CAG CRA S.A.R Club

[pebsham]

S.A.R.'d Experian and got the following reply:

 

 

I want to give them as little info as I can and I'm not sure they need it or it is a requirement of the act (never given it to anybody else).

 

Any advise whether I should give it to them?

[cashins]

Patrickq1

 

Saw an article in the Business Section of The Times (Friday 8th).

 

Goldfish has been offloaded by its American owners to...Barclays, who say that it will be fully integrated into the Barclaycard system.

 

David

[patrickq1]

yes already read it cash thanks not too worried as they are already in breach of cca so its put up or shutup as far as i am concerned they wont get a penny from me

patrickq1

[ODC]

Patrickq1

 

Saw an article in the Business Section of The Times (Friday 8th).

 

Goldfish has been offloaded by its American owners to...Barclays, who say that it will be fully integrated into the Barclaycard system.

 

David

I suppose that means that in another 10yrs or so people can expect letters from Lowells (if they are still in business) asking them to confirm an address they lived at in 2008:rolleyes:

[babybear39]

They'll have a hard job finding me in Australia

[sosumi]

Looking through hubby's CRFs from Equifax and CallCredit through checkmyfile.com (Experian don't give their data to checkmyfile - not monopolistic enough for them I suppose:rolleyes:)

Well anyway, there are so many inaccuracies it's shocking enough to be funny. 2 defaults for 2 credit cards would be enough, don't you think? What about 4 defaults for 2 credit cards? All on the same report!

And there's more. Also none of the defaulted credit cards have credit agreements - so we're wondering if these 'mistakes' might have been added as a final sting from a cross creditor? Who knows. It's a mystery.

We have two years (thankfully) to sort it out, and in any case I'm writing about them. Most people won't be in the same position, which makes me angry, but having to deal with one thing at a time just now.8)

[jody123]

I submitted a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) in relation to an alleged shortfall debt on a mortgage....

 

They sent statements but nothing else so I sent them a letter before action complete with my understanding of what a 'relevant filing system" is (i.e. structured and semi-structured based on the court case in 2003) ...I have now received a huge package which contains more information than the first time around but with a letter containing the following points - can anyone clarify without too much trouble if these are valid:

 

1. A copy of the mortgage deed is not retained on sale of the porperty if the property was registered land as is most probable then you are in aposition to obtain an office copy of the mortgage deed direct from HM Land Registry.

 

2. A copy of the mortgage application is paper based and is not held in a relevant filing system by HBOS. HBOS are not obliged to provide this as part of a data Subject Access request. Mortgage Deeds are not your personal data.

 

3. With regard to your request for information relating to manual intervention, HBOS plc is under no statutory obligation to record this information and therefore, I am unable to assist further.

 

4. Details of the sale of the property, work to the property, independent valuations on the property - is not your personal data.

 

5. Your endowment application is paper based and is not held in a relevant filing system by HBOS. HBOS is not obliged to provide this as part of a DSAR. HBOS does not hold a record of payments and other actions on this policy, this ca be obtained from your policy provider.

 

6.The terms and conditions leaflet would have been provided when your mortgage was taken out., HBOS is not obliged to provide this as part of a DSAR

 

Any comments - or suggestions on the way forward gratefully received.

 

Jody

[sillygirl1]

4. Details of the sale of the property, work to the property, independent valuations on the property - is not your personal data.

 

Try this as a reply to them

 

As point 4 above is not my personal data I am therefore not liable for any costs or actions resulting from actions undertaken by this point......

 

Cheeky whatsits or what - it is your personal data as they are using it to form part of their claim against you!

5. Your endowment application is paper based and is not held in a relevant filing system by HBOS. HBOS is not obliged to provide this as part of a DSAR. HBOS does not hold a record of payments and other actions on this policy, this ca be obtained from your policy provider.

 

 

6.The terms and conditions leaflet would have been provided when your mortgage was taken out., HBOS is not obliged to provide this as part of a DSAR

 

If HBOS were the providers of the mortgage they ARE obliged to provide this as part of a DSAR - they should know what terms and conditions they are acting under at all times for all products - if not then they cannot enforce the terms and conditions if they don't have the relevant documentation.

 

I'm currently dealing with GMAC on a repo - they sent a letter asking for £5000, then a letter saying it will be £3,000 - I replied that as there were that amount of charges to reclaim call it quits or a CPR Part 18 request will follow.... gone very quiet since two letters in quick succession in November last year!

[PriorityOne]

 

2. A copy of the mortgage application is paper based and is not held in a relevant filing system by HBOS. HBOS are not obliged to provide this as part of a data Subject Access request. Mortgage Deeds are not your personal data. Mortgage Deeds are not your personal data ? Since when ? If it relates to you and forms a basis for their claim, then it represents personal data. If they have none.... not even a meaningless Application.... as they claim, then what on earth are they hoping to achieve by going through with court action ?! Sounds as if they mught have something on microfiche, but don't want you to have it.... possibly because it would be illegible anyway, as most things on microfiche are.

 

3. With regard to your request for information relating to manual intervention, HBOS plc is under no statutory obligation to record this information and therefore, I am unable to assist further.

 

I would ask them to state upon which legal basis this reasoning depends.

 

4. Details of the sale of the property, work to the property, independent valuations on the property - is not your personal data.

 

As above...

 

5. Your endowment application is paper based and is not held in a relevant filing system by HBOS. HBOS is not obliged to provide this as part of a DSAR. HBOS does not hold a record of payments and other actions on this policy, this ca be obtained from your policy provider.

 

Bowlarks... they must have some info. in relation to this because if you miss a payment on your endowment, they inform the mortgage provider when it's linked to the mortgage.

 

6.The terms and conditions leaflet would have been provided when your mortgage was taken out., HBOS is not obliged to provide this as part of a DSAR

 

.... because they don't have it. Oh dear... Ask them to confirm.

 

Any comments - or suggestions on the way forward gratefully received.

 

Jody

 

They appear to have nothing !... so what docs. are they relying on to collect this shortfall then ?

 

[ScarletPimpernel]

With regard to the manual intervention issue, their statement sounds very carefully constructed and weaselly. Even if they don't have to record manual interventions by law, if they did so they are obliged to supply it under a SAR. I would ask them to clarify whether or not any manual intervention took place, and that if it did, they did not record any of it.

 

They may be right in suggesting that they don't have to send T&Cs as part of a SAR, as they are usually a generic document and not personalised. However, if they choose to go to court they'll have to produce them under CPR anyway. One has to wonder why a reputable company wouldn't just supply a copy on request - unless they have something to hide, or haven't got a copy.

[jody123]

Hi guys,

 

thanks for the above answers - they have already proceeded to court - and the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was initiated because for 8 months prior to their submitting the claim we asked for "proof" and none was forthcoming...This was an endowment policy based "career" mortgage - which was withdrawn in 1998 as there is a "warning career withdrawn" on the borrowers statements. There's also a "loan B" that we cannot get the breakdown for. And the endowment policy was cashed in in 1999 with a value of £1500....after running for 8 years on a £30K policy....there was also a MIG that we can't get the details for, but I suspect that this was tied to it being an endowment policy rather than a repayment and the policy is based on the difference between the two in the event of a shortfall...as such its a guarantee and therefore statute barred after 6 years.

 

 

Its frustrating, annoying and gut wrenching.....they say "you owe this", but then fail to supply supporting paperwork either through a SAR or a CPR18 request - I think the only way we are going to get to the bottom of this is to continue with the court defence of the "prove it" variety and see where we get to from there.

[car2403]

Hi guys,

 

thanks for the above answers - they have already proceeded to court - and the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was initiated because for 8 months prior to their submitting the claim we asked for "proof" and none was forthcoming...This was an endowment policy based "career" mortgage - which was withdrawn in 1998 as there is a "warning career withdrawn" on the borrowers statements. There's also a "loan B" that we cannot get the breakdown for. And the endowment policy was cashed in in 1999 with a value of £1500....after running for 8 years on a £30K policy....there was also a MIG that we can't get the details for, but I suspect that this was tied to it being an endowment policy rather than a repayment and the policy is based on the difference between the two in the event of a shortfall...as such its a guarantee and therefore statute barred after 6 years.

 

 

Its frustrating, annoying and gut wrenching.....they say "you owe this", but then fail to supply supporting paperwork either through a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) or a CPR18 request - I think the only way we are going to get to the bottom of this is to continue with the court defence of the "prove it" variety and see where we get to from there.

 

The problem being that if they can prove their case, even on the steps of the Court on the day of the hearing, that type of defence will ultimately fail.

 

What we need to see is Judges holding these companies, failing to supply documentation as required under CPR/SAR's, etc, and not allowing the admission of that evidence that hasn't already been disclosed.

 

What happens in practise is that the Judge will allow the evidence, despite no previous disclosure, as they are so concerned with the possibility of appeals against their decisions for not allowing it - I can't see any other reason why a litigant in person can have a request refused to allow the admission of non-disclosed evidence.

 

If you "know" of a possible defence, (such as unlawful bringing of the claim, unlawful default, etc) you're betting off stating the "put up or shut up" defence, with an "in the alternative, which is denied, where it is held that the claim can continue as outlined" statement putting these additional defence arguments forward. (Also means that you won't have to amend your defence at a later stage - which requires permission and an application fee!)

[jody123]

Unlawful bringing of the claim - forgive my ignorance Chris, but what does this mean? I've noticed on the file that they should have sent me a 7 day letter prior to issuing the court claim - but no letter was received and according the their computer records none was sent.

 

Defence already filed in the prove it genre...as I see it now there are a couple of things that could reduce the debt...could argue that possession was unlawful in that the amount outstanding at time of possession was a solicitors bill that according to the conditions of the mortgage would be added to the "life of the mortgage" i.e. not immediately payable.

There's also a counterclaim for underselling, but that's all dealt with on my other thread.

 

I've also noticed that I am missing a page from the solicitors response to the SAR...think I'd best ask for this just in case it contains anything pertinent! that and half of the screen grabs have boxes over the information!

 

Hey ho....

 

Jody

[patrickq1]

What we need to see is Judges holding these companies, failing to supply documentation as required under CPR/S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'s, etc, and not allowing the admission of that evidence that hasn't already been disclosed

me thinks they are hiding something that will be extremely damaging to their case,hopefully the judge remembers his warning to them for their failure to disclose is of equal importance to him as it is to you jody and i would point out their deliberate failures and failing to show the evidence you have requested has not been forthcoming,perhaps they are out of time with this claim,as it is they cannot retract so i think you got a good hand and on the stairs of the outside the courtroom perhaps you may want to make an example of them unless of course they would like to offer you adequate compensation for the harrassment not to mention the severall thousand shortage in the mis selling of the property possibly a sharp practice has taken place in the sale ie a estate agent belonging to the bank or solicitors ??? a lot of questions still remain unanswered perhaps you could ask for an audit of this lot

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

you burning the midnight oil like me jody lol

patrickq1

[car2403]

This is some way off topic now, so do you have a thread for this case, jody?

[jody123]

hi chris,

 

Yup, I have a thread...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/123416-another-county-court-summons.html

 

Anyone know if they can deny me the info requested as per my post 657??

 

regards,

 

Jody

[Allwood]

Barclays have been very naughty with me, I requested a SAR from them and did not reply within the 40 days so I contaced the ICO to see what I should do. I was told to send them a chase letter, which I did do and copied the letter also to ICO. However in the meantime I contacted the Post offce to see if my postal order had been cashed by the Barclays I got a letter back stating that it has not cashed and they would let me know if it had been put forward forcashing within 25 days of receipt their letter. On the basis of the Post Office letter I sent another request to the Barclays and sent a futher £10.00 for the same information I also advised them that this was the second request as the first one was not complied with and also I was informed that the post office had infromed me that my first £10.00 has not been cashed, I also copied it to the ICO. A week afther I had sent the second letter I received a lette from Barclays enclosing a copy of my chase letter asking for information that concerning my account with them. I wrote back informing them that it was so long ago that I do not have that information but advise them that I had a bacrlay card back in the late ninties and informed that I lived at my address over 6 years, I also informed them that I had sent them antother request and a further £10.00 postal order on the basis that I had been informed by the post office that they did not cash my first postal order and it was outside the 40days time limit, I also copied in the ICO and sent them copy of the letter that I received from the post office.

 

I got a letter back stating they hope to have my requested sort out by 6 March, then yesterday I received to large envelops from Barclays enclosing details of 2 account that I had with them, I cannot make head or tail of them. However, on going thought old boxes I found details of the account that I had with them and the account number that I received from Barclay dose not match up at all the last time I had contact with Barclays was March 2000. When I have gone thought the accounts I will post again.

 

Hope this make sense to people.

[car2403]

Hope this make sense to people.

 

It does, but I'm not sure if you're asking a question or not?

[patrickq1]

you need to write back to BARCLAYS and inform them the documentation they have sent you is not in intelligable format and you shall be making a further complaint to the ICO ,this should wake them up i know what they have sent you does not make sense plus they wont have sent any balances with what they send they do this deliberately to put you of your claim just hang in their you are on the right course so again send back to BARCLAYS your third complaint and a copy to the ICO that you request the format to be in the normal statement form as you can understand this

patrickq1

[mrmarmite]

you need to write back to BARCLAYS and inform them the documentation they have sent you is not in intelligable format and you shall be making a further complaint to the Information Commissioners Office ,this should wake them up i know what they have sent you does not make sense plus they wont have sent any balances with what they send they do this deliberately to put you of your claim just hang in their you are on the right course so again send back to BARCLAYS your third complaint and a copy to the Information Commissioners Office that you request the format to be in the normal statement form as you can understand this

patrickq1

 

 

lol if life was so easy, my old man had bcard and he knew it gonna go tits up coz interest rates went up as everything else did, except the wages that is. SO sent CCA direct to b-card, got app back, since then has been defaulted and gone to mercers (despite outstanding court order for harassement and request seeking an injunction) they still continue, they go by their own laws NOT the laws of the land ! ! ! ! !

[Patma]

Hi, I sent an SAR to Barclaycard quoting three account numbers and after some jiggery pokery on their part, claiming I hadn't sent any payment, they eventually "found" my missing cheque and 3 envelopes arrived the other day containing nothing but monthly computer printouts of balances. My accounts date back to the 1980s, but the data they sent only goes as far back as 2002. I wanted everything they hold on me, but the accompanying letters they sent state this is all they hold on me, which can't be true.I noticed that as of last April,an amount equal to the outstanding balance pops up as a credit for each account and subsequently a zero balance has been recorded every month since then,even though I was making monthly payments up until December 07 when they failed in my CCA requests. It says nothing about who my debts have been transferred to.

 

I would be very grateful for opinions and advise about the letter I got, as I don't know if what they say is true or not. Here's the letter which I got three copies of.....

 

[mrmarmite]

it's a load of rubbish, SAR means ALL information going back the LAST 6 years, it's just an excuse letter, if needed write back and remind them of their obligations under the DPA.

 

i got simular and excuse after excuse so i took em to court for non-disclosure, funny thing is 5 days after summons the paper work appeard on me door step

[Patma]

Thanks for that mrmarmite, I thought it was rubbish, but wasn't sure.

I thought I'd seen somewhere that they should send everything from when the accounts were opened, and in fact they've already sent me copies of application forms for 2 of the accounts under my CCA requests, so that proves they have some personal data going back to the beginning of the accounts.

I particularly want to see copies of alleged defaults, and who my accounts have been sold/passed to. November last Calders and RMA began chasing two of the debts which I had been paying happily for 10 years with no hassles from anyone and alleged I had defaulted because I hadn't increased payments. I didn't get any request to increase payments however or receive any default notices, but they wouldn't listen (as if they would!),and so I'm trying to prise information out of them and see what I can do to get even. All the best, Patma

[mrmarmite]

all taht info should be with it as long as it's within the last six years