HUMBLEMAN vs HFC-WEIGHTMANS COURT ACTION

[brooooooooooce]

Do we write en mass to our MP's?

[RoadToRecovery]

These type of rulings are potentially going to affect tens / hundreds of thousands of people.

 

I wonder how many people with credit cards know they are not protected by any laws and their property is ultimately used as security for their credit card balance?

[Faded-rose]

I can donate too - won't be £100 but as much as I can. Disgraceful!

[Signature]

Count me in!

[humbleman]

I am just exploring what is involved financially to take this to appeal and one indication I have received is as follows:

 

Should you wish hi to proceed on your behalf you would be looking at a fee of £2500 for the appeal and £200ph for any advisory work or conferences that you would have. As to his preparation for such I would have to see the full papers to determine how long it would take him.

[vjohn82]

Upfront?

[Delfi101]

I take it that's potentially recoverable in the form of costs?

[banker_rhymes_with]

I take it that's potentially recoverable in the form of costs?

 

Yes.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[humbleman]

Upfront?

 

I think the way it would work is some monies on account and then pay you you go.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Humbleman!

 

I am just exploring what is involved financially to take this to appeal and one indication I have received is as follows:

 

Should you wish hi to proceed on your behalf you would be looking at a fee of £2500 for the appeal and £200ph for any advisory work or conferences that you would have. As to his preparation for such I would have to see the full papers to determine how long it would take him.

 

Your main up front costs are the Transcripts and then the Appeal Fee, plus the usual admin/printing costs to pull the Appeal Bundle together.

 

It's the 21 day deadline that you must not miss, otherwise you are then into the Appeal Out of Time zone, and it gets harder.

 

A Barrister is an excellent idea, but you can get the Appeal going ahead of that. The main issue then is to make sure your Grounds for Appeal are well considered.

 

A good Barrister can amend your Grounds for Appeal down the line, provided the basic Grounds are sufficient to let the Appeal get up and running.

 

The timescales will stretch I suspect once the main Bundle is submitted. If you do that on time, then you have +14 days to get the Skeleton Argument in. So, you have 21+14 for the Skeleton provided you hit the 21 day target for the initial bundle.

 

Look around for a Direct Access Barrister, i.e. one where you do not need a Solicitor on top to add to the costs. Find one who is a Consumer Credit specialist, not any old Barrister.

 

You may find one willing to take this on as a No-Win/No-Fee basis. Hard, but not impossible if you find one who thinks this is a fight worth winning to set an anti-bank Precedent.

 

The Bar pro bono unit might also be worth approaching, if you do it soon. They take a while to do anything, so get in touch sooner rather than later to see if they can help.

 

The Bar Pro Bono Unit: Free Legal Advice and Representation

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[humbleman]

The only downside is if this goes to appeal and HFC/Phoenix wins then I am in for maybe about £5/6k of their costs as well, although this is highly unlikely.

[Ruprecht]

I think the way it would work is some monies on account and then pay you you go.

 

Let us know when you need the funds to get the ball rolling! Maybe we could paypal it to you or something.

 

I am not sure what the site rules are on this, maybe a mod can comment? Hopefully they will be 100% behind this.

 

We can seek support in the media too, a "CONSUMERS FIGHT BACK TOGETHER" article!

 

 

There is the chance they will settle though if they think they will lose and don't want the publicity..... I'd rather see them lose in the courtroom!

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello H!

 

The only downside is if this goes to appeal and HFC/Phoenix wins then I am in for maybe about £5/6k of their costs as well, although this is highly unlikely.

Correct. Defeat at Appeal is always a possibility. One that cannot be ignored.

 

All you can do is take it slowly this week, and review the whole case from front to back. Examine every issue, and every point, and see if you can find sufficient points where you should have won.

 

If the list grows and grows, and the Law, Statute, case histories and your Defence support the view that you should have won on those points, then you have valid Grounds for Appeal.

 

Then the decision to proceed has to be your own, because you and your family will be the ones who have to pick up the pieces if it all comes to nothing.

 

Everyone rooting for you here mean well, but don't let that sway you. You must make the decision based on all the facts, and that includes the impact it could have on you and your family.

 

Talk it through with them, and talk it to death here, and via PM with any Caggers who you know and trust. Always stay on your guard for Trolls, not all Caggers are Caggers.

 

I would consider setting this coming weekend as the Go/No-Go decision. That should still leave you with sufficient time to go for it, if that is what you decide to do.

 

I know what I would do but, I am not you, and neither is anyone here trying to help. The decision is yours, has to be yours, and you must be sure you are willing to see it through if you proceed.

 

The Appeal has to be at least twice as well planned as the first Defence. The fact that you are having to Appeal suggests things were not as well planned as they could have been. No offence intended by that. I am sure anyone who has had to Appeal will admit that they could have, and would have done better, had they had the benefit of hind-sight.

 

This won't help you now, but I think that it would help many if people looked ahead at the Appeal process early on, and considered that as they plan a Defence to an initial Claim. I think it might help people to improve their chances first time out.

 

I suspect you may agree with this.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[brooooooooooce]

Several posters have commented that they thought the outcome of this case and others may well have been different if the claimant / defendant hadn't been a LIP. What I personally would like is some recommended Consumer Credit solicitors (who will work on a CFA) that could be instructed if my creditor issued against me. I don't want to be a LIP.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Been following your thread Humbleman and sorry to hear things didn't go your way. Involved in an appeal myself so understand the dillemma you have. I looked through your defence and would suggest you revisit the argument re the assignment. I think you stated that according to s136 LPA the notice of assignment must by made by the assignor. Have a read again as i believe that section relates to the assignment not NOA (s136 (1) any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor ......) IMHO, your NOA does look lawful.

 

I've also looked at your agreement/app form and suggest that you look again at s61(1)(a) CCA, in particular reference to "conforming to regulations under 60(1)" the regs being Consumer Credit (Agreements ) Regs 1983. Look at the section form and content as having looked at your agreement it looks to me as if it is unenforceable (subject to a court order). Can't see that you pleaded this and maybe another avenue to consider in your appeal.

 

I'm just going through an appeal in front of a circuit judge and that is Blxxdy daunting enough. I would suggest if you are to use a barrister, personally (if I could afford it) I'd suggest a conference, before SA is put in, so that you can be advised on the merits of your argument.

 

I couldn't afford a barrister, but I did do some fishing around, and your initial assumtions on cost may be a little low. However, getting a barrister to do specific work at an agreed cost at the various stages may be easier to budget for the appeal (break it down into segments).

 

Robin

[humbleman]

Been following your thread Humbleman and sorry to hear things didn't go your way. Involved in an appeal myself so understand the dillemma you have. I looked through your defence and would suggest you revisit the argument re the assignment. I think you stated that according to s136 LPA the notice of assignment must by made by the assignor. Have a read again as i believe that section relates to the assignment not NOA (s136 (1) any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor ......) IMHO, your NOA does look lawful.

 

I've also looked at your agreement/app form and suggest that you look again at s61(1)(a) CCA, in particular reference to "conforming to regulations under 60(1)" the regs being Consumer Credit (Agreements ) Regs 1983. Look at the section form and content as having looked at your agreement it looks to me as if it is unenforceable (subject to a court order). Can't see that you pleaded this and maybe another avenue to consider in your appeal.

 

I'm just going through an appeal in front of a circuit judge and that is Blxxdy daunting enough. I would suggest if you are to use a barrister, personally (if I could afford it) I'd suggest a conference, before SA is put in, so that you can be advised on the merits of your argument.

 

I couldn't afford a barrister, but I did do some fishing around, and your initial assumtions on cost may be a little low. However, getting a barrister to do specific work at an agreed cost at the various stages may be easier to budget for the appeal (break it down into segments).

 

Robin

 

Their counsel conceded that they do not have a effective assignment, therefore they would say it's equitable assignment and when I mentioned to the Judge that they could not bring the action on their own, her remarks were you didn't bring this up before.

 

if you carefully read my WS their own internal leagal dept. even warned them that the agreement is unenforceable.

[Ruprecht]

Their counsel conceded that they do not have a effective assignment, therefore they would say it's equitable assignment and when I mentioned to the Judge that they could not bring the action on their own, her remarks were you didn't bring this up before.

 

if you carefully read my WS their own internal leagal dept. even warned them that the agreement is unenforceable.

 

Just to let you know, my £100 donation is good even if it is just to fund conference with a barrister. I will add another £100 if it proceeds after that.

 

They are donations and there is no expectation of a return. That doesn't stop you donating back if you win in the end! LOL!

 

You need to make your own mind up though how you are going to proceed over the next few days and get your stuff together. I don't see how much damage can be done by having a conference with the B when you have your bundle ready.

[tamarindo]

Steven Turner,

 

Parklane Plowden Chambers

 

Counsel on Dimond and Lovell (court of appeal and also House of Lords) and also Imageview vs Jack ( court of Appeal)

 

He is very good

 

Hi my friend is looking for a barrister

 

Would you please advise us how to find his contact or pm me if you wish

 

mostly appreciated

 

thanks

[humbleman]

Hi my friend is looking for a barrister

 

Would you please advise us how to find his contact or pm me if you wish

 

mostly appreciated

 

thanks

 

He is not a Direct Access

[patrickq1]

I cannot say more than has all ready been said except for I know how you feel!

 

It will take a few weeks to get the phrase 'ON THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITY' out of your head. 2.5 months on and it still 'grips in' when I hear it! and especially hearing it used against someone else

 

It was a DJ in Walsall (nearly next door) that said it to me, so they prodably had a chat over the fence.

 

A few stiff drinks and beating up the cat helped me - I just said sorry but my bet is you may say sorry meduck

 

All the best

 

Kel

 

more like a chat in same bed

[Laura Cooke]

Please try the Pro-Bono they offered aid some time ago to my son though they are limited to how many cases they can take and would be a good idea to let the Mail know as they seem to be sympathetic to the publics plight this judge needs naming and shaming it`s not her place to make judgements on the defendant she should have stuck to the facts which she doesn`t seem to have had much interest in shame on her

[patrickq1]

yes i aggree name and shame plus she can kiss bye bye to having any further promotions as it stands it looks like she drove a coach and horses right through your case her decision was also a complete embarrasment to what we al excpect of justice as for you only receiving their bundle 20 min before te case you should have been asked if you would require an adjournment this alone is an abuse of the proccess.... pro bono..

aso ask PT if who he knows would go for this sort of deal ...

sorry mate but its things like this that makes us stronger i would be writing letters to all and sundry and what angers me so much is the fact that she made comments as if to say cant pay wont pay and you come under the wont pay bracket in her eyes...i do hope her comments are included in the transcripts though as i suspect they will be ommisions such as her comments ? but you gotta keep on going

patrickq1

[tamarindo]

Originally Posted by pt2537

Steven Turner,

 

Parklane Plowden Chambers

 

Counsel on Dimond and Lovell (court of appeal and also House of Lords) and also Imageview vs Jack ( court of Appeal)

 

He is very good

 

 

 

 

He is not a Direct Access

 

 

hi

thanks for your reply.

 

are any of those contactable???

[pedross]

Hi humbleman

 

I don't know if you have seen this or if it is even relevent but I found it interesting.

 

http://www.roscoe1.karoo.net/modified.doc

 

It refers to various issues which mirror your problems. Just trying to help.

 

Pedross

[diddydicky]

The number of times she mentioned 'On The Balance of Probability' I almost thought I was in a maths lecture learning statistics. I always thought justice was 'without a shadow of doubt'

 

that's criminal law .

 

on the balance of probabilities is the civil mantra