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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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"The letter" regarding libel case


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..... I haven't even donated yet but can imagine those who have and are on benefits will be rather peeved.

 

I'm on benefits, have contributed, and will do again as soon as I can.

 

Well I donated earlier and have no regrets about doing so and will do so again when I can. Having got to know how selfless the admins at CAG have behaved over the last 2 1/2 years since I first joined BAG or CAG as it is now, I fully back the way they have dealt with this and don't feel I have been misled in any way.

 

Carry on BF :)

 

Well said Bovvered.

 

To be honest, I am just going to start stating the same thing over and over again.

 

The CAG does not have the CHOICE whether to give in to the blackmail or not and just post the apology - they CANNOT AFFORD TO DO ANYTHING OTHER.

 

If they do not, and defend the claim, they are risking the site, and all the donations offered, on a fruitless cause.

 

We've seen a few references to Churchills wartime speeches on here in the last couple of days.

 

It seems Lord Haw-haw is around too ... "LB calling... LB calling..."

 

Go for it BF and Dave, I think we have to trust your judgement and let you decide what's best.

 

Cheers

Rob

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Just because Mr Shed is advocating apologising doesn't make him one of the enemy, does it? I thought this was a site where people were allowed to have their own opinions. He is entitled to his opinion, just because it may not agree with the party line doesn't make it wrong.

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Just because Mr Shed is advocating apologising doesn't make him one of the enemy, does it? I thought this was a site where people were allowed to have their own opinions. He is entitled to his opinion, just because it may not agree with the party line doesn't make it wrong.

No hes not the enemy, hes expressing his views and while i dont agree with them i will defend his right to hold those view for sure;)

 

however, the point is that you should never back down from a situation which you are in the right and believe in what you are doing

 

Did Morris and Steel in the Mclibel case back down? no they went all the way to the EctHR and won, the little man can win, but to simply give in, (when you know all the facts as they are) is not an option, this site is about fighting for what you believe in, standing up to bully tactics, and doing what is right.

 

imagine if Churchill had taken this view that Germany is just too strong so we should give up?i mean the Germans were better equipped than us, more heavily resourced than us, its the same scenario really, just different opponents ,what would have happened then?

 

it is not a real option to back down, given what is the facts of the case.

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Just because Mr Shed is advocating apologising doesn't make him one of the enemy, does it? I thought this was a site where people were allowed to have their own opinions. He is entitled to his opinion, just because it may not agree with the party line doesn't make it wrong.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that people are entitled to their opinion, and I respect Mr Sheds opinion. I thought twice before commenting, and didn't really want to be part of the in-fighting amongst ourselves, but decided to go ahead as he does seem to be getting rather forceful with that opinion.

 

Sorry if I upset you, but that's just my opinion.

 

Cheers

Rob

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No offence taken ;) but thanks for sticking up for me Wendy :)

 

We are indeed 110% on the same side, and both have the same end result in mind - the continued success of the forum. It is just that on this issue, we wholly disagree about the route to take to come to this same end result.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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No offence taken ;) but thanks for sticking up for me Wendy :)

 

We are indeed 110% on the same side, and both have the same end result in mind - the continued success of the forum. It is just that on this issue, we wholly disagree about the route to take to come to this same end result.

Of course wendy's going to stick up for you, she's a prominent member over the road :rolleyes:

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Even if you look at the disaster scenario there are many options. If CAG ceased to exist the members would still be here on other sites, I think most are registered there anyway I know I am on two others I just prefer this site.

 

The value of the site is its members who will always be posting somewhere.

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I have 5 kids and am trying to sort out xmas for them on a budget of 300 as well as two of them having birthdays in the next few weeks, moneys tight but I have donated and will continue to donate,

 

I do not belive that an apology will end things, this issue has been dragged up so many times that the only way to end it once and for all is to fight back, Thank you for being open and posting the letter as it gives everyone the chance to make up their own minds. I used this site back when the incident first came out and it caused alot of upset, please lets not let that happen again

 

all my best

Sam

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Of course wendy's going to stick up for you, she's a prominent member over the road :rolleyes:

 

And your point is?

 

Am I prominent?? I have not hidden the fact that I am a member of LB. My user name is the same over here as there. To my knowledge I've never spoken to Mr Shed before and if he is a member of LB then it must be under a different name.

 

I was merely pointing out that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have mine, Mr Shed has his, you have yours. To be honest, from Robcaqs post I thought he was saying that Mr Shed was like Lord Haw Haw, I was trying to point out that he wasn't an LB spy or troll or whatever, just an individual with his own opinion. End of.

 

I personally just happen to agree with Mr Shed, that's all.

 

To be honest, I fail to see what being a member of LB or not has to do with this in this instance. I am not brainwashed and any posts are made under my own capacity, with my own thoughts. I call it as I see it. Surely if I really wanted this site to close down, I would be disagreeing with Mr Shed and urging CAG to go for it, lose all their money and bankrupt the site, wouldn't I? It has already been pointed out on various threads, both here and on LB, that none of the members want an us and them situation. Some are actively trying to avoid this. Others, it would seem, take every opportunity to encourage it and bring it to the fore.

 

I post on both sites and try to help where I can. If you have a problem with this, then please say so. if I'm not welcome over here then please let me know and I won't come back.

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And your point is?

 

Am I prominent?? I have not hidden the fact that I am a member of LB. My user name is the same over here as there. To my knowledge I've never spoken to Mr Shed before and if he is a member of LB then it must be under a different name.

 

I was merely pointing out that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have mine, Mr Shed has his, you have yours. To be honest, from Robcaqs post I thought he was saying that Mr Shed was like Lord Haw Haw, I was trying to point out that he wasn't an LB spy or troll or whatever, just an individual with his own opinion. End of.

 

I personally just happen to agree with Mr Shed, that's all.

 

To be honest, I fail to see what being a member of LB or not has to do with this in this instance. I am not brainwashed and any posts are made under my own capacity, with my own thoughts. I call it as I see it. Surely if I really wanted this site to close down, I would be disagreeing with Mr Shed and urging CAG to go for it, lose all their money and bankrupt the site, wouldn't I? It has already been pointed out on various threads, both here and on LB, that none of the members want an us and them situation. Some are actively trying to avoid this. Others, it would seem, take every opportunity to encourage it and bring it to the fore.

 

I post on both sites and try to help where I can. If you have a problem with this, then please say so. if I'm not welcome over here then please let me know and I won't come back.

So you are saying you're not part of her little clique then??

You've never signed in here under another name to wind people up like the others have?

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@ callumsgran / WendyB

 

These comments are not helping anybody. Please stop the squabbling.

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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So you are saying you're not part of her little clique then??

You've never signed in here under another name to wind people up like the others have?

 

Sorry, I wasn't aware we had to nail our colours to the mast as a condition of posting over here..

 

Can I direct you to this part of my previous post:-

It has already been pointed out on various threads, both here and on LB, that none of the members want an us and them situation. Some are actively trying to avoid this. Others, it would seem, take every opportunity to encourage it and bring it to the fore.

 

Your reply seems to prove my point doesn't it.

 

I have insulted no-one in my posts and fail to see the point of your question - or is it an accusation?

 

For the record, No, I have never signed in under a different name. I don't have a different name. I am WendyB over here and have been since the day i joined. Same as I am over there. You must have missed that bit because I already said that in my previous post.

 

And to be honest, I also fail to see why I should answer your question at all. But I have anwered it. If it's not to your satisfaction, then fine. If you have any further constructive questions for me, please do post them, I'll gladly answer them. But do bear in mind the topic. I'm sure the other readers don't want to be bored to death with off topic stuff that has no bearing on the libel case whatsoever.

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Barracad, I wasn't squabbling. Squabbling is something which generally happens in the playground from the ages of 5 to 10. I was trying to be reasonable. Callumsgran asked me a question. I answered it. The point which I was originally trying to make was that everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinion. Sorry if this was the wrong thing to do......

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People.

 

You are boring me.

 

I fully support the integrity of the sites founders, and their decision to defend the claim. They have my support 100%.

 

I will, like others, donate what i can, when i can.

If the site has to close at the end of this, then so be it.

That is out of my hands.

But if the people who have benefited from it in ANY WAY have anything to do with it, then it should be around forever.

 

You don't have to agree with the decision to defend, but your constant criticism is doing nothing but casting doubts in peoples minds.

 

If you support the decision, put up.

 

If not, shut up.

 

You dont have to donate or log on.

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.

 

NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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The point which I was originally trying to make was that everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinion.

 

Everyone's opinion is always welcome. Not everyone will agree with what is happening, but we still welcome your posts and opinions even if this is not the case.

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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m it in ANY WAY have anything to do with it, then it should be around forever.

 

You don't have to agree with the decision to defend, but your constant criticism is doing nothing but casting doubts in peoples minds.

 

If you support the decision, put up.

 

If not, shut up.

 

You dont have to donate or log on.

 

If I dont agree with it, I am quite entitled to say so thank you very much tony - just as much as you are allowed to say you DO.

 

Clearly, as I dont agree with it, part of my intention IS to put doubt in peoples minds - as I feel it is the wrong thing to do!

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Oh my God! Is this argument still going on, I gave CAG a rest last night for the first time in months and I came on here this morning in the hopes that everyone had calmed down and we were back to helping each other with the real enemy..the DCA's.

 

To say I'm dissapointed is an understatement.

 

I'm with you Tonycee, we all know each others point of view on this (we should know by now) and as people are determined not to agree...lets just agree to disagree and get back to doing what we are so passionate in protecting!

 

Help out the newbies!

Advice given is my opinion only, I am not a legal or financial expert (far from it).

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My sentiments exactly MONX, it is becoming very depressing to see this continuing.

 

I think those in opposition have made their opinions very clear, they do NOT have to be repeated. We are all grown ups and hopefully have minds of our own. All the information has been made available, it would be foolish to continue posting comments/information that could potentially be damaging.

 

Now can we please move on.:(

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Subbing in: Anyone tell me what is LB? and where to find the bones of the dispute cheers. This site has helped us no end, saved us from the brink of bankruptcy, more than willing to donate.

Donate to keep this site open

 

Any help or advice is offered as just that, help and advice without any liability. If in doubt consult a legal expert or CAB.

 

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Whether someone feels the apology is right or wrong is irrelevent. Despite the letter from the solicitor I feel that the person in the middle of this would be extremely disappointed if that is what she got from Dave and Marc. From reading here and over at the other site I get a feeling that she would much prefer CAG not to exist, this is just my opinion mind you.

 

The person in the middle openly admits what she has done on her website and she has not apologised for abusing individual's privacy by posting private conversations in a public domain, or indeed for having held onto money that was not hers and that required a court order to be paid back.

 

I don't know what was said about this person. I don't know how offended she was, but from reading solely the letter that her solicitor has sent and then the copy and paste job that follows it, it is my opinion that the person doesn't care about an apology at all. I would be very surprised if action stopped if Dave and Marc apologised, but that is just my opinion.

Beating the DCA's day by day

 

My fight:

NDR - CCA'd 12+2 passed

Bank of Scotland - CCA'd 12+2 passed

CFS - Win by Technical Knock-out!:lol:

HFC Bank - CCA'd 12+2 passed

Chantry Collections - CCA sent

 

Time flies like an arrow

Fruit flies like a banana :D

 

<---------- Have I given you top advice, have I made you laugh, click on the scales, it won't hurt you! :grin:

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LB has not instructed a solicitor or started legal action.

 

A member of the site team has.

 

That is a fact.

 

There are members from that site who are also trying to put this mess right.

 

Personally I think it would be better to let the people involved in what has been a long running dispute sort it . Lets all think about that and all back off and give them a chance to try and avoid any further action.

 

Somebody on each site needs to get a grip on the situation and let the persons involved come to a mutual agreement.

 

And IMO it would all go away.

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Bookworm

 

Please do not make the sweeping assumption that all users of LB are the same. We are all individuals with different views and opinions. The same as users of this site. I do find your comments sometimes have a very sarcastic tone. If posters are trying to help the site and are well known to use both sites I dont think you should always assume that they are here to cause trouble. From some of the comments I have seen on here since the campaign has started there have been just as many snide and vicious remarks coming from users here. And two wrongs do not make a right.

 

There has been a lot of good work going on on both sites and we dont want it destroyed by throw away remarks.

 

Personally I think this whole situation is quite serious and maybe you should keep that in mind when posting.

 

IMO

Edited by HSBCrusher

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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