Disabled & Scared! Owe 20k to Halifax!**WON** DISCONTINUED AND WROTE OFF

[ftolad]

Subscribing. Congrats HP, BOS have really put you through the mill. Hope that BOS now start to take notice and act in the way they should have initially. Have a good weekend.

 

Rich.

[HalifaxPickle!]

Morning!

 

Well today I have received another 2 letters from Halifax.

 

(1)A letter from a Customer Care Manager addressing my complaint. Basically stating that I havent paid etc and although I am ill, they are still within their right s to collect the debt. He stated the amount they are allowed by law to contact me by phone etc. It was a very nice letter and he also stated that he has contacted Blair, Oliver & Scott to hold off contacting me till the 19th July as this letter was date the 19th June 2008. He also stated that I had requested copies of my CCA and these were sent out on the 17th June 2008....that was in the 2nd letter! He also stated that if he doesnt hear from me within 8 weeks that he will assume that the matter is now closed. Gave me more info on their complaints procedure. It was a nice letter.

 

(2)I have finally received my CCA which looks accurate and has about 7 pages with it. I have just looked and the extra pages are in my new address (which they have spelt wrong) when I took the card out it was at a different address:?

 

What do I do now? They have provided the CCA although a few days late, but TBH I just dont have the energy to keep fighting them. I know I owe the money and they have proved I owe the money, so what should I do?

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks and sorry to keep harrassing you all.

 

HP

[citizenB]

Good morning HP,

 

Is there anyway you can scan that document and get it uploaded to here so that people can give an opinion on it. Just because they say it is an agreement doesnt make it so. Also the Terms and conditions they have sent with it. Is there a date anywhere on them.

 

There also seems to be a discrepancy with the address so that might be a help.

 

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of CCAs will be along shortly to help.

[HalifaxPickle!]

I have a scanner but have no idea how to put on my laptop???...will ask my OH. There are no dates on the extra pages. Does this make a difference?

 

HP

[citizenB]

I have a scanner but have no idea how to put on my laptop???...will ask my OH. There are no dates on the extra pages. Does this make a difference?

 

HP

 

They are obliged to send you the terms and coniditions that were applicable at the time you took out the loan/credit card. I have to be honest and say I dont know how sending current terms and conditions affects the situation. Somewhere on those extra sheets there should be a section that advises how much they will charge you in fees/late payment fees etc. That should give an indication of the date of the T&Cs. If you can let us know what they are then we will be able to narrow it down a bit.

 

Hopefully OH will be able to sort out the scanner for you and we can take it from there.

 

BTW, just scan in the agreement/application form. No need at this stage to scan in the extra pages.

[HalifaxPickle!]

OH just trying to sort the scan of the actual CCA.

 

No dates but the fees are:

 

£12 for each missed payment, over credit limit and each time a cheque/dd bounces.

 

Imsure it was more than that when the card was taken out in 2001.

 

HP

[citizenB]

OH just trying to sort the scan of the actual CCA.

 

No dates but the fees are:

 

£12 for each missed payment, over credit limit and each time a cheque/dd bounces.

 

Imsure it was more than that when the card was taken out in 2001.

 

HP

 

Yep, these are current T&Cs. I cant remember exactly when the above charges started to apply but I think it was somewhere around 2006. Therefore they certainly havent complied with your request as far as that is concerned.

[Chalkitup]

Morning!

 

Well today I have received another 2 letters from Halifax.

 

(1)A letter from a Customer Care Manager addressing my complaint. Basically stating that I havent paid etc and although I am ill, they are still within their right s to collect the debt. He stated the amount they are allowed by law to contact me by phone etc. It was a very nice letter and he also stated that he has contacted Blair, Oliver & Scott to hold off contacting me till the 19th July as this letter was date the 19th June 2008. He also stated that I had requested copies of my CCA and these were sent out on the 17th June 2008....that was in the 2nd letter! He also stated that if he doesnt hear from me within 8 weeks that he will assume that the matter is now closed. Gave me more info on their complaints procedure. It was a nice letter.

HP

 

 

Hello HalifaxPickle,

 

I have been following your thread and await with interest to see a scan of the application / agreement you have been sent.

Also what exactly did the "Customer Care Manager" state regarding the amount by law they are allowed to contact you?

 

I and others will give you all the help we can.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[HalifaxPickle!]

I am having problems getting it scanned onto here:confused:

 

The manager stated that they are allowed by law in conjunction with the Office of fair trading to make 1 verbal contact a day (in which they talk to you), up to 9 contacts with a thrid party and unlimited attempts if there is no response. If a customer denies security or hangs up, this isnt counted as a verbal contact. At the weekend they are allowed to call between 8am-4pm on a Saturday and Sunsay 9am-4pm. He says that BOS will continue to contact me which may include a doorstep call until I have agreed a way forward.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

I will continue to try and upload the CCA.

 

HP

[car2403]

I am having problems getting it scanned onto here:confused:

 

The manager stated that they are allowed by law in conjunction with the Office of fair trading to make 1 verbal contact a day (in which they talk to you), up to 9 contacts with a thrid party and unlimited attempts if there is no response. If a customer denies security or hangs up, this isnt counted as a verbal contact. At the weekend they are allowed to call between 8am-4pm on a Saturday and Sunsay 9am-4pm. He says that BOS will continue to contact me which may include a doorstep call until I have agreed a way forward.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

I will continue to try and upload the CCA.

 

HP

 

I seriously doubt it.

 

Anyway, what the OFT say has no bearing on anything, as they have guidelines and the bank know that.

 

If you were to sue for harassment, they would have to convince the Judge that they didn't harass you - the burden of proof is on them, to show they have been reasonable in the circumstances. Relying on procedures or practice is irrelevant in dealing with your complaint - what you are asking them to look at is how they have behaved in this situation, considering the impact on you. You aren't interested in how they should behave in general.

 

Also, if the CCA is unenforceable, you can revoke consent to share or process your data and prevent them contacting you anyway - so, the key to your issue now is to get that agreement posted up so we can rip it to bits.

[Chalkitup]

Hello,

 

Fully agree with car2403,

 

Basically, reading between the lines, all this Customer Care Manager has sent you is a threatogram but in a different format.

 

And just to pop his balloon ......... The OFT Debt Collection Guidance July 2003 (updated Dec 2006) actually states for a start....

 

2.12(B) Unfair practice would include ... visiting a debtor when it is known they are vulnerable, for example, when a doctor's certificate has been provided stating debtor is ill.

No offence to you HalifaxPickle but I feel that would include you.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[HalifaxPickle!]

Here it is! I received this, then there are about 5 pages of T&C's but are current. They have my new address on them (spelt wrongly though) so not original T&C's.

 

Edited June 21, 2008 by HalifaxPickle!

[HalifaxPickle!]

Hope that is ok as I dont know how to change it etc.

 

Anyway, I have noticed that they have put Miss as my title(I am a Mrs) but have put married in the box????

 

I have deleted all personal info-or do you need that?

 

Does it look ok?

 

HP

[car2403]

We don't need your personal details, but you may want to remove that image, delete your account number off the bottom, then repost it.

 

The good news is this is totally unenforceable. There are no prescribed terms, from what I can see, so the debt can't be enforced in Court either.

 

Is this all they sent?

[car2403]

Send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form and your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[rippedoffagain]

Snap. My application form was just the same, and they were kind enough to send me two different sets of current terms and conditions, one set headed Halifax PLC & one headed HBOS, both purporting to be an agreement entered into by me.

 

They did issue a claim against me, for over £17,000. The end result was:-

 

 

 

 

No one can guarantee the outcome, but I am happy I fought them.

[HalifaxPickle!]

What does this mean then? Not very good at legal letters!

 

Who do I send this too now? The care manager or BOS or both?

 

Thanks

 

HP

[car2403]

What does this mean then? Not very good at legal letters!

 

Who do I send this too now? The care manager or BOS or both?

 

Thanks

 

HP

 

It means you don't have to pay it.

 

Send it to the guy who replied to your letter - customer care manager?

 

If they come to repossess your car, call the police, as they don't have a legal right to do so. If they do, it's theft of your property.

[HalifaxPickle!]

Why would they repossess my car?

[car2403]

Why would they repossess my car?

 

You mentioned a seizure notice.

[citizenB]

Well done HP. Well now, from what Car2403 has said they dont have a leg to stand on. Therefore they certainly DONT have any mandate from you to phone or harrass you in any other format.

 

The letter he has provided for you and the little gem from the OFT guidelines that chalkitup has provided should put the 'Customer Care Manager' back in his box

[HalifaxPickle!]

You mentioned a seizure notice.

 

Hi Car2403

 

I dont think I have mentioned a seizure notice. I need my car to get me to the hospital so hope they dont take it.

 

HP

[car2403]

Hi Car2403

 

I dont think I have mentioned a seizure notice. I need my car to get me to the hospital so hope they dont take it.

 

HP

 

Oh, right, sorry - I'm subscribed to far too many threads and they all seem to merge in to one at points. It's not easy keeping up with so many different cases at once.

[HalifaxPickle!]

Mr HP here. Mrs HP in hospital till later today or tomorrow.

 

I have tried to print the above letter but it is copying and pasting with a blue background. How do I get rid of this please?

[citizenB]

Mr HP here. Mrs HP in hospital till later today or tomorrow.

 

I have tried to print the above letter but it is copying and pasting with a blue background. How do I get rid of this please?

 

Good morning Mr HP. You have to hightlight within the blue box. You might find it easier to copy and paste a bit at a time. Do you know how to access Mrs HP's private message box ?. I will copy and paste it into there for you and you will find it easier to do.