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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Moorcroft for Arrows - chasing OH's M+S card debt


marco23
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hi all

i am writting this on behalf of my wife,

 

she had a large debt with marks & spencer credit card just over £9000,

she defaulted on payments and the debt was sold on to Moorcroft who aranged a repayment plan with her of £5 per month,

 

all has been well for two years and now they want her to complete an expenditure form,

 

i emailed them back saying they have no legal right to demand this and will not submit the inforation requested.

 

the online payment facility keeps taking her to the expenditure form page and wont take the payment, their is no CCJ on the account,where does she go from here ?

 

thanks in advance

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Ignore moorcroft. Theyre total bottom feeders. Also, are you sure they bought it? They normally just chase on behalf of a creditor.

 

If they bought it, i would seriously question you blindly paying them without checking the validity of the debt.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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then dont pay online. Arrange a standing order for the fiver and do a CCA request tio see if they have the paperwork to enforce the debt. If thet dont you cancel the standing order. Refusal to accept the payment can invalidate the debt given enough time so take screen shots of the web pages to use against them and keep hard copies of all emails.

DONT use the phone.

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Moorcroft don't buy debts - who told you they'd purchased it???

 

 

look on their letters

who is stated as their client please...

when was the card taken out too?

 

 

please don't forget the golden rule

that applies to all her debts

a DCA IS NOT A BAILIFF

and has

NO LEGAL POWERS WHATSOEVER

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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many thanks for the replies guys,

they must be collecting it on behalf of M&S,

 

the account was opened around 2007,

trouble is the default is within 12 months of dropping of her credit file so she obviously doesn't want a CCJ at this stage,

 

probably better to send the letter asking to see the loan agreement ?

but i would have thought M&S credit card services would have this on file anyway or am i missing something here?

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the fact that the default is almost 6yrs doesn't mean anything.

 

 

a CCJ can still be attained after that and will still show.

who is their client please???

 

 

the original creditor would never do court

so stop being scared of that.

 

 

and if its it IS still owned by M+S

little point in a CCA request to them either

 

 

just ignore Moorcroft.

I would guess she stupidly started paying Moorcroft because at that time you'd not found CAG?

go pay M+S directly

 

 

cut out the DCA.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 years later...

hi all im having a bit of trouble if anyone can point me in the right direction

 

I have been paying Moorcroft Debt Recovery £5 per month for around 4 years on a 8k debt which was on a M&S credit card,

 

they are now insisting i complete a financial assessment form ,

i take it they are trying to up the payments,

 

i have never sent them a prove it letter and their is no CCJ on the account,

 

they say the agreement i have is informal and may not stop county court action,

 

what direction should i take,

,many thanks in advance

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  • dx100uk changed the title to moorcroft & M+S card debt

old and new threads merged 

 

now please re read and answer the outstanding questions?

like are moorcrofts client M+S?

why did you keep paying Moorcroft when you were advised before to doing stop that?

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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it was easier at the time to pay moorcroft as the payments were low and affordable,

the wife had had a nervous breakdown so i took over the repayment arrangements to take the pressure from her,

the debt was in effect sleeping while not making her ill,,

i hope you can understand

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thanks old Cogger,

i'm thinking now to stop the payment to moorcroft and put the debt into dispute by sending them a prove it letter

 

however i think the chances are slim that M&S don't have the documentation,,

somewhere in the cog of collection either M&S want the payments increased or Moorcroft do,

probably Moorcroft i suspect

but passing the buck to M&S by saying if i don't comply 'its an informal agreement that can be concluded with a CCJ'

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??

forget stupid prove it letters.

 

follow post 8

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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may i ask why not?

or is it they just sell on for someone else to do the dirty work

 

its debt to M&S credit card services, other than that only Moorcroft have been involved in the collection

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so still owned by the OC

they wont do court because of potential bad publicity.

so pay then directly via your banks interweb portal.

ignore and do not pay or anything at all Moorcroft.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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i wont be sending anymore payments to Moorcroft and shall contact the OC to pay direct.

 

i'm quite happy to make the monthly payments but was concerned as the debt is around 9K they may go for a CCJ then a charge on property, even those i could live with but 'i dont know' do they add interest on a property charge if so then that's when it gets scary, is it still not worth doing the CCA letter?

 

the account was opened around 2007

 

 

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as I've said there is little evidence of Original Creditors issuing any court proceedings.

there is NO evidence here that M+S do.

 

I didnt say contact the OC, just do it monthly by say BACS or automatically by setting up standing order via your banks interweb portal.

unless this was a store card upgraded to a credit card, there is little or no point in a CCA request to M+S the OC.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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18 hours ago, marco23 said:

 

 

they are now insisting i complete a financial assessment form ,

 

 

Only  a court, HMRC or Council Tax Collections have the right to insist on a financial assessment form.   

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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1 hour ago, London1971 said:

 

Only  a court, HMRC or Council Tax Collections have the right to insist on a financial assessment form.   

yeh their not getting that London, their not even getting a response, DX has given some valuable points and i thank you all

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ahhhh, i just checked the letter from Moorcroft and its headed Re: Arrow Global LTD (sorry i missed that) so at some point it must have left the hands of M&S, does this change things now??

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Send Arrow a CCA request

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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5 hours ago, Andyorch said:

Send Arrow a CCA request

 

thank you,, i have no reference numbers or account number to include on the letter so should i use the moorcroft client ref number and moorcroft reference (two dif numbers) and make PO payable to Arrow Global ltd

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19 hours ago, Andyorch said:

Yes

OK the CCA request has gone off in the post,

 

now if Arrow Global cant produce this then that chucks up an alternative route to the problem,

 

should they be able to enforce the debt 'with the CCA' then what route is best to keep it out of the County Court,

 

i can only see an increase in payments would do the trick,

 

my main objective is not to let it go to CC or worse even a charging order because this will make the wife ill again, 

 

so an increase in the monthly payment or an offer of full and final payment at say 50% of the debt

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