HUMBLEMAN vs HFC-WEIGHTMANS COURT ACTION

[humbleman]

Received a letter from Weightmans acting for HFC – we have issued proceeding and you will shortly receive a claim form.

You need to complete and return to us if you wish to make offer of payment, should you fail to make a suitable offer of payment we will enter Judgment and proceed to enforce against you. Attachment of Earning , Bailiff, charge over property , issue statutory demand followed by bankruptcy.

Background

6th February 2007 CCA request

19th February reply from HFC enclosed copy of the legal agreement for this account, we note the copy is not clear, however it was necessary to obtain a copy of your legal agreement from our Archives Dept. We return your £1 as there is no charge for this service.

 

 

1st May 2007 I Sent a letter they are in default

 

 

7th June Reply from HFC - Further to your letter of 21st May, although the copy is poor quality, however this is a copy of the original credit card application. As the account was opened in 1998 there has been various changes to the T & C's and therefore I enclose the current version of T & C's

 

 

13th June 2007 sent further letter telling them still in default since an illegible application.

 

 

5th September Reply from HFC-Having considered all the info. Blah blah..Although the copy is of poor quality your personal details along with your signature is decipherable. The signature box states this is a credit agreement regulated by CCA 1974.......... Please be advised that under CCA s78 we are obliged to issue a copy of original credit agreement and the latest T & C's.

 

25th September 2007 HFC sends out the default notice

 

 

3rd October Sent letter to HFC told the aacount is in dispute and they are in default, they are not supposed to take enforcement action until it is resolved.

 

 

3rd December 2007 received letter fron Weightmans-We have been instructed by HFC lets reach suitable agreement or else we issue proceedings

 

 

10th December 2007 wrote to weightmans telling them HFC not complied and sent my last letter to HFC

 

 

9th January 2008 received letter from Weightmans contact Hfc for further info,

 

 

18 January 2008 Letter to Weightmans repeated my previous letter and told them to refund all interest paid and penalty charges

 

 

21st January 2008-received letter from Weightmans to say agree to a charge over your property.

 

Link to agreement and default notice

123GGGG_2008 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

 

Need advice for when the Claim form arrives

[humbleman]

the agreement in as is, not been compromised by scanning in any way.

[Bug]

Hi humbleman, I'm sure someone will be along shortly ... your (so-called) agreement looks to me to be more like an application form and I'm sure that it should be legible...

[humbleman]

what I have also noticed is that the default doesn't mention what conditions I have breached and it refers to the date of agreement as being 30 July when they have dated the agreement 29th July (you can't see this on the application since I have accidently blanked this)

[Curlyben]

Well as you say this is a poor copy so you'll have to do some work yourself.

It MUST contain ALL the prescribed terms to be compliant.

 

 

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

 

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

 

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

 

 

Also check out Peter Bard's excellent thread on the subject: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/103383-agreement-enforceability.html

 

Now if you can work out whether they are there, let us know and then we'll advise accordingly.

[humbleman]

No prescribed terms.

Except for a box that asks what is my preferred credit limit

[robcag]

What was the date of issue of the default notice?

 

Rob

[humbleman]

What was the date of issue of the default notice?

 

Rob

 

25th September 2007 (I have amended the my first post to reflect this)

[PriorityOne]

IMO... this is an Application form !! What the hecky pecky are Weightman's hoping to do with that then ?

 

 

Hoping you won't defend it, presumably...

[humbleman]

IMO... this is an Application form !! What the hecky pecky are Weightman's hoping to do with that then ?

 

...

 

They probably not even been told about this by HFC, although I have pointed this out to them.

[humbleman]

Got me worried for a moment, couldn't see this thread after the crash until now.

[humbleman]

Still awaiting the claim form

[humbleman]

Particulars of claim

 

Breach of contract pursuant to the CCA 1974

 

(1). The Defendant entered into a written agreement with the Claimant. This agreement is regulated by the CCA 1974.

 

2) The D is Indebted to the C in the sum of xx,xxx and in respect of the said agreement under account no. xxxxxxxx and maintained by the D at the C branch and the sum of 2700 in respect of costs under the said agreement.

 

3) In breach of the said agreement the D failed to make payment in accordance with the agreed payment terms and the C issued and served a default notice upon the D and pursuant to section 87 (i) of the CCA 1974.

 

4) By letter from C to D the C demanded repayment of the said sum but the D has failed to repay the said sum.

 

5) In the premises, the D is indebted to th C in the sum of xx,xxx (this includes costs of 2700).

 

6) The C therefore claims the balance under the agreement.

 

 

Would appreciate some input as to the next step.

[PriorityOne]

Morning Humbleman....

 

Paul (pt2537) or Tomterm8 are the ones I normally direct people towards for defences....

 

[pt2537]

Ah nice to see they still havent found anyone who can write decent POC's

 

Right standard stuff

 

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

pop that in the post to them first thing on monday morning via special delivery .

 

amend it to suit obviously

 

and lets wait and see what they come up with

 

that agreement as it stands is as enforceable as an IOU,written on a post it note, found by a vagrant living in a cardbord box;)

[humbleman]

Thanks Paul.

 

Do I need to send this to Weightmans direct.

[pt2537]

Yeah weightmans is who i would be sending it to

[pt2537]

Right,

 

im going to move this thread to the Legal issues forum.

 

that way it will be in the area where other cases versus weightmans are being dealt with and will allow others to see whats happening etc

 

regards

 

paul

[humbleman]

Just edited to suit

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation, on behalf of HFC. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

 

2. All records HFC hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by HFC.

 

 

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention.

 

c.True copies of any default notice or enforcement notice that HFC sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that HFC hold.

 

 

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

g. A list of third party agencies to whom HFC have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming,

(within 14 days) it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

[Hopeful1]

Hi Humbleman, poor Paul was duplicating posts yesterday - i've got the same battle as you. My thread has also been put in the Legal Issues Forum.

 

As yet i haven't had an agreement - i've been asking since May!! Hope we can support each other on this parallel journey

[humbleman]

Hope we can support each other on this parallel journey

 

of course

[cups]

Hi all

 

Just to let you knw that Weightmans have asked me for voluntary charge, told them to go away. I have now made a complaint to the Legal Complaints Service about Weightmans, their website quite clearly boasts of turning unsecured debt into secured debt! I would imagine that they often get away with it as people don't fight them off!

 

Onwards and upwards,,

 

Cups

[pt2537]

Any news yet Humbleman?

 

if it starts getting near to the time when your defence is due, i would say 7 days before, please shout to remind us. if you dont get a reply then PLEASE PM me and i will take a look. i have so much on at the mo that its difficult keepin track of all the threads im subbed to

[humbleman]

Hi Paul

No news from Weightmans after my request for further info. Will let you know the progress

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Humbleman,

 

Just offering you support, I am in the very same position as yourself, only a little further down the line,

 

I would feel confident that what they have supplied you is a pre-contractual application form:grin: If this is what they will rely on in court, they are snookered:grin:

 

Tis interesting that they have asked you to volunteer to accept the charging order. Have they asked you to admit liability of the debt yet and they will drop the collection charge, they tried that one on me as well. Stick to your guns and let the good people on this site, guide you:grin: