Black Horse have issued a court date for possession of my car Please HELP

[Guest suziedarkness]

I really dont know what to do next.

 

I had a thread going on here all about the saga of black horse and my HP agreement but I started a new thread because it is quite long and I dont want to put people off as I need help. Original thread here :http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/163457-black-horse-hire-purchase.html

 

The latest is this, I wrote to BH some weeks ago (back in January) asking them how they arrived at the figures as I believed them to be incorrect, but as usual, BH have totally ignored my letter.

 

About 3 weeks ago I had a letter from them saying that they had now terminated my agreement as I had not paid the arrears and if I did not return the vehicle they would get a court order.

 

I did try to get some advice on here as to what to do but no advice came forth so I took the bull by the horns and wrote back to them saying that the figures were incorrect and I was dissapointed to note that they had ignored my last letter. Anyway I went onto say that as they had charged me interest on tthe acceptance fee, the agreement was unenforceable and that I wanted them to release any interest in the vehicle and write off the agreement without default. If I did not hear from them I would report them to FOS. I also said that if they continued to take action I would defend the claim and put in a counterclaim for damages.

 

Now I dont know whether I done the right thing but I had to do something. The letter was sent at the beginning of this week and I special d'd it so they would have had it Wednesday.

 

Today I have received a court claim from them for a months time. I was thinking that it is because of the .etter I sent, but then I noticed the claim was issued on the 12th so the claim was in the workings already.

 

Obviously, I really dont know what to do now, I really need some help. I have 2 weeks to file a defence.

 

Suzie

[Guest suziedarkness]

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[atwozee]

Hi Suzie – as a result of reading some other posts I have done a little bit of digging into securitisation – pretty heavy reading but I would certainly be questioning whether your Black Horse agreement has been parcelled up along with lots of other agreements and securitised (in other words sold on or assigned to a SPV)

 

It’s a whole new subject to me and I certainly don’t profess to be an expert but the important thing to remember is that with any court claim the claimant must be entitled to make the claim in the first place.

 

With the case of a financial product such as a HP agreement the claimant must be the legal owner of the financial product and a party to the agreement – for instance I couldn’t sue you on behalf of Black horse Finance and vise versa.

 

During the course of my digging I found the following snippet from a LTSB 2001 financial report.

 

The Group’s subsidiary, Black Horse Limited (formerly Chartered Trust plc),

entered into transactions whereby it disposed of its interest in portfolios of motor vehicle and caravan instalment credit agreements for a total of

£980 million to Cardiff Automobile Receivables Securitisation (UK)

 

Okay that was in 2001 but have Black Horse continued to securitise their portfolios of products?

 

So I would start with the question – can Black Horse sue me in their own right with regards to an alleged agreement (enforceable or not) that they possibly do not have legal ownership of and could merely be administering the agreement for an SPV such as Cardiff Automobile Receivables Securitisation (UK) or similar company. In which case the claim is being made by the wrong company – does that make sense?

 

It is the same reason that a DCA cannot sue a debtor on behalf of a creditor – they have to have ownership by absolute assignment before they can do that. It’s a murky business that’s for sure.

 

Not sure what to suggest but perhaps a letter to the claimants solicitors requesting confirmation as to whether your agreement is the subject of securitisation by Black Horse – this confirmation should be by way of a notarised document.

 

Other than that you will obviously need to get your defence sorted out to avoid judgement by default. I suggest you send out the CPR 31.14 request for information to the claimants solicitors. Have a look at the following thread if you haven’t already.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html

 

Was the claim made via Northampton?

[Guest suziedarkness]

Atwozee, thank you for replying.

 

I have been hearing snippets about securitisation and thanks to your explanation I understand.

 

The court papers were issued in the Central london County Court. I dont know what relevance Northampton has.

 

I dont have much time to get my defence in, do I need to get that CPR thing before I file a defence? Also, what do I actually put in my defence?

 

I am panicking big time now!

 

Suzie

[atwozee]

I think you need advice from someone more knowledgeable about claims of this type – Northampton bulk centre allows for online (money) claims – this is clearly not that type of claim and I don’t want to give you any duff advice.

It might be a good idea to post up the particulars of claim (removing any personal details) for better advice.

And possibly a timeline of events leading up to the claim (just so other caggers don’t have to work through the other threads) I remember you approached them with a VT but this wasn’t acted on by Black Horse and it got a bit messy from there on in.

[Guest suziedarkness]

Ok Atwozee, I will try post up poc and hope.

 

Do I need to tell the court I will be defending?

 

suzie

[atwozee]

Was there an acknowledgement of service form for you to complete?

[Guest suziedarkness]

I dont think so Atwozee. there are 4 pages, Claim Form (N1), Notice of Hearing (N24), POC and a "Notes for defendant on replying to the claim form (consumer credit act claim)).

[atwozee]

Do you remember this thread and the posts made by x20 - I think it might be the same type claim - probably worth a read.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/168664-black-horse-car-finance.html#post1829927

[Guest suziedarkness]

I have read through that thread Atwozee, very interesting. Poor BC seems to still be battling with it. the only difference is mine is HP agreement but the default notice and court papers all worded exactly the same.

 

I have tried PM Surfaceagent but his box is full. I feel I should defend, just dont know what to put.

 

suzie

[atwozee]

Well if you don’t get any further help I suggest you base your defence around the defence written by x20 in that thread because it seems to cover the important facts that will need to be addressed by the court – when it gets to the hearing stage you can obviously raise the matter of the VT which was ignored by BH.

[Guest suziedarkness]

I need to mention in my defence that the figures on the credit agreement are wrong and that I believe black horse have charged interest on the acceptance fee which they cannot do as in the case of Wilson v FCT. I dont know how to word it, can anyone help ........ Please

[Guest suziedarkness]

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[cosalt]

Hi Suzie, did you ever write to them asking if them to confirm how the acceptance fee was to be paid and if it was subject to interest.

 

Cosalt

[Guest suziedarkness]

Yes Cosalt, I did and got the usual response from them ..................... nothing!!

 

I have no choice but to take the bull by the horns now, I have drafted out my defence but need to put in it about them charging interest on the acceptance fee. They may well deny it but I have had it checked out by a couple of different financial people not caggers and they both said that they have charged interest on it. if they havent, then the figures are wrong anyway.

 

Hows yours going?

 

Suzie

[Guest suziedarkness]

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[surprise]

With reference to you pm, I'm not legally trained but you are right to put in about the figures being wrong and that you have tried to clarify these with BH, refer to your correspondence in support and also enclose the Wilson case. I think you would be better to pm a site team member Paul (PTxx) and refer them to your thread but I would put your claim up and POC first so that they can see what they are dealing with.

 

Good luck

[havinastella]

Hi SD,

 

sorry to see you back.

 

Now If I remember rightly, I did inform you that BH would not acknowledge a thing you said! That much I know.

 

BH/Lloyds take everything to the millimetre, they have no concept of court actions or orders, they work to the premise, YOU WILL GIVE UP!

 

That from experience is their standard MO.

 

Like in my previous eperience with them, they claimed the car and £2400, I settled at £1000. As I had already offered them £750 in F&F, it didn't bother them, they took a loss to take me to Court.

 

They will fight all the way. Now you know this, you need the help from the legal team.

 

BH/Lloyds will give you nothing (EVER) They won't comply, but they squeal like pigs when you hold their BALLS.

 

I'll do all I can to help you.

 

Jogs

[Guest suziedarkness]

Surprise, thank you again for you help, I will try and contact PT.

 

Jogs, thanks to you also, I am stressing now as I need to get a defence in and I just dont know what I am doing. Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.

[Guest suziedarkness]

Polite bump from a nervous wreck!!

[Guest suziedarkness]

Time is running out, I am panicking, is there really no-one out there can help?

[cosalt]

Hi Suzie, sorry I have been a little busy and have not replied.

 

With regards to a defence I will admit I am out of my depth, you need help from someone in the know.

 

I will hit the red traingle for you ( assuming you have not done it ) don't lose faith, someone will help you !

 

Cosalt:)

[ukaviator]

Hi Suzie

 

Do you have a copy of the agreement you could let us have a look at? If you can post it up with your details blanked out we can see if it is enforcable.

 

Also is there an under writers sheet with it?. The reason i ask is that if someone was given commission for getting you the loan, it will be unenforcable. Check out Wilson v Hurstanger here:

 

Wilson v Hurstanger | OUT-LAW.COM

[Guest suziedarkness]

Thnks cosalt, what does hitting the red triangle do?

[Guest suziedarkness]

Thanks for posting UKAviator. A copy of the CCA can be found here on one of my original threads on the matter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/168115-mathematicians-needed-help-credit.html you need to go to post #13.

 

There is no underwriting sheet, I have not done SAR because it is a HP agreement for a car.

 

Suzie