Diskmandave -v- Robinson, Way & Co - The Never Ending Story

[diskmandave]

If you use Google Earth, type in, "Hammerstone Road Manchester", and then zoom directly in to it to appreciate just how big the place is!

[ODC]

Not heard a thing, but be aware that Mcr TS's covers a truly huge area. I know the site where they're based as I used to deliver there, in fact, I know my way around there well enough to hand deliver my complaint straight to the TS's office. The place is like a small town (more or less next door to Gorton Monastery).

 

Regards, Dave.

Besides which they are probably extremely busy with the amount of complaints they must get daily from RWC

[diskmandave]

Right then.....! Need some help now please!

 

Really only expecting 1 of a handful of ppl to pass comment on this but all comments welcome as usual, could do with getting this out tomorrow...

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/madam,

 

I refer to your letter dated 13th June 2007. Whilst I appreciate that you have clearly marked

this letter as your final response to my complaint, it is my intention to resolve this matter

ammicably and without the need to resort to either legal action by either party or the making

of a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service which would maybe incur an investigation

fee of £400.00 or more on your part regardless of the outcome of such an investigation.

 

If I may, I will address the comments you have made.

 

1) You are stating that you are not a creditor for the purpose of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Therefore, it follows that, should you not be a creditor that I can't be a debtor.

"189(1) "debtor" means the individual receiving credit under a consumer credit

agreement." This is following the logic of your own arguement.

 

2) Also your arguement is further flawed by the statement legal assignee under section 136 of

The Law of Property Act 1925.

To be a legal assignee the assignment would have to

be absolute whereby the rights and duties pass to the assignee.

 

3) You alledge that you are no obligation to provide copy documentation.

I have to say that Trading Standards take a different view to this entirely, and that it is

my own belief that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 takes precedent over the Law of Property

Act 1925. Thus; Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.189(1)--

“creditor “ means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or

the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by

assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit

agreement, includes the prospective creditor. As you should be fully aware, an assignment

under s.136 of The Law of Property Act 1925 MUST be an absolute assignment granting the

assignee all rights and obligations. I quote from the appropriate section "(1) Any absolute

assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor..."

 

4) By your own veilled admission there has been a failure under the Consumer Credit Act by

both Robinson, Way and Company Ltd and HFC Bank rendering this account unenforceable.

Therefore I do not admit or deny that any monies are owing, unless you should wish to put

before a court of law any such strict proof.

 

5) You argue that you own the rights, but not the duties of the account, persay Section 189(1).

A company who buys the rights but not the duties of a contract will not be able to sue,

unless the contract was made after 10th May 2000 and was therefore subject to the Contracts

(Rights of third parties) act 1999; and if that contract were carefully drawn up to comply with

the requirements of the said act (this couldn't be shown unless you could provide the credit

agreement, and terms and conditions of the agreement).

 

Before approaching the Financial Ombudsman Service, I am prepared to put forward a final

attempt of resolution of this matter to both of our satisfactions.

 

I would propose that:

All monies paid to date to be taken as Full and Final Settlement;

The account to be marked down to show a zero balance;

Any Credit Reference Agency activity would be removed and ceased forthwith at once;

This agreement must be confirmed in writing;

 

This agreement would be a waiver of rights binding on both parties, in as much that

neither party could at any time take legal action against the other, for any reason.

 

In return, as an agreed contract I would accept the following;

I will withdraw complaints made to Manchester and Salford Trading Standards, for

continually pursuing collection action whilst in dispute and secondly, for committing the

summary offence in Section 78 of the CCA 1974.

I will not pursue the matter further with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

I will not report both the original creditor and RW&C to The Financial Crime Branch of HM

Treasury, as both have failed to keep records in line with the current anti money laundering

regulations.

 

 

I look forward to your reply to attempt to resolve this matter amicably.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ODC]

 

I would propose that:

All monies paid to date to be taken as Full and Final Settlement;

The account to be marked down to show a zero balance;

Any Credit Reference Agency activity would be removed and ceased forthwith at once;

This agreement must be confirmed in writing;

 

 

This is a tricky one. A clever solicitor could use this as an admission or acknowledgement that a debt exists they may well accept any money paid as an admiision and NOT choose to accept it as a a Full and Final settlement. Then you would be back at the start of six years of them trying to fight you.

[diskmandave]

Realise that, but last payment was in April and the idiot YBS accidently made a payment last week too. So really, it's already 5 years and 51 weeks and ticking...

[diskmandave]

Just added, after "5)"

 

I would also add to this, that by continually sending threatening letters such as "Notice of

Legal Proceedings" (14/06/07), and others, that you are further breaching, The Office of Fair

Trading Debt collection guidance July 2003 (updated December 2006).

2.8(k). not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

This could also be construed as harassment contrary to Section 40(a) of the Administration

of Justice Act 1970.

[rory32]

You might also wish to consider something about the Data Protection Act 1998 (or the debtors act as it's apparently known in DCA land ). After all if they have no copy of the agreement where is your consent to process your data.

[diskmandave]

Thanks Rory, just go & paste the piece from LTSB letter then and will put 'final' letter up...

[diskmandave]

OK, this is looking like the final draft.....

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/madam,

 

I refer to your letter dated 13th June 2007. Whilst I appreciate that you have clearly marked

this letter as your final response to my complaint, it is my intention to resolve this matter

ammicably and without the need to resort to either legal action by either party or the making

of a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service which would maybe incur an investigation

fee of £400.00 or more on your part regardless of the outcome of such an investigation.

 

If I may, I will address the comments you have made.

 

1) You are stating that you are not a creditor for the purpose of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Therefore, it follows that, should you not be a creditor that I can't be a debtor.

"189(1) "debtor" means the individual receiving credit under a consumer credit

agreement." This is following the logic of your own arguement.

 

2) Also your arguement is further flawed by the statement legal assignee under section 136 of

The Law of Property Act 1925.

To be a legal assignee the assignment would have to

be absolute whereby the rights and duties pass to the assignee.

 

3) You alledge that you are no obligation to provide copy documentation.

I have to say that Trading Standards take a different view to this entirely, and that it is

my own belief that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 takes precedent over the Law of Property

Act 1925. Thus; Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.189(1)--

“creditor “ means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or

the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by

assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit

agreement, includes the prospective creditor. As you should be fully aware, an assignment

under s.136 of The Law of Property Act 1925 MUST be an absolute assignment granting the

assignee all rights and obligations. I quote from the appropriate section "(1) Any absolute

assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor..."

 

4) By your own veilled admission there has been a failure under the Consumer Credit Act by

both Robinson, Way and Company Ltd and HFC Bank rendering this account unenforceable.

Therefore I do not admit or deny that any monies are owing, unless you should wish to put

before a court of law any such strict proof.

 

5) You argue that you own the rights, but not the duties of the account, persay Section 189(1).

A company who buys the rights but not the duties of a contract will not be able to sue,

unless the contract was made after 10th May 2000 and was therefore subject to the Contracts

(Rights of third parties) act 1999; and if that contract were carefully drawn up to comply with

the requirements of the said act (this couldn't be shown unless you could provide the credit

agreement, and terms and conditions of the agreement).

 

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against

an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute

and as such the following would apply:

*You may not demand payment on the account nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add any further interest or charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to any third party.

* You may not register information in respect of the account to Credit Reference Agencies.

* You may not issue or update a default notice related to the account.

 

I would also add to this, that by continually sending threatening letters such as "Notice of

Legal Proceedings" (14/06/07), and others, that you are further breaching, The Office of Fair

Trading Debt collection guidance July 2003 (updated December 2006).

2.8(k). not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

This could also be construed as harassment contrary to Section 40(a) of the Administration

of Justice Act 1970.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the

Data Protection Act 1998 to cease processing any data in relation to this account with

immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from

all of your internal records.

 

Before approaching the Financial Ombudsman Service, I am prepared to put forward a final

attempt of resolution of this matter to both of our satisfactions.

 

I would propose that:

All monies paid to date to be taken as Full and Final Settlement;

The account to be marked down to show a zero balance;

Any Credit Reference Agency activity would be removed and ceased forthwith at once;

This agreement must be confirmed in writing;

 

This agreement would be a waiver of rights binding on both parties, in as much that

neither party could at any time take legal action against the other, for any reason.

 

In return, as an agreed contract I would accept the following;

I will withdraw complaints made to Manchester and Salford Trading Standards, for

continually pursuing collection action whilst in dispute and secondly, for committing the

summary offence in Section 78 of the CCA 1974.

I will not pursue the matter further with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

I will not report both the original creditor and RW&C to The Financial Crime Branch of HM

Treasury, as both have failed to keep records in line with the current anti money laundering

regulations.

 

 

I look forward to your reply to attempt to resolve this matter amicably.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[tomterm8]

OK, this is looking like the final draft.....

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/madam,

 

I refer to your letter dated 13th June 2007. Whilst I appreciate that you have clearly marked

this letter as your final response to my complaint, it is my intention to resolve this matter

ammicably and without the need to resort to either legal action by either party or the making

of a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service which would maybe incur an investigation

fee of £400.00 or more on your part regardless of the outcome of such an investigation.

 

If I may, I will address the comments you have made.

 

1) You are stating that you are not a creditor for the purpose of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It follows that you are not entitled to enforce this agreement since for the purpose of the act you are not the owner. I quote s189(1) of the act:

 

“owner” means a person who bails or (in Scotland) hires out goods under a consumer hire agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer hire agreement, includes the prospective bailor or person from whom the goods are to be hired;

 

2) Also your arguement is further flawed by the statement legal assignee under section 136 of

The Law of Property Act 1925.

To be a legal assignee the assignment would have to

be absolute whereby the rights and duties pass to the assignee. As you are aware, in these cirumstances I would be entitled to require the addition of the original creditor as a party to this action.

 

3) You alledge that you are no obligation to provide copy documentation.

I have to say that Trading Standards take a different view to this entirely, my own belief that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 takes precedent over the Law of Property

Act 1925. Thus; Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.189(1)--

“creditor “ means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or

the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by

assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit

agreement, includes the prospective creditor. As you should be fully aware, an assignment

under s.136 of The Law of Property Act 1925 MUST be an absolute assignment granting the

assignee all rights and obligations. I quote from the appropriate section "(1) Any absolute

assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor..."

 

4) By your own veilled admission there has been a failure under the Consumer Credit Act by

both Robinson, Way and Company Ltd and HFC Bank rendering this account unenforceable.

Therefore I do not admit or deny that any monies are owing, unless you should wish to put

before a court of law any such strict proof. I note that it is also clear to me that the action of HFC Bank in disclosing my personal details without consent or an enforceable contractual or equitable legal right

may amount to a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

[ I would remove this section.

 

5) You argue that you own the rights, but not the duties of the account, persay Section 189(1).

A company who buys the rights but not the duties of a contract will not be able to sue,

unless the contract was made after 10th May 2000 and was therefore subject to the Contracts

(Rights of third parties) act 1999; and if that contract were carefully drawn up to comply with

the requirements of the said act (this couldn't be shown unless you could provide the credit

agreement, and terms and conditions of the agreement). ]

 

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against

an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute

and as such the following would apply:

*You may not demand payment on the account nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add any further interest or charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to any third party.

* You may not register information in respect of the account to Credit Reference Agencies.

* You may not issue or update a default notice related to the account.

 

I would also add to this, that by continually sending threatening letters such as "Notice of

Legal Proceedings" (14/06/07), and others, that you are further breaching, The Office of Fair

Trading Debt collection guidance July 2003 (updated December 2006).

2.8(k). not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

This could also be construed as harassment contrary to Section 40(a) of the Administration

of Justice Act 1970.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the

Data Protection Act 1998 to cease processing any data in relation to this account with

immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from

all of your internal records.

 

Before approaching the Financial Ombudsman Service, I am prepared to put forward a final

attempt of resolution of this matter to both of our satisfactions.

 

I would propose that:

All monies paid to date to be taken as Full and Final Settlement;

The account to be marked down to show a zero balance;

Any Credit Reference Agency activity would be removed and ceased forthwith at once;

This agreement must be confirmed in writing;

 

This agreement would be a waiver of rights binding on both parties, in as much that

neither party could at any time take legal action against the other, for any reason.

 

In return, as an agreed contract I would accept the following;

I will withdraw complaints made to Manchester and Salford Trading Standards, for

continually pursuing collection action whilst in dispute and secondly, for committing the

summary offence in Section 78 of the CCA 1974.

I will not pursue the matter further with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

I will not report both the original creditor and RW&C to The Financial Crime Branch of HM

Treasury, as both have failed to keep records in line with the current anti money laundering

regulations.

 

 

I look forward to your reply to attempt to resolve this matter amicably.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You asked me to comment:)

[maggieboo]

Just to be sure of facts.... I've applied to be a doorstep collector......

 

Yep, I will do it!

 

do you think you might apply to work at lowells also?!

[itsamomentintime]

dave

 

i dont see any timescales/threats of court action in your letter

 

i mean, look at all the breaches in your letter that they have committed

 

and your knowledge of various acts is impressive

 

i for one would be taking a much harder line than you are

 

but thats just me

[Curlyben]

Slightly confused as I thought you'd sent it already see #260.

This version looks even better, but you do need to give them a time frame as mentioned above.

 

The s10 has a 21 day limit, so you could always go for the for the whole thing.

[diskmandave]

Thanks for the modification tt8, much appreciated.

It's more than about time you finally got that 2nd green too!

 

For the 2 prior posts, CB & itsa..... This is a bit of damage limitation on my part as I hashed up the formal complaints procedure, was a bit down, just rushed it etc... etc... My Mum was very ill & my mind was completely somewhere else. Now they've replied setting down their legal arguement i'm going to give them one last shot at giving up before letting the heavy mob out! Everything's back to great now and all guns are blazing like they were...

 

Thanks again tt8, letter going now.

[ODC]

Sorry to hear about your mum DMD I couldnt understand why you were apparently giving in to these Rogues. Glad to hear the old DMD is back. BTW did you ever get an interview for Doorstep collection agent

[diskmandave]

No, it never happened, got an email back saying, "this will be dealt with by post" .

 

I'm guessing they know full well who I am if they watch these forums, but I don't care! We can do this in Tameside CC and i'll bring the Advertiser and probably some CAGers to watch & report!

 

Right then, letter printed proof read & a couple of typo's & small grammer errors corrected, envelope licked and off we go!

 

Ohh... I've not signed it, so it's not an acknowledgement...

 

Been at this all night now and i've 2 letters from Barclays that I haven't even opened yet, ohhh the thought of Mercers again!!!!

[tomterm8]

Thanks for the modification tt8, much appreciated.

It's more than about time you finally got that 2nd green too!

 

 

Your welcome.

[diskmandave]

Small update... Letter sent!

[diskmandave]

Letter signed for!

 

Your item with reference DLxxxxxxxxxGB was delivered from our CENTRAL MANCHESTER Delivery Office on 28/06/07 .

[itsamomentintime]

any updates dave?

[Drexl Spivey]

We are sure you are as keen as us to ensure the OFT's guidelines regarding statute barred debts are adhered to. Because of this we wish to advise you of the following one-off settlement quote :

 

An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

 

 

IF YOU CALL WITHIN 7 WORKING DAYS , WE CAN OFFER A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF TEXT OF THIS LAW THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO READ AND ARE PREPARED TO NARROW IT DOWN TO ONE RELEVANT PARAGRAPH.

 

ACT NOW ! If we do not receive a response from you will will have no alternative but to take no further interest in your scheme.

 

TELL US ! You must tell us if you cannot understand the Limitations Act 1980 . We WILL HELP YOU if we can . If you have a problem understanding this law or the office of fair trading guidelines on debt collection procedure , it is better to consult and be acquainted than to simply ignore it.

 

THIS LAW WILL NOT GO AWAY. - IT MAKES SENSE TO READ IT IN FULL – NOW .

 

_______________

 

 

Just thinking how to word my statute barred letter like they word theirs....might even add those yellow strips

[ODC]

We are sure you are as keen as us to ensure the OFT's guidelines regarding statute barred debts are adhered to. Because of this we wish to advise you of the following one-off settlement quote :

 

An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

 

 

IF YOU CALL WITHIN 7 WORKING DAYS , WE CAN OFFER A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF TEXT THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO READ AND ARE PREPARED TO NARROW IT DOWN TO ONE RELEVANT PARAGRAPH.

 

 

 

 

ACT NOW ! If we do not receive a response from you will will have no alternative but to take no further interest in your scheme.

 

TELL US ! You must tell us if you cannot understand the Limitations Act 1980 . We WILL HELP YOU if we can . If you have a problem understanding this law or the office of fair trading guidelines on debt collection procedure , it is better to consult and be acquainted than to simply ignore it.

 

THIS LAW WILL NOT GO AWAY. - IT MAKES SENSE TO READ IT IN FULL – NOW .

 

_______________

 

 

Just thinking how to word my statute barred letter like they word theirs....might even add those yellow strips

Dont forget to add ''THIS LETTER IS VALID EVEN IF NOT READ BY YOU''

[Curlyben]

Drexl, love it.

So when you going to send it.

Mind you there is a problem with it !!

The grammar and spelling are too good

[Drexl Spivey]

How could I forget that ODC ! , oops..

--------

 

THIS IS NOT A COURT DOCUMENT

 

THIS LETTER IS VALID EVEN IF NOT READ BY YOU

 

We are sure you are as keen as us to ensure the OFT's guidelines regarding statute barred debts are adhered to. Because of this we wish to advise you of the following one-off settlement quote :

 

An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

 

 

IF YOU CALL WITHIN 7 WORKING DAYS , WE CAN OFFER A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF TEXT IN THIS LAW THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO READ AND ARE PREPARED TO NARROW IT DOWN TO ONE RELEVANT PARAGRAPH.

 

 

ACT NOW ! If we do not receive a response from you we will have no alternative but to take no further interest in your scheme.

 

TELL US ! You must tell us if you cannot understand the Limitations Act 1980 . We WILL HELP YOU if we can . If you have a problem understanding this law or the office of fair trading guidelines on debt collection procedure regarding harassment , it is better to consult and be acquainted with than to simply ignore it.

 

 

THIS LAW WILL NOT GO AWAY. - IT MAKES SENSE TO READ IT IN FULL – NOW .

 

 

There, much better .. thanks

[tomterm8]

How could I forget that ODC ! , oops..

 

THIS LETTER IS VALID EVEN IF NOT READ BY YOU

 

We are sure you are as keen as us to ensure the OFT's guidelines regarding statute barred debts are adhered to. Because of this we wish to advise you of the following one-off settlement quote :

 

An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

 

 

IF YOU FAIL TO CALL WITHIN 7 WORKING DAYS , WE CAN OFFER A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF TEXT IN THIS LAW THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO READ AND ARE PREPARED TO NARROW IT DOWN TO ONE RELEVANT PARAGRAPH.

 

 

 

 

ACT NOW ! If we do not receive a response from you we will have no alternative but to take no further interest in your scheme.

 

TELL US ! You must WRITE TO us if you cannot understand the Limitations Act 1980 . We WILL HELP YOU if we can . If you have a problem understanding this law or the office of fair trading guidelines on debt collection procedure , it is better to consult and be acquainted than to simply ignore it.

 

THIS LAW WILL NOT GO AWAY. - IT MAKES SENSE TO READ IT IN FULL – NOW .

 

P.S. We also do a FREE OFFER on the PRE-ACTION PROTOCOLS. You can SECURE your understanding of these relevant LAWS by SIMPLY WRITING TO US quoting S-O-D-O-F26

 

 

There, much better .. thanks

Do you really want them to call you?