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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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South West Trains - only 1 replacement of annual ticket if lost - help!


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Good day all,

 

I'm in a bit of a panic here. I have a £4500 season ticket with SWT. I managed to lose it about 1 month into the ticket and was interviewed by revenue protection and subsequently given a replacement.

 

Last night as I got up to let a lady off I folded the tray back with my season ticket in there and forgot to take it down again before getting off leaving my ticket on the train. Realising my mistake I tried to call the guard and SWT 30 mins after. However there were no numbers I could get through to.

 

I spoke to the guard this morning and he advised that I wouldn't be given a duplicate and I would have to buy a new season ticket as I'd already had one replacement. My current season ticket had until June to run, so about £1500 worth of travel.

 

I've got a new daughter being born soon and I can't afford the travel to get to work.

 

Surely SWT can't refuse to let me travel? I've paid for the service not the ticket right? Is there anyone who can offer me any advice on how to go about coming to a resolution which doesn't end up putting me into debt or losing my job!

 

Any advice greatly appreciated!!!

 

thank you

T

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Hello and welcome to CAG. The forum guys should be along over the course of the day.

 

I've looked at SWT's website and couldn't see anything about replacement season tickets. They have a helpline, it would be worth calling that to ask your questions.

 

I would say you need to buy tickets for now, because the website does say that you should carry your season ticket and display it when asked. Without a ticket you're likely to have further problems, I'm afraid.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Well I would certainly have said that you have paid for the service rather than the ticket. It seems to me that refusing to replace the ticket amounts to a penalty which exceeds their administrative costs and therefore could be unenforceable.

 

Presumably they deal with this in their terms and conditions. Please could you point us towards their terms and conditions

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Thanks for the welcome HB13.

 

Yep I'm buying tickets at the moment, which is killing me at £54 a day. I'll get a weekly next week but funds are low.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice to get round this issue and get SWT to issue a 2nd duplicate. Do I make up a story and file a report? Would they take pity on me because it's the 2nd time in a year rather than a month? Literally any advice... I know I screwed up here by leaving it on the train in the first place.

 

thanks all

T

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Hi there, the wording on their season ticket leaflet terms and conditions is as follows :

 

"if you lose your Season Ticket or it is stolen, report this immediately to the ticket office where you bought it. You should also report this to the police. If you or we cannot recover the lost or stolen ticket, we will then consider an application for a duplicate ticket, it the original was issued for a period of one month of more.

 

We only allow one duplicate issue in an 12 month period. However we will only allow a second duplicate issue if :

 

(a) the original season ticket is returned to the train company which sold it to you within one month of you reporting the loss, or

(b) the first or second request for a duplicate was because of theft, robbery, fire or other exceptional circumstances, the facts of which have been reported to the police, the fire service or another appropriate body."

 

However the wording on their website is different :

 

"Lost or stolen Season tickets or Photocards

- If you lose your Season Ticket or it is stolen, report this immediately to the ticket office where you bought it. You should also report this to the police. If you or we cannot recover the lost or stolen ticket, we will then consider an application for a duplicate ticket, if the original was issued for a period of one month or more. We do not issue duplicates in respect of lost or stolen 7 Day Season Tickets. We may ask you or others for information. There is an administration charge when we issue a duplicate Season Ticket.

- A duplicate season ticket can be issued if:

you tell staff at an office of the Train Company from which it was bought as soon as you reasonably can and, if required, you give a reasonable explanation for the loss;

 

you agree to return immediately the lost Season Ticket if you find it, to an office of the Train Company from which it was bought; the lost Season Ticket is valid for one month or longer

- If you subsequently lose or mislay your duplicate Season Ticket or it is stolen, then further duplicate Season Tickets will be issued on the same basis as your first duplicate Season Ticket. However, you may be asked to attend a meeting with the Train Company concerned to explain the circumstances in which your duplicate Season Ticket(s) was lost. Train Companies have agreed a Code of Practice for such meetings, a copy of which can be found on the National Rail and Train Company websites.

- We will refund (with no administration charge) the cost of tickets you buy while you are waiting for the duplicate ticket to be issued, if you hand these tickets in.

- If you lose your photocard or it is stolen, we can issue a new one, for which a further passport-type photograph is required. If we need to reissue your Season Ticket, an administration charge will be made."

Edited by ImminentDad
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Presumably these season tickets have electronic strips so that journeys can be logged but also which would allow the company to disable the ticket?

 

Have you any idea about this?

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As far as i know, the electronic strips are the method of access through gates etc, but these cannot be cancelled remotely so the tickets that are issued remain active... so I can see their point that they could lose revenue through fraud...

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I can't imagine that they're not cancellable remotely.

 

I'm sure that they are able to keep tags in your journeys. It would have been naïve of them not to take advantage of this statistical marketing exercise.

 

Even if they weren't able to cancel them, they would certainly be able to know when each ticket is being used.

 

Have a search for this kind of information on the Internet. I'm sure that there are people who will know about these kinds of things.

 

I would suggest that you begin by sending them an SAR and let's see what kind of information they have about you. They may well have information about the journeys that you make. If that is the case then they would also have information about how the ticket has been use subsequent to the loss.

 

Can you tell me a bit about the procedure for purchasing the ticket please.

 

Did you buy it online? Is there a checkbox to say that you accepted terms and conditions? What were those terms and conditions?

 

Did you buy over the counter? Did you sign anything to say that you agreed certain terms and conditions? Were any terms and conditions brought your attention?

 

The order of these things can be extremely important – especially to know if terms and conditions were brought your attention and whether they were brought your attention before or after the sale.

 

For instance, it might be possible that you bought the ticket and you are then given a wallet with the ticket in, and the terms and conditions. In that case the terms and conditions would not be binding because they had not been brought to your attention before you entered into the contract.

 

We need to look at the whole situation in detail before deciding upon a strategy

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yes they can be cancelled for the automatic barriers but that doesnt stop them being used fraudulently.

I would report the ticket as being stolen from your seat on the xxth of whatever and then get a crime number and ask again for a replacement. Keep all your daily tickets so you can ask fro them to be reimbursed

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Ah yes, it hadn't clicked with me that you haven't made a formal request for a duplicate yet. You have only asked the guard and been given an informal refusal.

 

I agree with the above advice. Make a formal application for a duplicate and see what happens. You never know, maybe all of this discussion has been unnecessary.

 

Keep us informed

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Thing is if I make a formal application for a duplicate then I won't be able to report it as stolen later. I've been given very clear advice that I will be refused a duplicate...

 

I'm leaning towards making a police report to say it was stolen from my seat...

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Well you must play it as you see fit, but the advice on this forum would be to play it straight.

Also they will ask you why you didn't report it immediately instead of waiting and paying full price tickets in the intervening time.

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However the wording on their website is different :

 

"Lost or stolen Season tickets or Photocards

- If you lose your Season Ticket or it is stolen, report this immediately to the ticket office where you bought it. You should also report this to the police. If you or we cannot recover the lost or stolen ticket, we will then consider an application for a duplicate ticket, if the original was issued for a period of one month or more. We do not issue duplicates in respect of lost or stolen 7 Day Season Tickets. We may ask you or others for information. There is an administration charge when we issue a duplicate Season Ticket.

- A duplicate season ticket can be issued if:

you tell staff at an office of the Train Company from which it was bought as soon as you reasonably can and, if required, you give a reasonable explanation for the loss;

 

you agree to return immediately the lost Season Ticket if you find it, to an office of the Train Company from which it was bought; the lost Season Ticket is valid for one month or longer

- If you subsequently lose or mislay your duplicate Season Ticket or it is stolen, then further duplicate Season Tickets will be issued on the same basis as your first duplicate Season Ticket. However, you may be asked to attend a meeting with the Train Company concerned to explain the circumstances in which your duplicate Season Ticket(s) was lost. Train Companies have agreed a Code of Practice for such meetings, a copy of which can be found on the National Rail and Train Company websites.

- We will refund (with no administration charge) the cost of tickets you buy while you are waiting for the duplicate ticket to be issued, if you hand these tickets in.

- If you lose your photocard or it is stolen, we can issue a new one, for which a further passport-type photograph is required. If we need to reissue your Season Ticket, an administration charge will be made."

 

 

 

You should call the SWT Customer Relations office on 0345 600 0650 and explain how you believe that you came to lose the ticket just as you have done here. Explain what your actions were in the 30 minutes immediately after you alighted.

 

You may be asked to attend for interview as described above, but in exceptional circumstances and if they are satisfied that this is a genuine event, then I would expect SWT to apply the terms above and as advertised on their current website.

 

Do not be tempted to make an excuse, help SWT to help you by "hot-listing" the lost season so that if it comes to light being used by someone else then they can take robust action.

 

The sooner you make a truthful report the sooner you are likely to get this sorted.

 

Good luck

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