Big Motoring World/Blackhorse finance Faulty car AO68 YEK - repair under warranty? did not resolve issue - what are my options now

[dx100uk]

a multipoint inspection check in not a service!!

and you mean DPC not EPC.

Diesel particulate filters, all you need to know about DPFs | RAC Drive

WWW.RAC.CO.UK

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Diesel particulate filters (DPFs) are a complex but necessary addition to modern diesels, but what are they, what do they do, and how do you...

from post 1:

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turns out it wasn’t the issue and next thing they find is the dpf filter is disintegrating and that will cost £1800 to replace

right now go find the service schedule recommended for you car and when the DPC should be changed period under the service schedule.

[Peugeot5008]

Is this okay ? 
 

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Dear Black horse, big motoring world 

Hire purchase agreement number 100467425 – vehicle registration number AO68 YEK

As you know, on 03/12/2023 you sold me a vehicle AO68 YEK on a hire purchase agreement. The vehicle was supplied by your agents – Big Motoring World based in Wimbledon.
Within about four days of taking delivery of the vehicle it started to manifest problems and in fact one of the vehicle's system electronics had to be reset every 150 miles or so in order to keep it working.
This was immediately reported to your dealers on 07/12/2023 and a warranty repair was carried out at an another garage with the approval of your dealer.

The problem turned out to be a short-term repair and as I have explained above, the vehicle has to be taken to a repairer about every 150 miles for the electronics to be reset the vehicle ceases to function and can no longer be driven.

As I have already explained, I telephoned Big Motoring World on 04/01/2024 and not only did I inform them of the defect but I also informed them that I was asserting my right to reject the vehicle for a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Despite that, Big Motoring World has refused to accept the rejection even though they are obliged to by statute.

The fault with the vehicle is still persisting and effectively the car is unreliable because at any moment it may stop functioning until it has another system reset.

Separately, just three days ago on 05/01/2024 I received the papers including service history relating to the vehicle and it then became clear that the vehicle had not been properly serviced before I purchased it. In fact it had missed at least one schedule service due on 05/11/2023, you may have conducted a multi point check before the vehicle was released but as your website clearly states “vehicle service due? No problem! We ensure all our cars with upcoming services are fully serviced before arriving on our forecourt “ 

On that basis, they are in breach of contract in that the vehicle does not match its description. When I decided to purchase a vehicle from Big Motoring World I relied on the specific description of the vehicle which they sold me and also on the representations that they made in respect of the steps they took to make sure that those vehicles were of good quality, well maintained and reliable.

Also, a second breach of contract in regards to my warranty, I was sold the warranty as the main selling point to me was I was able to take the car to ANY vat registered garage capped at an hourly rate of £75+ vat. 

This warranty change unknowingly to me 2 weeks after I signed the contract with the original warranty terms. 

I am in a position now where I have a vehicle which is effectively not driveable. Where I have attempted to assert my statutory to reject the vehicle and this has been refused. Where I have entered into a contract with you to provide me with a vehicle under a hire purchase agreement and yet in respect of which I have been deprived of substantially the whole benefit.

I am now confirming my right of rejection of the vehicle to you in writing.

I would like to know by return what steps you intend to take to arrange with your dealer to recover the vehicle and what steps you intend to take to cancel our hire purchase agreement and to refund me all of the money which I have paid so far and to bring this contract to an end.

Please note, that I am well aware that you are going to be reluctant to do this. I'm well aware that you are going to claim that you have to carry out investigation. I'm well aware that you are going to say that it will take you eight weeks to complete the investigation.

I'm putting your notice that I'm not prepared to abide by your timescales. I have a vehicle which doesn't work and so time is of the essence.

If you oblige me to, I will take the necessary legal action small claims Court.

I would remind you of your FCA duty under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 to treat me fairly and to communicate with me fairly.
I would also remind you of the new FCA "consumer duty" and which you have an obligation to produce "good outcomes" for your customers.

Yours

 

[BankFodder]

Please check back tomorrow

[Nicky Boy]

Tagging @theberengersniper about the questions above..

[Peugeot5008]

Dx the recommended service schedule is every 12k miles or 12 months what ever is sooner and the DPF has a life span of between 80k-100k miles

have I understood your question properly ?  

[dx100uk]

good well done...and the car has travelled?

dx

 

[Peugeot5008]

81,390 miles 

[dx100uk]

IMHO the DPF should have been checked in their so called multipoint inspection check as its +1300mls into its replacement window and they should do these check with ref to the makers service schedules.

it would be nice to get a listing of what they do check

and 

it would also be useful to get the manufacturers recommended actions at each type of service. there should be 'major services' listed at certain mileages or as the car ages. they all have them. 

if we had a listing of those we could nail things down.

this looks promising

Peugeot 5008 service information and maintenance intervals | Auto ABC

WWW.AUTO-ABC.EU

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Peugeot 5008 oil change intervals, capacities and specifications, service information for filters, spark plugs, belts and other automotive parts

 

[Peugeot5008]

That is music to my ears only problem is it had 79,926 miles on it when I bought it

granted still close enough to warrant an inspection I believe ? 
 

on that paperwork it shows the inspection done in June at mileage 79,923 is it acceptable to have a car sat at a dealership for 6 months and only move 3 miles presumably from moving it around their dealership to get other vehicles out to be viewed.

 

if this is the case surely that is not good for the dpf filter ? Turn on move a couple meters turn off and so on ? 

[theberengersniper]

Hello,

My apologies, I'm parachuting in here after an extended break away.

In case it assists, a vehicle inspection would normally include an electronic scan of the car's ECU to determine if there were any 'active' (meaning current, i.e. not historic or transient) faults recorded in there.

Cars with DPFs fitted have two additional sensors in their exhaust system; one before the filter and one after, whose job it is to measure the differential pressure across the DPF. If the pressure differential is within acceptable limits then your DPF is operating properly and is not blocked. If the pressure differential reaches a pre-determined point, the car will attempt an active regeneration cycle. This means the car will inject additional fuel into the exhaust system and alter its timing to raise the exhaust temperature beyond normal levels in order to burn off accumulated soot and particles, thus unblocking the DPF and reducing the differential pressure. If your car had a blocked DPF, that issue would be recorded in the ECU and should be picked up on inspection, and you should see a dashboard warning light.

To answer your question about distance travelled, you're right, a DPF-equipped vehicle that's only driven very short distances is a recipe for disaster. In fact it's why you hear so much about DPFs in the first place these days. When diesel cars became popular dealers were pushing them onto every Tom, Dick and Harry that walked in, including people like Aunty Margaret that only ever runs down the road to the paper shop once a week. These vehicles never have the opportunity to reach operating temperature, which is a requirement (along with other parameters) in order for the car to trigger an automatic exhaust regeneration cycle, which is the process that's responsible for cleaning out the DPF, so these cars never do and the filter becomes blocked.

There seems to be some suggestion that rather than being blocked, your DPF has actually broken down inside. That does happen, particularly if the DPF has become too hot at some point, because its internal structure can melt. If that happens you have two choices, but as only one of them is legal, that's the only one we can recommend here, which is complete DPF replacement. Unfortunately, DPFs are extremely expensive, hence their theft is quite common.

If there are any other specific questions I can answer, don't hesitate to tag me.

Edited January 12 by theberengersniper

[Peugeot5008]

Hi thank you for that 

so the fact it has driven 3 miles in the 6 months it was on their forecourt could have potentially done some serious damage to the dpf ?

have I understood that correctly ? 

[theberengersniper]

It certainly won't have done the car any good, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, the other danger is extended idling is also bad for DPFs, and I would imagine cars sat for that length of time have been started and left to run from time to time to ensure their batteries remained in reasonable condition and their interiors don't go mouldy.

Because idling doesn't heat the exhaust to a sufficient temperature, and it's not sufficient to satisfy the car's ECU that a 'drive cycle' (complete heating and driving) has occurred, the DPF just accumulates soot.

It's the same effect as driving short distances.

[Peugeot5008]

Just an update guys, big motoring world have finally accepted my rejection.

I have taken the vehicle back as they said it was down to me to get it back to them which I know isn’t the case but I was just happy to be done with them.

they are now refusing to give me my deposit back as I shortfalled on my part ex so due to this I have asked that I am reimbursed for every penny I have spent fixing their vehicle.

also the finance company are now still investigating to see wether I need to continue paying for the finance even after I have handed the vehicle back which I didn’t realise was even a thing

 

[BankFodder]

Well done on your result so far. This is excellent news.

We can help you recover all the rest of the money that you are owed.

Let us know when you have got the refund that they have agreed to in your bank account.

In the meantime, please list up all of your losses – any shortfall, expenses, cost of repairs et cetera.

List them all here in bullet pointed fashion together with dates and we will help you get them back. Your chances of success almost 100%

[AndyOrch]

2 hours ago, Peugeot5008 said:

also the finance company are now still investigating to see whether I need to continue paying for the finance even after I have handed the vehicle back which I didn’t realise was even a thing

Well thats another can of worms but essentially thats between them and the car dealer but you must ensure you are released form the agreement. 

 

 

.

[BankFodder]

Yes, I hadn't appreciated the separate issue of the finance company.

If they give you any problems we will deal with them as well. It won't be difficult so don't worry.

Get your money back from BMW And then give us a list of all your losses and let us know what is happening with the finance company.

I will be amazed if the finance company want to cause any trouble over this but if they do then we can almost guarantee you how success against them

[Peugeot5008]

Thank you so much guys your help has been amazing and hugely appreciated I couldn’t have done without you. 
 

as far as the money they are refusing to give me goes 

£1000 deposit paid 3/12/2023 

£120 diagnostic (they have said they will give me £70 of this back) 29/12/23

£220 to change ad blue injector (Peugeot first thought of what was wrong) 02/01/24

They offered me £4700 for my part ex

settlement figure was £5443 

as far as money in my account

I have received £256 which from their explanation they have worked out £1000 deposit plus £4700 part ex offer = £5700 - 5443 settlement figure = £256 which I have received 

[BankFodder]

Okay. Thanks.

Let us know when the money has arrived and then we will proceed for the rest.

 

[Peugeot5008]

The money has already gone into my account yesterday 

[Peugeot5008]

I’m just a bit weary about causing too much of a fuss incase they start being awkward about the finance. If they can do that I don’t know ? 

i can’t get a new car until the finance has cleared as I won’t get approved for another finance

therefore I am having to get taxis everywhere and my children have been forced to spend most of their time at home with their mum as we can’t go anywhere unless it’s in a taxi together 

[BankFodder]

Okay. Please prepare a properly structured and bullet pointed list of losses. If you aren't sure about whether or not a loss is recoverable then include it here and we can form an opinion.

To begin with, dates, work carried out, cost.

The whole idea is that you should be out of pocket=zero.

There should be no improvement in their situation so they should be obliged to pay for any improvements that you have made to the vehicle.

I haven't gone back through the whole thread so you will have to remind us about how long you had the vehicle and how much used did you have out of it during that time.

Any expenses etc caused by taxis blah blah blah will have to be dealt with a game Steve finance company separately.

I hope you are keeping a detailed list of all expenses incurred with receipts in support.

We will Draft a letter to the finance company later on today

[BankFodder]

What has the finance company said about it all? Have they given you any time scales or deadlines?

[Peugeot5008]

- £1000 deposit 03/12/2023 

- £120 diagnostic at Peugeot 29/12/2023

- £220 further investigation into the diagnostic as first one was inconclusive, further investigation resulted in them finding the ad blue injector was clogged and not working so they changed that but didn’t solve the issue 02/01/2024 

- £33 ferry booking to take the car back to them as they refused to pick it up 01/02/2024 

-£40 fuel to get the car back to them 

- £200 lost days work to take the car back to them 

I got the vehicle on the 3rd December 2023 and took it back to them on the 2nd February 2024 I traveled 1698 miles in the vehicle in the time I had it 400 miles of that was travelling home from the dealer and taking it back to the dealer 

I have pictures of the mileage and the dash sat outside big motoring world on the 2nd February to prove the millage. 
 

the finance company haven’t given me any timeframes as I have asked several times but they cannot confirm any dates or how long it will take 

but they have told me that any costs incurred now IE taxis, car rental etc will not be covered by anyone so we are literally stuck at home 

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

I feel we should almost asked you to start a new thread so that we can get a brief summary and then start this new claim from zero.

For the moment, could you please refresh our memories. I'm sure that it is on this thread already but let's get a timeline of events.

Just a list please.

Date – purchase the vehicle
date appeared
date communicated with BMW
they communicate with finance company – et cetera.

£1000 is a no-brainer – I don't really understand why they are withholding it. Have you an expert nation?

With they given notice about the diagnostic and the further investigation?
I had the impression that you had had a lot of work done on the vehicle and that there were a number of improvements. This is not to be the case other than a clogged injector.
Were BMW or the finance company given notice of this?
You say that you drove 400 miles to return the car to the dealer. Does this mean that you live 400 miles away from the dealer?

Now that BMW has accepted the rejection – do you have this in writing from them? Please can you post it here?
You have informed the finance company about this – when? Please could you post them message that you send them informing this?

There are quite a few questions which will have to be asked in order to prepare the ground you can be certain that BMW won't be happy so we need to be thoroughly ready. Did you sign anything with BMW? Full and final settlement, for instance?
Sorry to ask you to go over this all again. I'm not able at the moment to work through the thread and it would be helpful if you can just give a bullet pointed list of the events that have happened and a few escalations.

It will be worth it in the end.



 

[Peugeot5008]

Yeah sure, 

- 03/12/2023 purchased vehicle 

- 07/12/2023 ad blue and engine management light appeared 

- 07/12/2023 contacted BMW to report the issue they told me to ring warranty 

- 05/01/2024 reported to finance company after BMW refused rejection 

- 31/01/2024 rejection finally accepted by BMW 

-01/02/2024 took the car back to their snodland department in kent 

regarding the £1000 deposit I was under same impression I should get it back but their explanation is that because I was £744 short for my previous finance settlement after they offered £4700 for my part ex that is why they are keeping the £744 I have received £256 from them 

I kept them informed all the way through with what I was doing regarding taking the car to Peugeot for diagnostic and repair as the garage they told me to take it to told me that only Peugeot could fix it

they were fully aware as they offered to give me £70 back towards the diagnostic cost which I never received

they are saying they will not reimburse me the money as they never agreed for me to have it done. I did email them with my intentions of taking the car to Peugeot to have the fix done but I never received a reply so I took it anyway as I needed a working vehicle but unfortunately the fix didn’t work 

regarding the 400 miles I may have not written it very clearly my mistake. I live about 200 miles away so 200 miles driving home after collecting the car then 200 miles to take it back to them 

as for the rejection I have the email from the manager at big motoring world saying they are accepting the rejection on the basis that they can confirm the fault is what I said it was. I also have another email confirming they foudn the fault and are happy to reject the vehicle. 
 

I didn’t get asked to sign anything and didn’t know I needed to ? 
 

I informed the finance company immediately by phone and also sent them the email confirmation from BMW outlining the fact that BMW have accepted the rejection