Article 50 Discussion

[Consumer dude]

Now the UK has decided to leave the EU, what is the time scale to activate article 50 of the Lisbon treaty ?..

[havinastella]

There is no timescale to activate it. Should and if its activated you then have 2 years to complete it (Unless you get an agreement from the other 27 Countries to extend it)

[Consumer dude]

I think it should be activated sooner rather then later to avoid uncertainty..

[maroondevo52]

How come there was never a date set to activate it, maybe they never will

[unclebulgaria67]

Boris Johnson is apparently looking to get shot of Cameron quickly and to trigger article 50 before Brexit is stopped. Apparently consent of Scottish Parliament is needed before UK can exit the EU. This is required under the Scotland Act.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/world/can-brexit-be-overturned-what-brits-are-asking-each-other-20160625-gprz3u.html

[obiter dictum]

Leading 'out' campaigner Boris Johnson says the margin by which the UK voted to leave the European Union was "not entirely overwhelming"

 

This was on Sky. Me thinks Boris is looking for a way out and a second referendum

 

Cameron and Boris have been partners from the start in my opinion

[Consumer dude]

Why do we need the permission of Scotland, we voted as the UK and to which Scotland is part of. The result of the referendum is to leave the EU and the will of the majority must be respected..

[Consumer dude]

Leading 'out' campaigner Boris Johnson says the margin by which the UK voted to leave the European Union was "not entirely overwhelming"

 

This was on Sky. Me thinks Boris is looking for a way out and a second referendum

 

Cameron and Boris have been partners from the start in my opinion

 

Boris sounds like a hypocrite now..

[unclebulgaria67]

Why do we need the permission of Scotland, we voted as the UK and to which Scotland is part of. The result of the referendum is to leave the EU and the will of the majority must be respected..

 

Because of fhe complicated legal relationship between four separate countries in a union. The UK is not really one country, but a union of countries. For example Scotland has a different legal system to England and Wales. Northern Ireland also has different ways of doing things.

 

Under the Scotland act, before the UK parliament could change such a fundamental thing as Scotlands membership of the EU, the consent of the Scottish parliament would be needed. It is whether the Scottish parliament are willing to frustrate the whole of the UK and cause a major constituitional crisis between countries. If i were the SNP, i would use this as a way to negotiate a better deal for Scotland.

[unclebulgaria67]

Article 50 explained

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36634702/article-50-the-simplest-explanation-youll-find

 

Experts say it will probably take the UK 10 years to leave the EU !

[Old Cogger]

just Bye Bye that is it, get on with life. all this pussy footing we must do this that & the other, and the big money job for the Boys taking over to attend a stupid meeting which produces the same end product without a meeting which cost 100,000s or more! ahhhhhhh

[andydd]

I doubt will ever will now, as pointed out Cameron has handed the poison chalice of pushing the nuclear button of applying for section 50 to the next leader, Boris clearly had doubts about it and there are serious legal issues such as parliament has to agree to leave and as Heseltine pointed out, the majority do not want to, mp Lam has expressed concerns, Boris and gove have suggested "discussions", leaving also adds Scottish and Irish complications.

 

Even many leavers now agree that the while thing is an absolute mess, it is also beginning to tear apart both the Tory and labour parties.

[unclebulgaria67]

just Bye Bye that is it, get on with life. all this pussy footing we must do this that & the other, and the big money job for the Boys taking over to attend a stupid meeting which produces the same end product without a meeting which cost 100,000s or more! ahhhhhhh

 

Divorce is never easy and Brexit will be a complete nightmare costing a fortune. The cost to the UK will be tens of billions.

 

As long as people don't mind seeing a cut in pensions and withdrawal of others benefits they receive. That could well happen, if the economy does go into recession as predicted. The other silly thing is that more people from the EU will come to the UK before any exit date and that will mean more pressure on public services. 17 million people voted to be in a worse position, but if sovereignty is important to them, then they may see it as a price worth paying.

[Tawnyowl]

Anyone got any views on this article.

As the dust settles on the EU referendum battleground, some 33 million voters await with bated breath to see what the victors will do now that the nation has spoken to leave.

 

Political commentators forecast a dark future for the UK: Jeremy Corbyn has just sacked Hilary Benn to head off a coup, and Boris Johnson could be prime minister come November.

 

David Cameron’s decision to resign before enacting Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which sets out how a country could leave the EU, may have much bigger implications for Conservative hopefuls eyeing up the Prime Minister's seat than they bargained for.

 

While panic ensues, one person’s musings in the comments section of the Guardian has an interesting hypothesis on these complications:

 

The comment, which was picked up on Twitter, has been shared thousands of times.

 

If true, that is some parting gift.

 

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ

[postmn]

Because of fhe complicated legal relationship between four separate countries in a union. The UK is not really one country, but a union of countries. For example Scotland has a different legal system to England and Wales. Northern Ireland also has different ways of doing things.

 

Under the Scotland act, before the UK parliament could change such a fundamental thing as Scotlands membership of the EU, the consent of the Scottish parliament would be needed. It is whether the Scottish parliament are willing to frustrate the whole of the UK and cause a major constituitional crisis between countries. If i were the SNP, i would use this as a way to negotiate a better deal for Scotland.

 

its called , i want more power and unless you give it too me we wont help you , personally all the scots ive spoken to cant stand her

[unclebulgaria67]

its called , i want more power and unless you give it too me we wont help you , personally all the scots ive spoken to cant stand her

 

SNP hold a very powerful position in Scotland and will use any legal position to benefit the Scottish people. Given that the pound is heading for parity with the Euro, changing to Euro after independence might not be as unattractive. I don't think a new Tory MP would stop a new indy ref.

[postmn]

SNP hold a very powerful position in Scotland and will use any legal position to benefit the Scottish people. Given that the pound is heading for parity with the Euro, changing to Euro after independence might not be as unattractive. I don't think a new Tory MP would stop a new indy ref.

 

 

how ever the eu has already said scotland would be at the back of the que , also how are you going to survive without the blank check from the rest of the uk

[unclebulgaria67]

how ever the eu has already said scotland would be at the back of the que , also how are you going to survive without the blank check from the rest of the uk

 

I am not Scottish (or a Scottish resident) and don't think independence would be a good idea, unless they came up with an economic proposition that made sense.

 

However, Scotland is a net contributor to UK Treasury and even without oil/gas revenues could do well with the right economic plan as an independent country. Scotland is important to the UK strategically, paricularly Faslane nuclear submarine base. The only possible alternative other UK base is Portsmouth or Falmouth, both of which have issues which would be difficult to overcome. If you search online there are articles on this by experts and they make it sound like UK would not have a nuclear submarine base if Scotland became independent.

 

If Scotland has a legal right to stop Brexit, so they protect their interest, that is their entitlement. Some think that article 50 being started by a new PM, would stop Scotland preventing Brexit, but there are legal questions about this.

[Bailiff Advice]

Article 50 explained

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36634702/article-50-the-simplest-explanation-youll-find

 

Experts say it will probably take the UK 10 years to leave the EU !

 

And judging by this excellent article, there is no need to invoke Article 50. Very interesting indeed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-europe

[Consumer dude]

I think now, what is needed is stability and as much as I believe article 50 is activated at some stage, it is not something that has to happen for a few months..

[unclebulgaria67]

And judging by this excellent article, there is no need to invoke Article 50. Very interesting indeed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-europe

 

That is a good article.

 

I hope MP's block Brexit, but most MP's are saying that they are democrats so must accept how the UK has voted. Whether this is because of the current sensitive situation and they change their position later remains to be seen.

 

I am listening to a very good Australian talk radio show on ABC at the moment to gain an outside view. Very interesting and is covering things not being talked of here. For example, Ireland post Brexit will not be able to agree a direct trade deal with the UK, but would have to go through the EU. This means that if the trade deal is bad for Ireland, it could massively affect the Irish economy and there will be problems with the border with N.Ireland. For example, Irish Beef might be subject to tariffs on export to the UK, so it gets trucked up to N.Ireland to avoid the tariff.

 

When i look around i see a lot of French, Italian, German, Spannish owned companies based in the UK who will now be considering whether they will continue in the UK as they are at the moment. The same will be the case with Ford, Nissan, Toyota etc and as soon as people see the consequences of Brexit, they will get onto their MP's and there will be a change in mood.

[Consumer dude]

The idea that MPs might block brexix does not sit right with me and it shouldn't sit right with anyone. Any government that ignores the will of the people is seriously asking for trouble..

[unclebulgaria67]

The idea that MPs might block brexix does not sit right with me and it shouldn't sit right with anyone. Any government that ignores the will of the people is seriously asking for trouble..

 

You have obviously not read and understood the Guardian article linked to. It explains that this referendum is not binding in any way. If government wanted it to be binding, they could have put wording in the bill passed to say it would be implemented by government. But of course they can't do that because the UK does not have a written constituition. We elect 650 MP's to consider and vote on what the government put Forward.

 

Do you really expect government to proceed with Brexit even if the consequences are proving to be very bad for the economy and people ? For example if the currency falls to a very low level, Banks start getting into trouble, companies start cutting jobs etc.

[Consumer dude]

I am fully aware that it is not legally binding but it is morally and the government still uses the peoples money to do what they want. If the government wants to do its own thing and not act for the people by the people then I would urge the people to start withholding there taxes until such a time the government acts on the will of the people. Its either democracy or it is not. It can't be had both ways..

[unclebulgaria67]

Former Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie now wishes he voted remain.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zqwlc#play

 

A lot of people have changed their minds and it will be interesting what happens.