Vote NO to Gtr Manchester congestion charge

[gyzmo]

I would urge anyone to vote NO to this tax.

 

I am not a car user - in fact I should benefit from this charge - if the claims were true. But they are not.

 

1. Most congestion is not caused by too many cars on the road.

Have a little run around manchester and you will see cars parked illegally, illegal uturns or poor lane discipline. I see it regularly and witness three lanes effectively being turned into one.

 

2. A charge will not necessarily reduce the number of cars

It will merely force most people to pay more because they HAVE to use cars. The problem will still exist - its just that you will be paying for no benefit.

 

3. There is no guarantee that you will not end up paying more.

The councils have already stated that there could be further zones in other areas and fees increased. This has happened in London.

 

4. Public transport will NOT improve.

As a regular bus user, the main problems are buses simply not turning up or getting caught up in traffic (see 1 above). Only today did a half hour journey take 90 minutes because there had to be a change of bus drivers - with no driver to replace the previous one (meaning having to wait 20 minutes for the next bus that wasnt overcrowded).

 

There have been lots of claims by various organisations - First buses are a major one. Lets have a look at some of their claims.

 

1. More buses.

Er really? In what areas? When? My bus route was changed from being every 20 minutes to 10 minutes or better. It has in fact got worse. They say moe buses in peak times and at earlier and later hours. Some areas are simply not suitable for buses and other areas already have night services and regular buses starting at 430.

 

2. Buses wil not get caught in traffic.

Really? They seem to have a bad enough time using the pre-existing bus lanes. what exactly are they going to do? Put cow catchers on the front of buses and plough through queues? Maybe the buses will have warp engines fitted on (the distances are the same so it must travel faster to meet this claim).

 

3. Bus fares will be cheaper.

Excuse me? for a company that has increased fares by nearly 100% over the past 12 months they cant get much more expensive! Oh yes - they're being capped. What's the betting that they will put fares up before then to make up for it?

 

Oh and dont get me started on the "cost of fuel" excuse. They have a price agreement with oil suppliers fixing the cost of fuel, yet used the rising costs as an excuse to increase prices. So they are lying to us about that - what else are they lying about? And with all the profits they have and according to their public propaganda (sorry - corporate homepage), they should be doing this anyway.

 

And the government is no better. They have deliberately hidden costing details, amongst others, and refuse to release them on grounds of confidentiality and competition - the same excuses used when PFIs are dished out to those who quote the cheapest and cost the most.

 

The YES campaign so far is just a load of promises with precious little detail. As such, a case cannot be founded on generalised rosy promises of everything turningout better. In fact, the situation is dependant on everything working out just right.

 

We all know that rarely, if ever, happens.

 

Until we have FULL disclosure and a more detailed plan of what will actually happen, as well as cast iron guarantees of no future price increaes or expansion of the zone, then the only sensible vote can be

 

NO.

[skbuncks]

Where do we vote, gysmo?

Edited November 25, 2008 by skbuncks
fat finger spelling

[Gilbert_O'Sullivan]

Just don't go to Manchester!

 

It's a grotty place anyway.

[europa16]

I would love the chance to vote no to the stupid congestion charge, but up here in Rossendale we don't get a chance.This is even though it will directly affect us.

I've heard one of the proposals is to create a new train or metrolink route from M/cr to Rawtenstall, however the chance of this happening is pretty close to nil - the train line from Bury up here is privately run by the East Lancs Railway with steam trains for god's sake!!

Hopefully we won't be living in the NW by the time this comes into place, if it's voted in (and that's a big IF ).

[gyzmo]

Ballot forms are being sent out to those in the Greater Manchester region on the electoral register.

 

But Europa16 raises a very good point. there are many other people who will be affected by this who get no say. Another reason to vote NO.

[ontologia]

Money For Nothing !

 

(1) What a coincidence, this poll is being held at the most busy period of the year !

 

December is by far the most busy time on the roads as compared to the summer months when it is quiet, this poll to be fair should have been held at a neutral time of year, and threfore is biased from the start.

 

(2) Only a reduction of 15-20% will be achieved by the Congestion Charge by their own figures, such a small achievement for so much cost !!!

 

By 2013 when it will be in place there could be an decrease in traffic volumes anyway.

 

(3) Why is there no alternative ????

 

A few improvements at specific junctions, some widening, would probably create a better easing of congestion for less cost.

 

(4) Average or low income families will be worse off - it is usually cheaper if you have children to go by car, because of the combined cost of paying for an adult and each child, if you are single its a different story.

 

Also, it wouldn't be much of a burden for well off/rich people, or people who get their expenses paid.

(The poor get poorer)

 

(5) Is it as safe to use public transport as to go by car ? You are, by my own experience, subjected to all types of nutters and abuse.... the driver/other passengers, dont involved, for a safe, quiet life ! so suffer the abuse.

 

(6) Where will the money actually go ????

 

It will cost many £millions each year just to run it, ie the cost of a control centre, staff, administration, maintenance of a massive network of thousands of cameras and computer equipment.

 

Only a small portion will actually go into better transport, so efectively - its money for nothing !

Edited December 1, 2008 by ontologia
Spelling

[flyingdoc]

I have to admire the naieve optimism of people who think that this is a real vote where the opinions of those voting will make a blind bit of difference.

 

This is a political decision that has already been made and no amount of voting by the general populace will stop it.

 

But it is nice - that you still believe that we live in a democracy in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary..

[gyzmo]

Probably becasue people would rather vote the next x factor trash than elect a politician or vote on something that is actually important.

[dpick]

Probably becasue people would rather vote the next x factor trash than elect a politician or vote on something that is actually important.

 

I don't know I remember when the gov tried to push through centralized north east referendum that the north east voted a resounding NO.

 

dpick

[europa16]

Perhaps they would get an idea of what people, who cannot vote, will do if it is brought in from this map MapTube Map

[europa16]

The people have spoken...

 

NO!!

 

:D

[jackboy]

I voted No!

 

On the map for the transport improvements, the area I live in wasn't even shown, maybe that was because there were no transport inprovements proposed for my area! So why vote for improvements when I wouldn't have any!

[gyzmo]

Yipee! Common sense prevails - for now.

 

I cannot help but think there will be a second referendum (i.e, a throw your dummy out your pram a la EU over Ireland).

 

Another thng that got me about this:

 

The YES campaigners say that only 1 in 10 will pay. Now given that only a tenth of car drivers would pay, and lets suppose that a third of them do not carry on driving, just how is the fund to be repaid?

 

Let's just hope it remains a moot point - unless those who thought up this scheme come clean and release ALL info on it.