69]

Breaking News . I have had a reply from Bank 1 - they don't consider the DNs (2 accounts) invalid and if I write again they will file my letters but not reply. Aww didums - bad bank no ' peak to Pinky! Isn't it nice they won't reply? - it is usually the other way around!! :lol: I have replied that the invalid DN's are a legal fact and not something the bank can change by consideration. I have also said that there is more than the bank involved - the CRAs are also involved - and they too will be in breach of the DPA if they collude with the bank and don't remove the default entries. The bank didn't need to speak to me but they would have to speak to the CRAS. The bank also said they would continue to pursue the alleged debts -D'oh!! Cloud Cuckoo Land.

 

So, Complaints sent to both banks

SAR to 1 bank, waiting return of mail to resend SARs to other bank

Copies of complaints to bank sent to CRAs

Copies of subsequent letters and replies sent to CRAs

Complaints sent to CRAs

Letter Before Action sent today in reply to above - copies to CRAs

Copies of Durkin judgement send with complaints and to CRAs

Copy of reply received today and Letter Before Action sent to Bank's

CEO.

 

It's been a pile of work, setting up templates, cross-referencing , making sure CRA details are correct for each complaint and I need a mortgage for ink!! That's all I can do for now. I'm going out to get myself an ice cream.

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Yep

 

Cap one are like that.

 

They WILL have to speak to the judge.

 

It occurs to me that maybe you should insist on them calling you - an idea for my next letter.

 

GK