Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd v Ross-co

[citizenB]

Oh Rossco, I am so sorry to hear this. I cant believe these judges are allowed to discount law and offer verdicts based on their own prejudices.

[foolishgirl]

Yeah looks like I pick em.

 

The judge in question informed me that he holds certain religious beliefs and doesn't hold with credit.

 

Well, there's your grounds for appeal

[Spamalot]

Well, there's your grounds for appeal

 

Seconded..Go for it Ross-co

[applecart]

Hi Ross & Co

 

I have taken the last few hours reading through all your posts, I have never had so many emotional ups and downs in such a short space of time..... my goodness; you have certainly been to hell and back!

 

I'm loving your drive and determination - how dare they, how very very dare they????

 

On the Charging order issue - (this is possibly the means by which you can again have your day in court) I assume they have a CCJ.......? upon which you must have defaulted?

 

If they have a CCJ against you - I would look into seeing if you can get it set aside and set the ball rolling again.

 

Except this time - in your defence try not to 'tell' the DJ what he can and cannot do - trust me, it's not what you say; but the way you say it, that can make the difference : )

 

Chin up, and get your fighting arm out and take this matter to where it should be - 'struck out'!!!

 

 

1. The hearing related to a written agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Practice Direction 16, 7.3(1) requires that a complete copy of the agreement should be attached to the claim form and produced at the hearing. Neither of these mandatory requirements was complied with and fatally undermines the claim form. This is an appeal under CPR 52.11(3)(b). 'at the hearing on the xxxxx it was accepted that Under PD 16, 7.3(1) of the CCA1974, a complete copy of the Agreement was not submitted only a part copy was submitted'.

 

2. The Judge ordered the enforcement of a regulated consumer credit agreement, subject to the transitional provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 so still subject to section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which did not contain the the terms prescribed under Section 61(1) of the 1974 Act. In these circumstances the Judge was barred from ordering the enforcement of the agreement. This is an appeal under CPR 52.11(3)(a).'at the hearing on the xxx it was accepted that the part copy of the agreement submitted did not contain the prescribed terms as required by section 61(1) of the CCA 1974'

3. The Judge ordered the enforcement of a regulated consumer credit agreement where the Respondent had not complied with a request for information under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act in that the Respondent did not produce the terms and conditions of the agreement as prescribed by section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This is a breach of section 77(4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This is an appeal under CPR 52.11(3)(a).'at the hearing on the xxxx the respondent failed to produce exact terms and conditions of the Agreement and I would humbly ask that your honourable DJ request a complete copy from the Respondant'

 

4. The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner). This is an appeal under CPR 52.11(3)(a).

'I would ask the DJ for his guidance in this matter regarding the parties and the relevance to section 61 (1) & 65 (1) of the CCA 1974 as amended by CCA 2006 and the fairness of the contract due to it only being in part form.'

 

5. The Judge contrary to Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights denied the Appellant the opportunity to present his defence as detailed in his court bundle. This is an appeal under CPR 52.11(3)(b).(I would not have included this at all - only confuses the issue at this stage)

All I'm trying to do, by adding in the 'blue' bits is give an idea of how it is you can get the DJ to make the decisons for himself and in so doing, come to the conclusion you want..... if that make sense?

I know you will live to fight another day... All is not yet lost : )

[underdog13]

Well, there's your grounds for appeal

 

And grounds for a complaint about the judges behaviour!

[popeye1]

Shocking, so unfair. What about a letter to a MP,saying so.When a judge does not keep to the law ,why does he keep his position

[steven4064]

Just one thing that might be worth fighting is the fact that one of the prescribed terms is that the interest rate must be stated on the agreement, that's not the APR but the actual interest rate.

 

This is the agreement and I can't see an interest rate on it.

 

http://www.roscoe1.karoo.net/sainscca1.JPG

The rate of interest is a prescribed term for a fixed-sum agreement to be properly executed (schedule 1) but not for it to be enorceable (schedule 6)

 

I'm really sorry about this result but it does sound as though you have grounds for a complaint /appeal.

I'll see if I can get Pt to look in

[fedupwithdebt2009]

Ross co I am really sorry to read you lost this appeal. This backs up my thoughts on us CAGers posting annonymous stuff about DJudges and how they carry on. We should be able to if they are going to carry on like this!!! It's unreal....this sort of decision is going to give Phoenix/Marlin all the more reason to carry on what they are doing.....issuing claims willynilly...flouting the law and getting away with it and the judges are on THEIR side!!! UNBELIEVABLE

 

Are the courts in a pact with phoenix???? Or is there association there somewhere???? Makes you wonder dunnit..........

[Spamalot]

Yeah looks like I pick em.

 

The judge in question informed me that he holds certain religious beliefs and doesn't hold with credit.

 

 

Did you ask him if he's ever had a mortgage?

[B3rty]

Have you thought about getting your MP involved even at this late stage?

[questioning]

Ross co I am really sorry to read you lost this appeal. This backs up my thoughts on us CAGers posting annonymous stuff about DJudges and how they carry on.

 

Not much point in doing this, Best bet is to complain about the judge and complain to MP and any other influential person who will listen.

 

Rossco, very bad luck, I feel bad for you.

[Ross-co]

Tomorrow I'll be contacting my MP and looking into how I complain about the Judge.

 

I'm also going to look into a second appeal.

[underdog13]

Hope this helps:-)

 

Complaints about judges, members of small tribunals or coroners

 

If you want to complain about the personal conduct of a judge, member of a small tribunal or coroner you should write to the Office for Judicial Complaints by post or email. If for any reason you are unable to make your complaint in writing, please telephone us and we will be pleased to help you.

You can download a printable version of our complaints form and send it to us:

Complaints form (MS Word 0.08mb, 2 pages)

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Alternatively, write to us by post or by email making sure you include the following information:

• your name, address and telephone number
  
• the name of the judge / tribunal member / coroner, the court / tribunal hearing centre, the number of the case, the date of the hearing
  
• specific details about the grounds of your complaint
  

Send your complaint to:

The Office for Judicial Complaints

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Tel: 020 7189 2937

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Email

Your complaint should be made as soon as possible and in any event, no later than 12 months after the incident that you wish to complain about.

If your case or your appeal is ongoing, we will not be able to consider your complaint until the case is closed; but you should still let us know about your complaintas soon as possible

[Ross-co]

Thanks so much to all of you who have given your support, it means so much to me.

 

I will take these ba****ds down.

[popeye1]

The very best,,,Lloyds suck

[questioning]

Thanks so much to all of you who have given your support, it means so much to me.

 

I will take these ba****ds down.

 

Well done mate, you go for it.

As underdog has said, its pretty easy to complain about the judge, All the info is on the web, the more people that complain about these ba....ds the better. Sadly i think alot of us just don't bother. these judges need complaining about. i admire you for bothering to do so.

I'm beginning to think its easier to represent yourself in a magistrates court than these county courts.

[Ross-co]

If PT is around I could do with talking to him and Dad as a matter of some urgency.

[robcag]

Hi Ross-co

 

Sorry to hear about your latest misfortune.

 

Thanks so much to all of you who have given your support, it means so much to me.

 

I will take these ba****ds down.

 

Not too sure about this, but do any of the experts think this is a case for a Judicial Review seeing as the Judge was completely out of order?

 

I hope you manage to take the Judge down too Ross-co!

 

Good luck with this

Rob

[underdog13]

Well done mate, you go for it.

As underdog has said, its pretty easy to complain about the judge, All the info is on the web, the more people that complain about these ba....ds the better. Sadly i think alot of us just don't bother. these judges need complaining about. i admire you for bothering to do so.

I'm beginning to think its easier to represent yourself in a magistrates court than these county courts.

 

Wholeheartedly agree - it is imperitive that people who hold high positions should be held to account.

[underdog13]

 

Not too sure about this, but do any of the experts think this is a case for a Judicial Review seeing as the Judge was completely out of order?

Great idea!

I hope you manage to take the Judge down too Ross-co!

 

Good luck with this

Rob

 

I hope so too:)

[cups]

Hi

 

I think to complain about the Judge is without doubt the best way to go as a first point. If he does hold these 'ideals' then all well and good but he has made a mistake to say it on tape during the hearing. The tape will get sent to their complaints dept.

 

I have already said today that you could not get away with the tricks of these companies in a criminal court,,the lack of continuity and evidence is appalling.

 

Good Luck

 

Cups

[tiokim]

subscribing

[Ross-co]

Ok guys

 

Have finally managed to get my head around this and the fact that the stress of all this has seen me seperating from my long term partner.

 

There's a hearing for a charging order on the 27th. In the meantime I'm going to submit an N161 to the Court of Appeal. The question is do I appeal the appeal decision on the grounds that the judge made a statement about his religious beliefs etc or do I appeal the original decision made by the DJ not to examine my defence at all?

 

Some speed on this would be appreciated as would some input from Dad and PT

 

Thanks again/

[dad]

Ross-co,

 

Sorry to hear about your partner. Just check the route of appeal. It may be to a single judge of the High Court rather than direct to the CoA. The HMCourt Service website has a guide to routes of appeal. (I think there is something in Practice Direction 52 as well).

 

You will have to have a reason for appealling out of time. But being a LiP and suffering a family breakdown might work - Provided that you get on now.

 

As to your main question about what to appeal, You are appealling the second judgment, some of your original points of appeal also apply to the second appeal - eg if the agreement is unenforceable it applies to the appeal judge equally as well.

 

Dad

[Ross-co]

Hi Dad

 

Ok, I'm clear on the issue of the statement that the judge made about his religious beliefs.

 

The issue I'm having difficulty with is the fact that the DJ at first instance would not look at my defence even though it contained questions about deeds of assignment, default notices etc all of which should have been addressed, ie no deed of assignment and no default notice.

 

At appeal the judge wouldn't look any further than saying the DJ was entitled to dismiss my defence without even looking at it. The appeal judge would not listen to any argument on my part which began to delve into the original defence. He said quite rightly that I couldn't bring in new evidence but would not accept that this was not new evidence as it had been presented to the DJ and the DJ had ruled on it. Neither would he examine it in order to ascertain if the DJ was correct.

 

It's a bit like Schroedingers cat. The cat is in the box and we dont know if it's alive or dead until we open the box but we aren't being allowed to open the box.

 

How can I get the next judge to look into my original defence and examine if the DJ was right when he said "There's nothing in your defence which would make me change my mind".