BCW - reprise (a legal notification)

[davey_weir]

Seen as though no one replied before, Im reposting asking for help.

 

Here is the letter I received from BCW (yawn)

 

Pursuers: O2 UK Limited

 

Principal Sum £714.85

 

BCW Ref

 

Client Ref

 

LEGAL NOTIFICATION

Dear Sirs

 

Despite repeated requests for payment your overdue debt, in the sum of £714.85 with our clients O2 UK Limited remains outstanding. Accordingly, documents can now be prepared for the issue of a Claim against you in your Local Court.

 

ONCE JUDGEMENT OR DECREE HAS BEEN GRANTED THE FOLLOWING CAN TAKE PLACE:

1. Your debt being increased to include Legal costs and interest

   
   

2. Your name being entered in the Public Records of your Local Court

   
   

3. Your Credit Worthiness being adversely affected for future Credit & Mortgage Application

   
   

IF THERE IS CONTINUING NON-PAYMENT THEREAFTER:

1. An application is made to your employer for an attachment of earnings

   
   

2. An Officer of the Court can/may be instructed to Sieze your Assets

   
   

To avoid action being taken, payment must be made immediately. You can bla bla bla bla

 

And then this daft computer generated scrawl for and on behalf of BCW.

 

Anyone got any advice for me?

[berrylover]

Ok, I am presuming you are disputing the bill right? Can I ask why you are disputing it, and what proof you have?

[mr.ton]

Let them take you to a county court...then the court will have to take into account all your essential outgoings (bills,clothes, food, travel costs etc...) & be left with paying them £1 per month or something.

That should shut the pompous gits up

[ODC]

I note they said documents CAN now be prepared not that documents are actually being prepared;)

[davey_weir]

Ok, I am presuming you are disputing the bill right? Can I ask why you are disputing it, and what proof you have?

 

I had a contract with o2 and was mis-sold an upgrade. I had been upgrading for a few years then was told I was on a sim only contract. I explained I had been upgrading for years and they admitted it was their mistake and I could continue upgrading.

 

A year later I tried upgrading again and was told I would have to go onto another tarrif that "would save me money anyway."

 

I called them 2 weeks into it saying I was concerned about my usage. They told me they would "extend my cooling off period from 14 days to the next bill date and if I didnt see a difference to call back and they would do something about it."

 

I called back and they told me that they would put me back on a sim only contract. That way I could request cancellation and 30 days later it would be cancelled with no charges. They also waived the bill. I requested a jiffy envelope to send the handset back, which they sent.

 

The jiffy envelope came with a prepaid label. I packed the handset in and went the post office. The envelope was pre paid so I didnt request a receipt or anything like that. I just put my trust in Postman Pat.

 

I received a letter from Wescott saying I owed o2 £711. This was the 18 month contract multiplied by the monthly line rental. I quizzed this and they said to ring o2. I called o2 and was told that they hadnt received the handset and that the handset had been used in Liverpool close to my home address. I told them I was now on orange and had been for a long time. I contacted Wescott who told o2 they would not deal with the case any further and returned it to o2. They were satisfied I had no case to answer.

 

Imagine my surprise when I received a letter from Buchanan Clark & Wells asking for £711. I contacted them and they were not helpful in the slightest. They wouldnt listen. They asked me to prove I had sent the handset back, which I couldnt. The woman said "how do I know you havent just sold it on ebay." Superb, mature comment. Anyway, after a bit of arguing I decided to hang up as I wasnt being listened to.

 

I received numerous phone calls to my mobile phone, I dont know where they got my new telephone number from, but I asked who it was and again entered into a slanging match with the agent. I hung up.

 

I have now had a letter claiming legal action is to be taken against me. I would quite happily go to court, however I have no proof of delivery seen as though o2 sent me a prepaid label and jiffy envelope. I had sent phones back in the past without problem.

 

I faxed OFCOM with my complaint and also included the letter from BCW.

 

I spoke to consumerrights.com and they said the following:

 

"Based on the information you have provided the key legal points in response to your enquiry are as follows: You are being pursued for £700 in relation to a mobile contract that was cancelled within the cooling-off period.

Only the court can actually order you to pay a claimed debt. To get such an order, a trader must provide proof that the debt is owed. If they cannot do so, the court would not make such an order.

At this stage, we would advise that you send the collection agency a recorded delivery letter, keeping a copy for your records, asking for proof that you owe a debt. Make it clear that without such proof, you will enter no further correspondence or discussion over this matter, and may consider further requests for payment to be harrassment.

You should also send o2 a recorded delivery letter, outlining everything to date, and giving a deadline to resolve the matter within a set period of time (i.e. 14 days). Make it very clear what you are claiming from them - that they ensure any further collection activity is ceased. It is also worth retaining copies of everything sent, for your records.

If you require any further advice or information about this case, please do not hesitate to contact Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06 quoting the case reference number."

 

I am now going to write to both BCW and o2. But I wanted to throw some stuff in like Data Protection, like harrassment. I just wanted some advice on writing the letter and, if there are any templates on this site, as I know there are millions

[berrylover]

Ok then, send this to BCW

 

Dear Sir,

 

Account no:

 

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

 

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Please treat this also as a formal complaint, and send me a copy of your company complaints procedure.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed.

 

Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

DONT SIGN IT, print your name, send it recorded delivery and sit back.

[davey_weir]

Effing superbia!

 

I love this site.

 

Consumerdirect told me to also write to o2?

[berrylover]

Send more or less the same letter to them. But obviously put the in the bits as you have explained here that they said you could upgrade, then gave you an extended cooling off period and that you returned the phone in the jiffy bag they provided for you.

 

If they continue with the claim that you owe them money send them a SAR request with a £10 postal order and ask for everything they hold on file for you regarding this account.

[davey_weir]

How does this sound: (apologies for the font size!)

You are pursuing me via a debt collection agency for £714 in relation to a mobile telephone contract, which I was miss-sold and cancelled during an extended cooling off period.

 

I am yet to receive a response to my previous letter dated 29th November 2007, a copy of which is attached to refresh your memory. Therefore, I was left with no alternative other than to write to you again.

 

I became an o2 customer approximately 10 years ago on a pay as you go online tariff offering me 300 free texts per month. As time went on my usage increased, thus raising the amount of money I spent. The amount was such that o2 regularly rewarded me with 20% credit back and on one occasion offered me a free mobile phone.

 

I eventually decided that I would save money if I went onto a pay monthly plan. Everything was fine until I came to upgrade for a fourth time if my memory serves me correctly. I was informed my tariff was sim only and that an upgrade was not allowed. I explained that I had upgraded before and, after some conversation with an advisor and a supervisor, it was decided that the error was o2’s and that I would be allowed to upgrade.

 

One year later and I tried to upgrade. Again the same situation. I explained to the advisor what had happened the previous year and the conversation with the supervisor. The advisor told me this no longer stood and that “If you want a handset you have to come off sim only and go into another contract. But, the new plan will save you money anyway.” I agreed and was sent a handset. Two weeks into my plan I called o2 to express my concern at my current unbilled usage. I was told “you will see the savings when your bill comes through. I will extend the cooling off period until your next bill. If you’re not happy call us back and we will do something about it.”

 

My next bill arrived and was extortionate. I called o2 AGAIN to voice my displeasure. I explained I was leaving o2 to go to orange and would like to cancel. The advisor told me to revert back to my sim only plan as I was only bound into a 30-day period and it would cost me 30 days’ line rental to cancel, to which I agreed. I requested a jiffy pack to send the handset back, which arrived a few days later along with a prepaid label. I packaged the handset and took it to my local post office. Being prepaid it didn’t occur to me that I would require proof of postage. I simply placed my trust in the postal service.

 

I regarded this to be the end of the matter.

 

I received a letter from Wescott stating I owed o2 the sum of approximately £714. I queried this and they referred me back to o2. I called o2 who told me they had not received the handset. The advisor also explained it had been used in the Liverpool area. I explained it hadn’t been used by me as I was now on orange and had sent the handset back. The conversation ended.

 

Wescott sent me another letter so I contacted them to explain. Wescott were satisfied I had no case to answer and told me they I would hear no more from them, which I didn’t.

 

I recently received a letter from Buchanan Clark & Wells requesting the sum of approximately £714 that I owed to o2. I contacted BCW to question this and to explain that I had already had communication with another credit agency that closed the case. However, the agent at BCW was purely abrupt, uninterested in what I was trying to say and simply accused me of “selling it on ebay” and demanded I pay. Because of the arrogance of this agent and the fact that she constantly interrupted me I hung up.

 

Since then I received a phone call from BCW. Again, the agent was rude and uninterested in anything I attempted to say, constantly interrupting me and demanding the full payment. Again, I hung up. To date I think I have received six telephone calls from whom I presume are BCW. I regard this as harassment under section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

In light of this, I would like your assurance that any further collection activity will cease.

 

If I receive no further communication within 14 days of the date of this letter, I will conclude the matter resolved.

 

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

 

Yours truly,

Edited September 11, 2008 by davey_weir
Font Size

[davey_weir]

Hi all

 

I sent a recorded letter on 12th September, both BCW & o2 received it 2 days later signed for. The letters were sent in response to this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/159499-bcw-reprise-legal-notification.html

 

It has been nearly a month, do I just assume that this account has been cancelled and cleared? If so, how do I get rid of it from my credit report?

[maroondevo52]

Threads Merged..................

 

davey-weir,

 

Please stick to one thread per case, as more than one can cause confusion.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[davey_weir]

Bump

[davey_weir]

 

In light of this, I would like your assurance that any further collection activity will cease.

 

If I receive no further communication within 14 days of the date of this letter, I will conclude the matter resolved.

 

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

 

Yours truly,

 

Hay, its been quite some time now since I sent the letters to BCW & O2. I have received no further communication from BCW nor O2, and therefore no acknowlegement or proof of any debt.

 

The next step I wish to take is to get the default removed from my credit record that, no doubt has been there for about a year. Does anybody have any idea of a letter to write to o2 basically concluding the matter, requesting that they close the account & dispute and also remove the default from my credit file.

 

Any help would be much appreciated as I cant WAIT to get this matter resolved and prove that it isnt always the companies who have power!

[Jesteruk]

I would hate to be the bearer of bad news but, i doubt this has or will go away. O2 probably just ignored your letter, and will no doubt pass it onto another DCA.

 

One way to get the default removed would be to contact O2 and request the removal. You could also issue them with a S.10 request (Which i cant find at the moment). This removes O2's authority to process your data. Normally you would give them 14 days to cease and remove all data. If after that time period, you should then issue them with a "Letter before Action" basically threatening them with court action unless the balance is wiped and removed from your file.

Unless O2 do what has been requested then you will have to apply to the courts for this to be done.

 

Give me 10 mins to find draft a suitable response.

[Jesteruk]

Here you go stick this in there pipe and let them smoke it!

 

Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998

and

Notice of intended Data Protection Act complaint.

 

 

 

 

Re: account no.

Account holder.

Address.

Further to my letter dated XX/XX/XX.

Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this letter any information about myself.

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

Within 7 days I expect you to do the following:

• Clear any outstanding amount and set the account to zero
  
• Remove any information and defaults placed on my Credit File
  

Further take notice That I intend to make a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner and to the Courts that you unlawfully hold, process and distribute inaccurate information about me should you ignore this request

I also require within 7 days a copy of your companies complaints procedures in writing

 

This is in addition to any rights which I may choose to enforce under the law of defamation.

 

signed

 

TYPE NAME HERE DO NOT SIGN

 

 

DATE HERE

 

After 14 days have passed from this letter and they are still processing your data, then a LBA will be required, after which time you can then file a court claim against them,

 

Good luck

[davey_weir]

Great Stuff that, do you also have the Letter before Action?

 

Also, should I send this recorded?

[Jesteruk]

Print 2 copies and send one of them by recorded/signed delivery, keep all reciepts. I will come back later with a LBA for ya - time for work

 

Remeber DO NOT SIGN THEM!

[emmaf01]

Also, remember to say that as the phone was not used after the date you posted it by you, you are reporting it as fraudulently used from that date. Ask for details so you can report it to the police and Royal Mail.

[davey_weir]

UPDATE:

 

Following my letter to BCW & o2, BCW have chosen to reply to me:

 

October 29, 2008

 

REF: B7819130

Puruers (spelling?!): O2 Telefonica UK Ltd

Client Ref: 1002190619

 

Dear Me

 

I write with regard to your letter of September 11, 2008, issued in relation to the aforementioned account. Please accept our apologies for the delay in responding.

 

I have enclosed our internal complaints procedure as requested.

 

With regard to your liability of the outstanding balance, I can only reiterate the advice given in our previous two calls to this office. Our client has advised that this balance is outstanding and instructed us to pursue accordingly. Until you are able to furnish us with evidence that you are not liable or instruction to withdraw is received from our client, we will continue recovery action.

 

Should you wish to obtain documents advising on how this balance was accrued, we are instructed to advise that a £4.99 charge will be levied for a full itemized statement. A basic invoice is available and carries no fee.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us on 0871 7001577 should you require any further assistance. You can also email on [email protected]

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Signature

 

Darren Carruthers

Quality Assurance Officer

 

I still have received nothing at all from o2. Its been about 10 days since I send the s.10 to them.

 

Were do I go from here?

bcwgroup plc

[ODC]

Dear Cretins

 

Your understanding of the law appears wrong. The burden of proof that a debt actually exists between myself and your client rests with you. It is not for me to prove that no debt exists. To date you have fgailed to supply ANY proof.

[davey_weir]

Dear Cretins

 

Your understanding of the law appears wrong. The burden of proof that a debt actually exists between myself and your client rests with you. It is not for me to prove that no debt exists. To date you have fgailed to supply ANY proof.

 

Is that all I should write? Should I email it and print off a hard copy?

 

What ultimatum should I give?

[davey_weir]

Here you go stick this in there pipe and let them smoke it!

 

 

Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998

and

Notice of intended Data Protection Act complaint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: account no.

Account holder.

Address.

 

Further to my letter dated XX/XX/XX.

 

Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this letter any information about myself.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

 

 

Within 7 days I expect you to do the following:

• Clear any outstanding amount and set the account to zero
  
• Remove any information and defaults placed on my Credit File
  

Further take notice That I intend to make a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner and to the Courts that you unlawfully hold, process and distribute inaccurate information about me should you ignore this request

I also require within 7 days a copy of your companies complaints procedures in writing

 

This is in addition to any rights which I may choose to enforce under the law of defamation.

 

signed

 

TYPE NAME HERE DO NOT SIGN

 

 

DATE HERE

 

 

After 14 days have passed from this letter and they are still processing your data, then a LBA will be required, after which time you can then file a court claim against them,

 

Good luck

 

Ok, so I sent the s.10 on the 20th October and it is now the 31st. 7 days have elapsed, BCW sent me their complaints procedure yesterday, o2 havent been in touch. They have 3 days before I need to deliver an LBA.

 

Any advice for me?

[davey_weir]

UPDATE!!

 

Received this today from o2:

 

Our reference: xxxxxxx

Mobile Phone Number: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear Mr Me

 

Thank you for your recent letters regarding the above mobile phone.

 

I'm sorry to hear of your concerns regarding contact you've received for the outstanding amount on your account.

 

I can see that we extended your cooling off period and provided a jiffy bag for you to return your phone to us, to take you out of contract taken out in July 2007. Unfortunately, as you're already aware, we've never received the return of your phone.

 

I can see that you were misinformed about your text message allowance in July 2007, and so we credited you back for these charges that you were billed. Your account was credited in July 2007 with £96.84 including VAT.

 

Prior to your final bill, you had £239.51 outstanding on your account. A termination fee was applied due to non receipt of the phone, and this brought the total amount due, to £714.85. This amount stands and has not been brought to a nil balance as requested.

 

I'm sorry that this isn't the response you were looking for, but I've enclosed written confirmation of our complaints process as you requested.

 

If you have any further questions, please contact me or one of my colleagues on 0845 3300684. Our department is open between 8am and 6.30pm, Monday to Friday.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Simone Tiffin

Complaint Review Service

 

In their complaints process it states:

 

"An independant view" Whereby I can contact Otelo. But, BCW told me to prove that I owed nothing, which I am not obliged to do. Infact they, by law, are required to prove that I owe the debt, which they havent done, and why I am writing to them to make them aware that they have misunderstood the law.

 

I am willing to go all the way with this. Anyone got any advice on next steps??

Edited November 3, 2008 by davey_weir
Posted my surname!!

[Jesteruk]

Sadly that letter provides the proof of debt

 

BUT

 

this is clearly a dspute between yoursleves and O2, and therefore BCW should return the debt to them as it is a disputed debt.

 

 

the worse thing is you cant provide the proof that the phone was sent back, it wouldnt surprise me if it got lost at O2, with the amount of phones they get back every day!

 

The following letter might get BCW off your case, and possibly sending OS a letter to advise them that by forwarding it to BCW is in breach of the OFT guidlines:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the O2 and has been since INSERT DATE. This is in breach of OFT collection guidelines,

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the O2 for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as BCW cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

If BCW chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I may initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading and the Information Commissioners Office.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in breach of a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status

of debts, for example, not providing requested balance statements when reasonably requested

Physical/psychological harassment

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

Disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

Edited November 3, 2008 by Jesteruk

[davey_weir]

Great shout, Ill send this off ASAP. Im really tempted to let it go the whole hog and show my face in court vs o2.

 

Theres a post up here saying that I should say that clearly the phone was used when I wasnt in posession of it. Also that BCW do not know the law.