Tax credits

[liz4paris]

I received a few letters from the inland revenue requesting £545 to be returned to them for overpayment of tax credits.

Now being as we supplied alol the correct information at the time (2003/04) can we not dispute this? if so is there a letter best used when doing so. I rang them and was told to dipsute it but repeatedly asked how much i was gong to pay.

My husband and i are sperated now and both live on breadline.

[Mullio]

I'm in the same boat. Anyone know what to do?

[welly]

I would give them a ring and explain everything to them and ask why the over payment was not picked up at the time.

 

Heres some good info and ring them I have always found them helpful and they will help if you cant pay it back

Appealing against a tax credit decision : Directgov - Money tax and benefits

 

Have a read round and you will find the info you want:)

 

Welly;)

[dollies01]

Hiya

You can appeal against the decision, you need to ring and ask them for the appeals form. You will not be asked to repay anything, if it is fair to believe that to your best knowledge your claim was correct.

They wont ask for the money back if its likely to cause your family hardship either............or so they say!

I am currently repaying them £40 a month for a ten grand overpayment (long story lol )

For them to work out how much you can afford to repay, they do a means form, asking what comes in and goes out..........I suggest you are honest with the ins and add at least £30 to all the outs! (they don't check)

good luck

and dont worry, they can't have what you haven't got

[Mullio]

Hi Dollies,

 

I've already done the appeals form. Unfortunately this is the reply when they say "In our view, it was not reasonable to believe these payments were correct" & "You have no right of appeal against my decision".

 

They say a line about "if you have any more information" let them know. I think I may have a trump card here as it was actually the job centre who fast tracked my claim and told me to go for tax credits.

[dollies01]

Just out of interest.............did they charge you a penalty too?

They didnt me, which kinda suggests that they realise the overpayment wasn't my fault.

The whole system stinks, if you ask me, It helps put people in a poverty trap, my husband is even worried about doing overtime, incase he earns more than he is allowed too, and we end up worse off next tax year!

[gerrimcc]

I was in this situation a couple of years ago when tax credits were introduced. I had filled the form in CORRECTLY and sent it off. At that stage I had a new born baby who was very poorly so I didnt have time to read everything in the post.

 

About 5 months later my sister told me what she was getting -alot less than I was, so I thought something was wrong. I phoned the Inland Revenue and went though everything to make sure it was correct. The girl on the phone told me that I would receive a new award notice but didn't say anything was wrong.

 

A while later I received my new award notice to tell me that my payments were going to be stopped - I had no idea why! So I phoned them and was told that apparently when my tax credits claim form was received the computer had not picked up my ex partners income. So they had it at £0 but working 37 hrs. Not my fault but was told I HAD TO PAY IT BACK nearly £2000. They allowed my tax credits to continue but at took a chunk every month.

 

I then went through a separation and had to put in a new single claim that took months. There was still about £600 left to pay back from the overpayment. I started to receive threatening letters demanding the money to be paid back. It was about this time that I seen it on the news, that the Inland Revenue were giving people other options -If the mistake was not the claiments fault they wouldnt have to pay it back! So I tried to claim what I paid to them for the overpayment. Still no success! So Im out of pocket and I still owe them money for their mistake.

 

So anyone who has to repay an overpayment dont hold your breath! They will still take it.

 

Also something that may be useful. If you fill in a claim form and your income at the end of the year is £2000 above what was predicted they wont ask for the overpayment.

[gerrimcc]

Lis4paris

 

Do you know why there was an overpayment? If it was their fault they will argue that they sent out the Award Notice and it was up to you to check it. In hindsight I should have said I never received it. I was also told over the phone by Inland Revenue employees that I would get it all back. But this never happened and they said "that no employee would have told me that" But they did. After joining this site im going to ask for everything ( recorded phone calls letters I sent and received as well as the original correct claim I sent in) before I go to my local counsellor.

 

Hope all goes well for anyone who the Inland Revenue are pressurising for overpayments.

[crward1]

1st post . anyways.... again i'm in the same boat as you guys and strange enough the same happened last year (me spots a pattern). this time they claim they overpaid us £2000 for 4 months, but we never saw anything near that amount.

bbc did a program about tax credits, shocking to say the least! they gave the formula to oxford mathematicians and even with it they could NOT work out the amount someone had been awarded. if top mathematicians can't work it out, how can we?

[meagain]

bbc did a program about tax credits, shocking to say the least! they gave the formula to oxford mathematicians and even with it they could NOT work out the amount someone had been awarded. if top mathematicians can't work it out, how can we?

 

When I was working there, I wasn't able to match the numbers up either, and we had access to information not disclosed to the public!

 

At the very least, maintain contact with the local press and your MP, who will be in a better position to do something. Since you are dealing with a Government department, I am not sure whether you would be dealing with the Crown, which cannot be sued or prosecuted. You will need to take further advice to clarify this if you plan on taking things further.

[busyliz]

totally sympathise with you on this one. We were receiving CTC + WTC, we then sent off our annual review pack, only for them to tell us they were stopping the WTC due to overpayment. Thats £46 a wk WTC down to NOTHING! when we asked why, we were told the figure of earnings on the original form was £8020!? even though I know how much my partner earns-£14,021 per yr and KNOW I filled out the form accurately. I put the phone down on this occasion, then rang up about 20mins later with anougher Q, I then asked that person the amount that was entered on the original claim form and low and behold they gave me the original figure of £14021!!

We had good reason to think they were paying us correctly as when the claim first started we were geting £72 per wk, then after 3 weeks it went down to £46, after ringing up, they said the system had made an error and had now been rectified, it has been at £46 ever since. Its a complete mystry as he hasnt earnt any more this yr than last or changed jobs so it must be their fault.

we have sent off an appeal form and are waiting to hear back.

My partner is changing jobs later this yr and i cant wait to ring them and tell them to stuff their WTC up their arse, its a shame we cant live without the CTC becuase otherwise I would stick my fingers up to the whole system, its a complete shambles.

[dollies01]

Busyliz my sentiments exactly..........sick of being made to feel so bloody grateful to them, when I still get less than my husband pays in anyway!

[meagain]

We had good reason to think they were paying us correctly as when the claim first started we were geting £72 per wk, then after 3 weeks it went down to £46, after ringing up, they said the system had made an error and had now been rectified, it has been at £46 ever since.

 

Sorry, but that is not "good reason to believe payments were correct", that's "blindly assuming that payments were correct". "Good reason" means you exercised due diligence in checking the paperwork, you checked each notice to make sure things like the income figures, working hours, etc. are right. If you didn't do this, you did not have good reason to believe all was well. Blind faith does not qualify.

[Rich44]

if you read the rest of the post instead of that little extract it makes more sense

[meagain]

if you read the rest of the post instead of that little extract it makes more sense

 

I was pointing out that particular bit of information was pointless, before anyone else decides to just read that little extract and then think they've got a case.

[busyliz]

well, we sent off the appeal notice and there was a case because weve just heard back that they did make a blatent mistake and had cancelled the repayments and we will continue to get the WTC, just at a lower rate.

 

BTW, we DID check our award notices and letters they sent us and phoned them on a regular basis. My point is that unless I personally deliver the information to them in person, go onto their computer system and work it out myself, how the hell am i supposed to know THEY'VE made a mistake??!

[suttonh]

Hi i don't know if this helps but for future reference ring your local MP and go and see them.

 

Inland Revenue tried to claim over £2,000 off me last year when it was their error and no matter how many times i appealed they came to the same decision that i did owe them the money it went on for over year and in the end i rang my Local MP and went to see her and she was great and gave her all my correspondence with the Inland Revenue and she said she could help.

 

They have a telephone hotline to the Inland Revenue so once they call the Inland Revenue they have to deal with it within 7 days. My case was dealt with in under a week with a letter admitting it was there fault and a cheque refunding me all the money that they had taken off me for the overpayment.

 

It is worth a try if anyone else is in the same situation.

[meagain]

BTW, we DID check our award notices and letters they sent us and phoned them on a regular basis.

 

Excellent - you won't get much closer to the appeal criteria than this. One of the issues is that, with very few exceptions, you won't receive an award notice unless someone makes a change to your record (other than the manual notes). If you did not receive an award notice for this reason, appellants should expect the benefit of the doubt.

 

As I've said before, the system is horribly broken, but you cannot use that fact as a defence.

[jenny00star]

Don't be ridiculous! The system is horribly broken, something the government were aware would become the case before the tax credits even came into official existence!

 

It is horribly broken rendering it totally useless as it is neither reliable or effective, it also not up to the public to fix the system. The majority of claimants of WFTC give correct information as it is requested of them. Unfortunately year after year there have been flaws in the forms (asking for previous years income & current years hours - which is totally inane if someone didn't work the previous year, but has started in the current year!).

 

The Inland Revenue were aware these problems were going to come about, but had believed they would be able to rectify them within the first 3 years. On realising that this wasn't going to be possible they introduced the penalty system.

 

If they find you to be giving false information, even by innocent omition, they will penalise you. If the error in the information has been an error on their part - they will not penalise you. HOWEVER, despite the fact that you may well have written to them informing them of their error, despite the fact that you may have made 50 phone calls to the 'helpline' (oh the irony!) also informing the drone on the other end of the mistake, unless you receive a correct award notice showing the correct information - they will hold you responsible.

 

So basically, they employ a devious system whereby you lose if you win and you lose if you lose.

 

Welcome to Government ...... and you wonder why so many of these people end up on the front pages of the News Of The World in drug and drink scandals!

 

They are being paid to ruin people's lives.

[meagain]

Don't be ridiculous! The system is horribly broken, something the government were aware would become the case before the tax credits even came into official existence!

 

... and that excuses you from all responsibility why exactly? You have to at least try to make it work on your end, for which you might find some useful info from the link in my sig.

 

The majority of claimants of WFTC give correct information as it is requested of them.

 

The majority of claimants give correct information. The majority of claimaints get correct payments. Coincidence?

 

The Inland Revenue were aware these problems were going to come about, but had believed they would be able to rectify them within the first 3 years.

 

That seems like a perfectly reasonable timescale for getting the procedure right. There are some things you just can't test for, such as receiving tens of thousands of forms in coloured pen and pencil, despite the very clear "Complete in BLACK or BLUE ink" at the top of the form. Granted, they made the mistake of not waiting until their golden handcuff deal with EDS (a.k.a. Every Day Sucks) expired before starting with the IT ...

 

On realising that this wasn't going to be possible they introduced the penalty system.

 

They don't have a penalty system. If the figures don't tally at the end of the year, one side owes the other money. If they feel that they owe you money, they tend to pay it up regardless. If they feel that you owe them money, they'll tell you so, along with why they believe you owe them money. If you disagree, you can appeal (subject to conditions - the most important being that if you have provided estimated figures in the past, you have later provided the actual numbers). See my sig for some useful pointers.

 

If they find you to be giving false information, even by innocent omition, they will penalise you.

 

I assume that by "innocent omition" (sic) you mean "I didn't read the form properly so didn't know I had to tell you that", then quite rightly you owe the Treasury some of our tax pounds. Alternatively, if you believe there was genuine error in communication from HMRC, you might want to look at the link in my sig.

 

HOWEVER, despite the fact that you may well have written to them informing them of their error, despite the fact that you may have made 50 phone calls to the 'helpline' (oh the irony!) also informing the drone on the other end of the mistake,

 

It's an 0845 number. You pay for it. It should be on your phone bill. A photocopy showing some calls (doesn't have to be every one you've made) would easily prove you've at least made an effort. You don't need to pass on details of every call, letter, or visit you've ever made, just a small selection that demonstrates that you've attempted to hold up your end - if you have award notices with incorrect circumstances, point them out along with the letter or details of the call you made when raising it. If you have several correct notices, say so. This and more, in my sig.

 

unless you receive a correct award notice showing the correct information - they will hold you responsible.

 

2 Down: Bovine by-product (4,4)

3 Across: "See my ..." (3)

 

So basically, they employ a devious system whereby you lose if you win and you lose if you lose.

 

So basically, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you've been caught on the wrong end of things, there's a link in my sig. Otherwise, I might have to call in Adam and Jamie to bust the rest of those myths (and maybe blow stuff up too).

 

Enough with the "it's broken" lectures already. I can talk about Tax Credits since I used to work at HMRC on the very same, and thus have a reasonably good idea what I'm talking about - what's your excuse?

[mariep1208]

tax credit overpayment

 

Please check this site out it offers laods of good ideas and valuable info. Byt the way please please please sign the online petition via the link.

 

It amazes me that the TC office expect us to know how they work out our payments and yet they cannot get them right themselves!!!!!

[cleungs1]

there is a link for overpayment of tax credit it might help.

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/b_overpayment_of_tax_credits.pdf

 

oops someone beat me to it

[meagain]

It amazes me that the TC office expect us to know how they work out our payments and yet they cannot get them right themselves!!!!!

 

For the umpteenth time, they do not expect you to know. The expectation is that if the information you have provided is correct, and the information shown on the award notice (which you will have checked closely) is correct, then the payment should be correct.

 

The two main grounds for appeal are:

 

* Official error (there has been some problem with the systems, etc. in processing your claim)

* The payments were incorrect, but you had good reason to believe they were correct

 

A summary of the argument for appeal is this:

 

1. Where an overpayment has arisen, this implies that the original payments were incorrect.

2. Where you have reported information correctly (to the best of your knowledge) and promptly (within a month of any change), it can be assumed that the information was received.

3. Where the information on the award notice is correct, it can be assumed that the payment is correct.

4. You reported the information as required, and the award notices were correct, so you were entitled to assume the payments were correct. Thus, is it not your fault that payments were incorrect.

 

If you received incorrect notices, the expectation is that you will have checked it, found the information to be wrong, and reported it.

[kennyh]

Also having served in HMCS for 22+ years I believe that meagain gives the agencies concerned too much credence (#20) and 'assumes' (or encourages others to do so) far too much(#22).

I KNOW the standard of staff being recruited (as long ago as the days of HM Civil Service Commissioners) and I am under NO illusions as to their capabilities and just how does meagain know that the 'majority' of customers or recipients of allowances are receiving the correct amounts. Is there a set of stats that we are not privy to?

[Guest S J]

The 2 grounds of appeal cited are not grounds for an appeal at all....official error is only a ground in other benefits...