Hi,

My partner is an Ofsted registered Childminder.

She had 3 children with her while shopping in a B&M store recently.

She placed some items in the pushchair while walking around the store,

she then queued up for the tills to ask the cashier where something was in the store.

One of the children started playing up so she went to leave the store

and forgot about the items in the pushchair.

She was stopped by security and admitted straight away that she'd forgotten about the items

and would happily pay for them to be told "it doesn't work like that".

She was asked to go with the security guard to the security room,

she went with him and explained she was a Childminder and the 3 children with her were not hers.

She was kept in the security room for over 3 hours while the security guard phoned the Police 4 times who never turned up.

After over 3 hours of the Police not turning up the security guard said my partner could leave,

gave her 2 bits of paper and she thought this was the end of it.

When she got home she read the 2 bits of paper,

one of them is a Notice of Intended Civil Recovery.

There's a box where she should have signed it to say she understood the information

but the security guard has ticked a box that says Signature Refused.

She was never shown this and never asked to sign anything.

The other bit of paper is an Exclusion Order banning her from all B&M stores.

Again she was never shown this, there's a line asking for her acceptance signature

which she never signed and then it says "Witnessed by Police Officer" which is obviously blank.

Yesterday she received a letter from Civil Recovery Solutions asking for a settlement fee of £95.15

for compensation for losses to the company.

I've already phoned them and told them there wasn't any loss to the company as the goods were recovered

and were re saleable and my partner admitted it was an honest mistake

and offered to pay for the goods but that offer was refused.

I've spoken to the Police myself and they've confirmed although they were called by the store

that they never attended and no further action will be taken by them as no crime was committed.

They took a very dim view of the security guard detaining my partner for over 3 hours as a Childminder with children.

Now this is where it gets serious,

Ofsted have contacted my partner stating the Police have informed them

that they were called by the store regarding this incident and there is now a child protection issue.

They are investigating this incident and tomorrow will be deciding whether to withdraw my partners Ofsted registration

which will put her out of business immediately.

We have already lost 2 children due to Ofsted contacting the parents

and informing them that my partner was caught Shoplifting even though that isn't accurate.

We have also received a letter from Child protection services stating that even though they aren't taking any action,

they will be keeping this incident on file against our daughters name.

The Police say that this information never came from them but Child protection services say that it did.

I'm absolutely disgusted that anyone can be accused of this by store security

and have no opportunity to defend themselves.

My partners business insurance does provide legal protection

and as she was working at the time of the incident and now faces loss of business due to this,

they are providing legal assistance but I'm yet to hear back from them.

Any help regarding this matter will be greatly appreciated.

Can the store security detain someone for over 3 hours

when they've informed them they are a Childminder with other people's children ?

All I can advise is to IGNORE civil recovery solutions, DO NOT pay them a penny.

As for the police, UNLESS they have given your OH a formal caution, then there is nothing to answer, and I am at a loss as to how or even why Ofsted have been informed, it would NOT surprise me that this came from the security at the store involved.

If the Police are saying that it hasn't come from them, and lets face it, why would it? NFA from them means exactly that, NO FURTHER ACTION, then my bet would be with the security guards, the fact that they unlawfully detained her for three hours, an action which hasn't gone unnoticed by the Police, then it wouldn't be unheard of for them to breach the DPA and forward information in order to tarnish others reputation.

Who ever this security outfit is then they need to be made to answer for their employees at this store.

Hi, Thanks for the reply.

I've literally just got off the phone to the solicitor provided by our business insurance.

They have said the same as you regarding Civil Recovery Solutions,

don't pay them a penny and to email them stating we've consulted a solicitor

and would not be paying any fees.

Any further correspondence from them would be deemed as harassment.

They said if it was to go to court proceedings then they would provide assistance

but they couldn't see that it would as the store has suffered no losses or additional costs.

Can you confirm that the security guard detaining her for over 3 hours was unlawful ?

Hi

Your partner needs to find out where the information came from that got OFSTED involved. Contact them in writing and get something in writing to confirm where this info came from.

If the police did not pass this PERSONAL data on then it must have been the store security and if so, they could very well have breached the Data Protection Act.

At the same time, I would challenge OFSTED to show that shoplifting actually took place in that intention was occurring. Mistakes do happen and the security guards should have seen this however some staff at B&M do not have a clue (I am a regular customer). All OFSTED have is an allegation, not proof and as such this should be removed.

Use your legal cover as much as possible to get them to back down.

As for B&M, I suggest a formal complaint in writing demanding an apology for being unlawfully detained. Who cared for the children? Were they upset? 3 hours is way too long.

Send the letter of complaint to their head office and (to be sneaky) demand why they passed on her details to OFSTED

This statement

she went to leave the store and forgot about the items in the pushchair

something smells here rather nasty

that's really unfair that someone has involved OFSTED.

very out of order.

something smells here rather nasty

that's really unfair that someone has involved OFSTED.

 

 

very out of order.

I agree, it's extremely unfair. My partner is distraught about it as you can imagine. All the parents of the other children are supporting her apart from this one but that's their choice.

We have no choice but to wait for the outcome of Ofsteds meeting tomorrow and take it from there.

Hopefully this will all be seen as rather unnecessary and a baseless allegation, however my guess is that the information came from the police based on the details provided by security in the original allegation

I believe there is a statutory responsibility on the Chief Inspector to report even remotely possible issues of child protection to the relevant authority - and given genuine child protection failures by the police and other relevant authorities there is probably a tendency to always err on the side of caution and damn the consequences.

It is the same with the DBS checking - ever since Soham there simply isn't the scope for an awful lot of common sense and discretion, meaning that even minor misdemeanours - even maliciously alleged ones - can remain on police files for a lifetime, and can be declared if deemed relevant to the application when a check is made. When it comes to an individual requiring a DBS check when dealing with children or vulnerable people, the police often tend to declare everything and leave it to the prospective employer to make the final call on whether an individual presents a risk.

Sincerely hope this all gets sorted out quickly

Yes the Child protection is moot, as SW mentions there is a duty to inform. At least it seems Social Services are not involved as that is another sticky issue. The three hours detention may well be actionable against the store as there were children detained.

Definitely ignore the Civil Recovery muppets, CRS as even the Solicitor advises it.

What was the outcome of today's meeting?

Sorry didn't see this reply as not getting notifications for some reason !

Ofsted are sending somebody out on Tuesday next week, all they've said is they need to talk to my partner !

I've told her to phone them and ask for an explanation as they said they would be deciding yesterday

whether to remove her registration or not.

She doesn't want to risk annoying them so we now have to wait until next Tuesday.

One thing that bothers me:

We have already lost 2 children due to Ofsted contacting the parents

and informing them that my partner was caught Shoplifting even though that isn't accurate.

Ofsted should NOT be informing anyone from the general public of an unsubstantiated allegation. I would have thought this would be a serious breach of internal policy as well as falling foul of (at a minimum) the Data Protection Act.

Raise this issue on Tuesday, and use it to your partner's advantage as it really is a serious breach of confidentiality.

Would a SAR to OFSTEAD be useful here?

no,

they are allowed to refuse to send you anything if they consider it under legal consideration

or against the public interest to do so.

There are parts of Ofsted that are there to be very nasty and they get paid for having people's registrations cancelled.

These people will lie and try and ignore the law they are bound by to get the result they want.

The annoying thing is that the people who are employed in this role generally have no qualifications

in teaching, childcare, social work etc.

The solicitors under our business insurance said if Ofsted do remove my partners registration that she would have the right to appeal and they would assist us with that.

However, we won't have a business left by the time any appeals process is carried out !

have they suspended her ? If so that can only be for a fortnight and that can be repeated just once otherwise they are breaking the law. They will try thier luck at a tribunal and then tell lies rather than allow justice to run its course.

My wife had all of this years ago when she smakced a robber who was stealing her phone.

She hit him becasue he was biting her hand to make her release the phone.

he was caught but because he was a 16 year old druggy she was arrested and then released for assault.

that didnt stop Ofsted seeing the world differently though and we had visits form the police regarding children in the house when they wreent there, complaints of violent behaviour that again werent true, ghost visits and claims of refusal to co-operate with their enquiries.

the bad news for them was we had is all recorded on voice tapes and CCTV but they still wanted to go to court over it all

until i made a complaint to the police that would have embroiled 3 of their officers in their subterfuge

and would have landed them with a complaint of perverting the course of justice

so the tribunal chair adjourned the hearing and ordered Ofsted to lift their suspension.

My wife got so fed up she gave up childminding rather than have them being nasty

in short, they can afford to spend a billion of public money becuse they just can and no-one can stop them from doing so just to smother you.

No they haven't suspended her, they are visiting my partner tomorrow. We have no idea what the visit is for at this point.

My partner has informed all of the parents of the children we look after of the situation and they have all written lovely reports of the care my partner and I provide and that they fully support her and how lost they would be without her/our services.

What's really got to me is a local childminder to us has registered sex offenders in their immediate family. Someone reported that to Ofsted who investigated the situation. Their finding was that as long as those family members weren't at the house at the same time as the children then they weren't at any risk !!

 

What's really got to me is a local childminder to us has registered sex offenders in their immediate family. Someone reported that to Ofsted who investigated the situation. Their finding was that as long as those family members weren't at the house at the same time as the children then they weren't at any risk !!

Completely different scenario and no relevance to your situation. Focus on the facts surround whats happening to your partner.

Completely different scenario and no relevance to your situation. Focus on the facts surround whats happening to your partner.

It's relevant from the point of view that Ofsted believe the children in my partners care were put at risk and their welfare was not taking into consideration !

except it isnt as to ofsted it would look as if youre after an excuse. You dont know the details surrounding that scenario, so its better to stay away from it and focus on your own.

except it isnt as to ofsted it would look as if youre after an excuse. You dont know the details surrounding that scenario, so its better to stay away from it and focus on your own.

I do know the full details however I won't go into that now.

What I was getting at is that in my partner and myselfs view those children are potentially at risk yet Ofsted deem that to be not the case.

We are potentially facing the end of our business that my partner has worked hard to build up with my help aswell. The parents of the long term children we look after have become our friends and the parents say they view us as part of their family and would be lost without us.

All this from a genuine mistake with no criminal charges or Police involvement !

If it comes across that I'm a little upset, it's because I am and I feel that if Ofsted remove my partners registration tomorrow there's little we can do about it.

My partner has just finished a 3.5 hour visit from Ofsted. We now have to wait yet again for the inspector to pass her findings onto her manager to decide whether they remove registration.

There's lots of discrepancies between the Police and B&M,

for example the Police told me there was no further action being taken on their part

due to no crime being committed but they've told Ofsted the only reason they aren't taking any further action

is B&M have said they don't want them to take it further.

B&M told me they believed the Police were dealing with my partner

and weren't happy when I told them the Police said no further action !

Ofsted are going to request CCTV from B&M so they can view it and compare it against my partners version of events.

The whole situation is a mess !

If the police TRIED to take it further, the CPS would probably block it outright.

is she formally suspended? If not then she may carry on with her work and should they try and stop her without formal suspension leave themselves open to a claim for damages for loss of earings as well as the matter of telling tales to people who dont need to know and the DPA

No she's not been suspended at the moment. The Ofsted inspector explained that she will pass her findings onto her manager and they will inform my partner by the end of this week whether they will be removing her registration.

What I don't like is Ofsted saying the Police told them they would've arrested my partner had they attended the store at the time of the incident but they had no officers to attend. They've said they've only decided no further action as the store doesn't want to take it further.

As I've mentioned above, this is not what the Police have told me personally. The investigating officer told me on the phone that it was their decision to not take any further action !

I don't know if the Police aren't telling the truth or Ofsted or both ! Surely if the Police would've took action at the time, they would've sent officers to see my partner at home ?

So after waiting all week for Ofsteds decision, we've had an email basically saying they need to do more investigations before they can make a decision !!

Anyone know how long they can do this for as my partner is still working while all this is going on and we're just waiting and waiting to find out what they're going to do ?