*** NOT an offence after 12+2 & 30 days for CCA ***

[babybear39]

Thanks for that pt2537

 

I've been 'screaming' it all over the forum since I got the letter from TS

 

Early June, I think...

[msowing]

Thanks for the info. I dont even know who has the debt anymore so will wait for OC to write to me further.

[babybear39]

Hi msowing,

 

Best to start your own thread...

 

If you go back to the list of threads on this section there's a button that says that

 

Saves getting answers mixed.

[oldrectory]

Hi

 

This thread is useful but a little confusing!

 

So a little clarity would be appreciated!

 

If I make a CCA request to a company on a pre 08 CCA and they don't produce it in the 12 + 2 days, do I still have to make payments?

 

From what I can see if they don't produce it they cannot enforce it until they find it.

 

Please clarify

 

Thanks

 

Oldrectory

[babybear39]

Hi

 

This thread is useful but a little confusing!

 

So a little clarity would be appreciated!

 

If I make a CCA request to a company on a pre 08 CCA and they don't produce it in the 12 + 2 days, do I still have to make payments?

 

From what I can see if they don't produce it they cannot enforce it until they find it.

 

Please clarify

 

Thanks

 

Oldrectory

 

Only the summary criminal offence was revoked, everything else stays

 

But the CPUTR 2008 overides the getin' rid of the SCO

[PriorityOne]

People used to get very excited about the summary criminal defence part of a CCA default, but in reallity it meant very little anyway (as previously said) because the regulatory bodies did b*gger all about it... so the fact that it's no longer applicable just saves us from bashing our heads against a brick wall for nothing....

[oldrectory]

Hi,

Sorry what does CPUTR 2008 overides the gettin' rid of the SCO mean?

 

Thanks

[babybear39]

Hi,

Sorry what does CPUTR 2008 overides the gettin' rid of the SCO mean?

 

Thanks

 

'ave a little read, it's all explained in each section by BF

[berrylover]

'ave a little read, it's all explained in each section by BF

 

Sorry, maybe I am being dim, but what do I read? Saturday morning postings have left me woolly headed, lol.

[babybear39]

Sorry, maybe I am being dim, but what do I read? Saturday morning postings have left me woolly headed, lol.

 

I was sure I posted the link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/146460-consumer-protection-unfair-trading.html

 

Sorry...

[Pinky69]

I like the debt collector's stlye - asking people to tinkle his scales, saying his post should be a sticky then telling us all the help he has given people - he is nothing if not arrogant!! Why does that come as no surprise??

[berrylover]

I always feel that the debt collector is desperately wanting to us to see him as a useful inside link, but unfortunately is being perceived as a bit of a toadie. I would say shame, but nah, he is still a debt collector!

[JOSH_IOU]

May be easier for individuals to understand if you say it is not a criminal offence but it is unlawful.

 

The supposed agreement made between debtor and creditor may not be enforced if the creditor can not supply the agreement under the CCA act.

 

So in reality the creditor is demanding money off an individual and the company has no lawful grounds to do this.

 

Would this summarise the previous posts accuratly?

 

Appologise for the spelling.

[Angel 2222]

Hi,

 

I dont really know much about this but I recently requested a copy of my CCA and the 12 plus 2 days is up today. I have read that the law has now changed and they have not committed an offence by not providing the CCA. Is this correct? Does this mean they are not in default?

 

I found a template to send after the 12 plus 2 days but not sure if it is correct. Would someone be able to let me know if it is? And if not, would anyone have a standard letter I could send to them at this point.

 

Its all a little confusing for me. In the meantime the NatWest are harassing me on the phone so I am keen to get it sorted. I just don’t want to be sending them letters whereby what I am stating is incorrect.

 

In my first letter at the time I thought they had to respond within 42 days as I didn’t know it had changed and I wrote in my formal letter requesting the CCA that they have 42 days to provide it. Do you think this matters?

 

Any advice would be really appreciated!

 

Thanks

Template Letter:

Dear Sir/Madam

 

DEFAULT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

FAILURE TO PRODUCE AGREEMENT

ACCOUNT NUMBER ***

 

I wrote to you by Recorded Delivery (Ref **) on 1st October 2008 asking for a copy of the above agreement together with the relevant information under Section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing a £1.00 cheque as the fee payable. This letter was delivered and signed for on 2nd October 2008.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enters into a default situation. This occurred on 23rd October 2008.

 

I have still neither received a copy of the agreement as required by S78 Consumer Credit Act 1974, nor any other information relating to same. As such, this account has become unenforceable by law. As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) As such, now that the 12 working days have expired (from your receipt of the request for the agreement and supporting documents) the account is now in dispute. Whilst it remains in dispute the agreement is unenforceable.

 

Whilst it is unenforceable, no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. The account cannot be passed to a Debt Collection Agency. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the CCA request expiring (23rd October 2008).

 

Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act 199

 

Furthermore, under the Data Protection Act (D10), you are also denied the authority to pass on any of my personal data. To do so in the circumstances is I understand a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and also the OFT guidelines, and should you ignore my request it would again result in you being further reported to the relevant authorities.

 

I also require that you remove all my data from your files within the next 7 days and look forward to receiving a letter from you within 10 days confirming that you have complied with this request.

 

Yours faithfully

[Monty2007]

There has been much discussion on this topic and quite frankly it comes down to enforcement. Trading Standards won't enforce a breach of this part of the CCA, infact they are reluctant to get involved at all and their position is to generally leave it to the courts to sort out. I have been through the process with Cambridge TS and West Lothian TS, neither had the resources or interest to get involved. They ask the questions, "did you use the card?" and "is it your debt?".

 

I have never heard of any OC or DCA being prosecuted for breach of this part of the 1974 CCA - has anyone?

[Vampyra]

I just wanted to add that although I knew after the 12+2 they had committed an offence, I had never heard of anyone getting a prosecution on this and I was also aware that if they came back with a CA within the time before a debt was statute barred, I was always lead to believe if it was good to go, it could be enforced, though a judge may ask why it took so long and could make some sort of ruling in the debtors favour.

[Newborn]

Babybear39, I’ve followed your reasoning and have always totally agreed with you on this issue.

 

Regarding monty2007’s experience of TS asking the questions, "did you use the card?" and "is it your debt?". Should the response not be:

 

“This is an irrelevant question. The question you (TS) should ask is “has the creditor/DCA attempted to enforce a debt without a proper response to a CCA request. If the answer to that question is yes you must by law take action against the creditor/DCA! The statute law in this regard is clear and unambiguous as is the definition of a valid response to a CCA request. Please put the reasoning of why you are frustrating the will of parliament in writing to me so I can forward it to my MP.”

 

Newborn

[Monty2007]

Dear Newborn

 

You are correct, this is what they obviously should ask and consider but don't. Both TS officials I met had no in-depth understanding of the 1974 CCA and I was amazed that, through CAG, I actually had more information than they had. Their position was to leave the interpretation and enforcement of the Act to the courts. The only action that my local TS would take was if the T&C's had changed from when I took out the card to what was supplied subsequently (i.e. fraud).

 

I really doubt if anyone can come up with a prosecution under the Act for this breach, it is simply not enforced and that is why it has been removed.

[tosh1]

i have made a request for a cca to barclaycard over a month ago and had no response regarding the cca. today i receive a letter from mercers that immediate action is required.

 

i know the 12+2 days were up ages ago but the debt still be enforced? can i send them a letter?

[Monty2007]

Dear tosh1

 

I would wait until they either (i) supply the CCA or (ii) issue court proceedings when they will have to comply anyway.

 

There is a lot of information on BC on CAG so worth reading around.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

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