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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Ticketshield


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another [problem]. easy way - ignore the PPC, its free. Standard solicitor's letter that will shut the PPC up (very well known contents) can be had for around 20 quid (last Time I checked process). Cheaper to ignore the PPC - and it costs the PPC money to send their letters. have never yet seen a lawful set of paperwork from a PPC. see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/164651-problems-ppcs-face.html?highlight=problems+ppc+face and FAQs - PPCs - fighting back. The forces are aligned

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I think the term '[problem]' is rather harsh. They do a job for a price. What you forget is that whilst it is easy for some of us to treat these letters with contempt, others can be wound up to extremes and need the comfort of knowing that someone, somewhere is looking after those interests. So, fight if you can, use one of these firms if you mist, but never, EVER give in to them.

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why pay 37.50 you can do it yourself , for free

 

If you are going to do this in some instances it would be cheaper to pay the discounted invoice. Best off ignoring full stop. There is nothing a solicitor can say to these [problematic] that anyone else cannot.

 

TFT

09/07/09 :)Business Studies BA(Hons) 2:1:)

 

eCar Insurance overpayment - £325

Settled in full - 15/09/08

NatWest Student A/C bank charges - £260

Settled under hardship scheme - 08/06/09

Natwest Business A/C bank charges - £60

Settled in full as GOGW - 20/04/09

Santander Consumer Finance late payment fees - £60

Part settled for £48 - 01/03/08

Peugeot Finance late payment fees - £50

Settled in full before county court hearing - 01/09/09

Peugeot Finance overpayment of £247

Settled in full - 01/12/08

Valley Leisure - complaint about collections agent

£160 part refund of gym membership in compensation - 01/02/09

HFC Bank - complaint about payment deducted from my account on wrong date

GOGW £10 - 01/05/09

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  • 2 months later...

I sent £37.50 off a week ago and have heard nothing back despite several emails - the Website isn;t working either - so possibly I may have been scammed - which would add insult to injury!

Can I find a lawyer to sue someone posing as a lawyer?

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

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You may also have misunderstood their service. For the money, they write 'form' letters, you don;t get your own individual lawyer on the case . Their letters will have (at some time) been checked by one and verified that it meets the needs of any relevant challenges, so hoping that you can get them on misrepresentation is a long shot. My solicitor charges £75 for a 15 minute consultation and 1 letter.

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I was being ironic about hiring a lawyer to sue a lawyer! I'd be the only one losing out!

My main concern is that they say they will contact you and be available by phone- but they are not- the no they write on their website goes to answer phone- so I have no idea if they are doing anything with the £37.50.

The reason I went to them is that I wrote letters to the BPA - UKPC and DVLA and none of it helped-

What does notice of Intended Litigation mean anyway- small claims court?

I thought that Private Parking companies can't apply to county court anyway for a county court judgement- am I wrong?

Edited by Chitty-bangbang
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yep but how are you paying paypal?

 

seems real irish to me though, paying a [EDIT] to stop an initial [problem] in the first place...........

its not the guy that sits next to the solcitor three tables down in the same office is it?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I was being ironic about hiring a lawyer to sue a lawyer! I'd be the only one losing out!

What does notice of Intended Litigation mean anyway- small claims court?

I thought that Private Parking companies can't apply to county court anyway for a county court judgement- am I wrong?

 

it means nothing, how can they litigate on a contract that you did not sign in the first place......

 

totally [problem] the lot of it

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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If you would like to send me some money, I'll do the job for twenty five quid!

 

Having cashed your cheque, I'll send them a letter stating that I'm taking over your case; I'll also advise them that they have no case in law, and that I'm aware of their [problem].

 

I will also tell them that provided that they never write to you again concerning this matter, I'll send them twelve pounds and fifty pence.

 

The alternative for them is to refuse to comply - in that case I'll tell them that they won't get a penny from me, and I've advised you to send everything to me anyway.

 

They get something, and so do I - simple, isn't it!

 

Sam the Eagle

All of these are on behalf of a friend.. Cabot - [There's no CCA!]

CapQuest - [There's no CCA!]

Barclays - Zinc, [There's no CCA!]

Robinson Way - Written off!

NatWest - Written off!

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  • 3 months later...

Ticketshield.

Did you ever get your ticket sorted by this mob.

I have to hold my hands up as I also sent them ther £37.50 believing they were going to work on my behalf. First time offender, everything is easy if you know how. I now have the debt collectors letter, £211.25.

Has anyone actually taken this non payment route to the limit or are they all barrackroom lawyers?

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Parking at MacDonalds, over stayed their offical time allowance. I never saw the sign about max length of time allowable. Original fine £120 reduced to £75 if quick payment. I employed (or thought I employed) Ticketshield, who have gone on the missing list, to sort it out. I now have a debt collection agency called Newlyn after me for £211.25p.

I haven't acknowledged any of their demands.

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Has anyone actually taken this non payment route to the limit or are they all barrackroom lawyers

 

Yes and on the latest I am currently awaiting the 'solicitors' letters following ignoring the Debt Collectors threat-o-gram. All because the driver (not the RK or owner) overstayed in a popular restaurant car park while having a 'meal' NOTE: the RK would not be caught dead in one of these excuses for food - (sorry Ronald ;)).

 

They are welcome to take me to court if they dare as I am fully able to defend myself :mad:

 

They rely on scaring with you threats of court , debt collectors, your credit file all to get you to part with your hard earned cash to line their pockets.

 

Court (if it ever came to that) is nothing to be scared of and for this paltry amount of would be small claims, No Jury, No Judge with his smart black hat just in a nice quiet room where you each put your case

 

Ignore works and keeps the paperwork ([problem]-mail) to a minimum

 

To win they would amongst other things have to prove that you were the driver (The owner and/or RK is not liable), that the 'fine' / 'penalty' equates to a real loss - it is almost tantamount to 'demanding money with menaces' - read through the forum especially http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/164651-problems-ppcs-face.html

Edited by asmodeus
To add reason for latest 'invoice'
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Has anyone actually taken this non payment route to the limit or are they all barrackroom lawyers

 

The point is I (and others have) have taken it to limit (usually a couple of letters from the 'solicitors' and they give up and go chase an easier target.

 

Was pointing out that in the highly unlikely event they chose the Court route it is an uphill struggle for them with the odds firmly stacked in the defendants favour

Edited by asmodeus
to add the question
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Thankyou asmodeus.

Your last reply looked like this

"They rely on scaring with you threats of court , debt collectors, your credit file all to get you to part with your hard earned cash to line their pockets".

I have just seen the rest of it.

Do you think I will actually get a visit from the debt collection agency if I make no contact with them? Or would you send a letter stating I will not pay unless a court orders that I do pay.

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The debt collectors usually send one letter saying that if you do not pay they will be passing it onto their solicitors who MAY take it to court.

 

Normally it is two letters from the solicitors but there have been recent reports of them phoning to 'confirm your details' but not visiting.

 

Be prepared for this and always request their names (not the company's) and do not divulge or confirm anything to them

 

The current one I have is similar to yours with the same brand of eating establishment and the only evidence they have is a fuzzy picture of a car with a dodgy enlargement showing a number plate that is possibly that of a car I own. As to who is driving that is anybodies guess.

 

The car park is free to customers (as you would expect) so by overstaying you have incurred them a loss of zero pounds and zero pence and any 'fine'/'penalty' would have to reflect this in court.

 

You have an unenforceable invoice and they know it but will try all the tricks they can to scare you into paying it.

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