Big Motoring World/Blackhorse finance Faulty car AO68 YEK - repair under warranty? did not resolve issue - what are my options now

[just_jue]

We had a similar experience with Big Motor World and with the help of DX & Bank Fodder was able to return the car and cancel the finance.

They do make it a hard as possible, just stick to your guns and hopefully it will get sorted for you.

[Peugeot5008]

Hi very sorry I didn’t reply to that question I am extremely grateful for all of your amazing advice and the time you put into this. 

in regards to the drivability of the vehicle at this moment in time it is drivable as Peugeot cleared the fault ( third time now ) which on both other occasions has given me 3 days of driving before the lights return at the mileage they was taken off at

peugeot have said this is also very weird as normally when they clear the faults on this it should reset to the starting mileage but mine hasn’t

in regards to the MOT is it worth me waiting for the ad blue light to come back on in 2 days as I have been told it will 100% fail with this light on ? 
 

this is what I sent to both the finance company and the dealership sorry it is quite long 

Quote

NOTICE OF REJECTION VEHICLE REGISTRATION 

I am writing to formally assert my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding the car that I purchased from big motoring world on 03/12/2023, for which I paid £13,100 plus warranty, guardex and gap insurance

Within 4 days of ownership, a significant defect has materialised in the vehicle, specifically related to the emissions 

Initially, the ad blue warning light come up on the dash followed by the engine management light. After ringing big motoring world Wimbledon to report this they told me to ring big assist warranty to organise a repair.

I took the vehicle to the garage big assist advised me to take it to, they told me it was the nox sensor is faulty but it isn't something they could repair.

After contacting the warranty team again they booked me in with a garage on the 15th of January 2024, at this point I only had 150 miles left on the vehicle before it will become impossible to start to which I expressed is not good enough as I have a heavily pregnant wife who has hospital appointments weekly for the safety of our baby and 2 children in school 12 miles away.

I was then told my warranty had now changed and only a big motoring world garage can fix the issue (this warranty was missold to me). At the point of sale for the warranty I was told I could take the car to ANY vat registered garage at a price cap of £75 per hour plus vat.

I rang big motoring world again to request a rejection of the vehicle to which I was placed on hold for 48 minutes followed by being cut off without a call back. I have requested a vehicle rejection again today only to be told you will not accept it as I have "accepted" a repair. This is not the case, when I rang you the first time (4 days after receiving the vehicle) you told me to ring the warranty, not once did I accept a repair and not once did you say ring the warranty  for a repair or return the vehicle for a full refund. 

Upon professional advice, I was advised to not conduct short journeys or leave the car running at a stand still Consequently, the vehicle has been taken to an authorized garage in which a comprehensive diagnostic report of the issues found has been obtained and sent over to both you and the dealership

Under the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, it is explicitly stated that goods must be accurately described, fit for their intended purpose, and of satisfactory quality. Given that the dealership is in breach of this contractual obligation, and considering that the defect materialised in the car within the first 30 days of ownership, I therefore am rejecting the car and requesting a refund in accordance to my statutory rights.  

Please respond without any delay, clearly outlining the process for receiving a refund and the arrangements for facilitating the return of the vehicle.

Additionally, I expect Big Motoring World to take full responsibility for coordinating the return of the vehicle. In the event that any expenses are incurred by me during this process, I anticipate that Big Motoring World will promptly reimburse me.

I trust that you will handle this matter with the seriousness it deserves, acknowledging my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and promptly addressing the refund and return of the vehicle in accordance with the law.

 

 

I did read the customer service guide regarding phone calls but unfortunately all of the phone calls were made before I found this forum

but everything since finding this has been via email 

[BankFodder]

Have you raised the issue of the charge of the warranty on this thread before?

The thread is getting complicated but I can't say I have noticed that

Yes, it would be a good idea to wait until the light comes on again and then take it for its MOT.
Are there any other defects that you are aware of or is that it?

When you refer to phone calls that you have made – such as the one that you made and you are placed on hold for 48 minutes – please will you give the dates of these.

We lose the sense of the chronology you simply refer to phone calls without giving us any way of understanding when that call might have been made.

More importantly, you haven't explained to the finance company any of the dates so they have no sense of the chronology either other than you refer to things like – "four days after…" – "I was then…"

You also haven't explained what particular rights it is that you are trying to assert

You said that you received professional advice advice you not to conduct short journeys et cetera. Who gave you that advice and you have in writing?

The letter you have written is sort of okay but it could be a lot clearer. – I think it would be better if you ran draft examples past us before sending things off. You have come to us for advice after all.

Let's see what kind of reply you get by Wednesday. However, your letter gives a sense that you are reposing trust in them and that you are expecting them to treat you reasonably. Good luck

I understand that the situation is now that you have an appointment on 15 January – is that correct?

Is that to conduct a repair or what?

[Peugeot5008]

I don’t think I did mention the change of the warranty on this thread, as this has been going on since the 3rd of December there has been so much that has happened since then 

I sent that email to them before I posted on this forum, anything else going forward I will run past you guys first as I did with the other email I wanted to send asking if I am incriminating myself. 
 

It was the 12th December that I had the phone call and was on hold for 48 minutes 

i understand I havnt been the most efficient and probably been naive in this whole situation and havnt recorded or taken note of anything I should have but I have never dealt with a situation like this and every time I have had a confrontation with them anger and desperation takes over

the advice I received regarding the short journeys etc was from the peugeot garage that done the repairs I do not have it in writing but the garage have told me any paper work I need they can assist with 

Regarding the mot I agree I will wait until the light comes back on and as for any other defects with the vehicle I havnt noticed anything else wrong. 
 

as for the appointment on the 15th January I havnt confirmed that appointment with them as I did not want them to take that as me accepting another repair 

 

sorry again that I havnt kept all of the appropriate information I will going forward 

 

Sorry that appointment on the 15 th is supposed to be for a diagnostic it was the earliest they could get me into a garage apparently 

[BankFodder]

Well I think you have burnt your boats on the 30 days short-term right to reject.

I think you had probably better accept the appointment of the 15th. Now that you no longer enjoy the short-term right to reject I think you have to show that you are cooperating to deal with the problem.
I think you should write to the hire purchase company and copy it into the dealer.

Tell them that the dealership has arranged an appointment provisionally on 15 January to address the problems that you have been experiencing with the vehicle that they sold you through their hire purchase agreement on XXX date. You hope that the dealer has made them aware that the vehicle is almost done driveable to the extent that it can only be relied upon for short periods of time before the electronics within it have to be reset.

Tell them that as it is within six months of the date of purchase you are now asserting your right to reject the vehicle for a full refund subject to their single opportunity to repair the defect.

If they do not repair the defect on the 15th or if the repair fails then you will be requiring then to cancel a hire purchase agreement, to refund you all of your money plus interest paid and to make arrangements to collect the vehicle without any delay.

Tell them that they should acknowledge this letter but in any event you will be proceeding with the appointment on the 15th unless they as the hire purchase company and effectively the sellers the vehicle instruct you not to do this.

Post the draft here.

I would like to know more about the change warranty. If this happened after you purchase the vehicle with the warranty then this would be a breach of contract by them

[Peugeot5008]

What has made me burn my boats sorry ? The fact that I havnt accepted the appointment on the 15th ? Or the fact I havnt kept enough evidence ? 
 

I will try to write something along these lines thank you so much 

as for the warranty, when I was at the garage they explained the warranty to me as I can take the car to ANY vat registered garage local to me but said they advise me against going to Peugeot as they only cover £75 + vat per hour and Peugeot are a lot more than that 

On the 20th December I rang them to discuss the fact that the 15th January was too far away to wait for a repair to which they told me the warranty has now changed and I have to take it back to one of their garages 

I obviously kicked up a stink and said that’s not what I was sold and they just kept repeating there’s nothing they can do for us so I again asked to reject the vehicle 

after doing this the lady on the phone said okay no problem I will go and speak to a manger about the rejection she came back on the phone and said I have spoken to a manager we have decided that we will allow you to go to a local garage as you live so far away

so i took it to Peugeot and this is now where we are 

[BankFodder]

I think you have burnt your boats in respect of the 30 day right to reject. You haven't asserted your rights in any meaningful way and certainly the phone call is deniable.

I really do hope that you can get the recordings in response to your SAR but I would be quite surprised.

If you had written evidence that you had asserted the right at the moment that you started to notice the defect - in other words about 4 days after you had purchased the vehicle then you would be quids in.

Please stand by for a further response tomorrow but in the meantime Please prepare the letter and post it up

I have now read your account about the change in the warranty. Do you have any written evidence of this

[Peugeot5008]

Sorry I know this is off subject but I have literally just tonight received the warranty and Maintanence record for the car through the post

should they have serviced the vehicle before sale if it shows in this booklet that it was due a service on 5/11/2023 ? 
 

if so then they havnt serviced it before selling it to me as there is no stamp in this booklet 

[dx100uk]

have you still the advert?

i would expect any dealership to claim to have done a full 101 point check on all cars for sale. 

bet its on their website.

dx

 

 

[Peugeot5008]

i don’t still have the advert but this is what it says on their website 

We’re proud to put our name against the cars we sell.

We don’t take half measures when it comes to ensuring the highest quality standards are met and that’s why each car undergoes a stringent 200-point check before it ever reaches our forecourt.

[dx100uk]

via chat just now>

We do a multi-point vehicle check to make sure the vehicle is up to our retail standards, we also have a smart repair and alloy repair team on site.

These checks ensure that they are mechanically sound and running perfectly, we also provide HPI checks to ensure they have never been involved in any accidents and also an MOT and service if the vehicles need one

[Peugeot5008]

It also says this on their website 

Quote

We carry out an oil and filter change on every car that’s due an upcoming service. During the service, essential checks are also carried out on critical components such as the suspension and braking system to ensure they do not let you down.

Dear black horse and big motoring world 

Big assist warranty has arranged an appointment provisionally on 15 January to address the problems that i have been experiencing with the vehicle that you sold me through your hire purchase agreement on 03/12/2023.

I have personally made you both aware that the vehicle is almost none driveable to the extent that it can only be relied upon for short periods of time before the electronics within it have to be reset.

As it is within six months of the date of purchase I am now asserting my right to reject the vehicle for a full refund subject to your single opportunity to repair the defect. Although you have already effectively had one repair that has failed I will give you this last opportunity to repair the defect again.

If you do not repair the defect on the 15th or if the repair fails then I will be requiring you to cancel the hire purchase agreement, to refund me all of my money plus interest paid and to make arrangements to collect the vehicle without any delay.

you should both acknowledge this email but in any event I will be proceeding with the appointment on the 15th unless you as the hire purchase company and effectively the sellers of the vehicle instruct me not to do this

Says this clear as day on their website also 

Quote

Vehicle service due? No problem! We ensure all our cars with upcoming services are fully serviced before arriving on the forecourt.

 

[BankFodder]

Please monitor this thread for a reply tomorrow.

The  information you have discovered about the warranty and the advertisements and the fact that it wasn't serviced before it was sold to you makes a substantial difference and will change our approach.

[dx100uk]

4 hours ago, Peugeot5008 said:

We don’t take half measures when it comes to ensuring the highest quality standards are met and that’s why each car undergoes a stringent 200-point check before it ever reaches our forecourt.

[BankFodder]

I'm trying to figure out what is the best thing to do.

Last night it seemed to be glaringly simple but this morning I feel it's a little more complicated as to the best way forward.

Certainly it is about time that you gave notice to the finance company. They are responsible for it. I think I've already made the point that they should have been informed right at the beginning and life would be much easier.
 

Quote

Dear XXX

Hire purchase agreement number XXX – vehicle registration number XXX

As you know, on XXX date you sold me a vehicle registration number XXX on a hire purchase agreement. The vehicle was supplied by your agents – Big Motoring World based in Wimbledon.
Within about four days of taking delivery of the vehicle it started to manifest problems and in fact one of the vehicle's system electronics had to be reset every 150 miles or so in order to keep it working.
This was immediately reported to your dealers on XXX date and a warranty repair was carried out at a another garage with the approval of your dealer.

The problem turned out to be a short-term repair and as I have explained above, the vehicle has to be taken to a repairer about every 150 miles for the electronics to be reset the vehicle ceases to function and can no longer be driven.

As I have already explained, I telephoned Big Motoring World on XXX date and not only did I inform them of the defect but I also informed them that I was asserting my right to reject the vehicle for a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Despite that, Big Motoring World has refused to accept the rejection even though they are obliged to by statute.

The fault with the vehicle is still persisting and effectively the car is unreliable because at any moment it may stop functioning until it has another system reset.

Separately, just three days ago on XXX date I received the papers including service history relating to the vehicle and it then became clear that the vehicle had not been properly serviced before I purchased it. In fact it had missed at least one schedule service.

Big Motoring World make it very clear on their website that the vehicles they sell are thoroughly checked. Also they claim to carry out all necessary servicing before the vehicle is delivered.
They have failed to do this.

On that basis, they are in breach of contract in that the vehicle does not match its description. When I decided to purchase a vehicle from Big Motoring World I relied on the specific description of the vehicle which they sold me and also on the representations that they made in respect of the steps they took to make sure that those vehicles were of good quality, well maintained and reliable.

I am in a position now where I have a vehicle which is effectively not driveable. Where I have attempted to assert my statutory to reject the vehicle and this has been refused. Where I have entered into a contract with you to provide me with a vehicle under a hire purchase agreement and yet in respect of which I have been deprived of substantially the whole benefit.

I am now confirming might rejection of the vehicle to you in writing.

I would like to know by return what steps you intend to take to arrange with your dealer to recover the vehicle and what steps you intend to take to cancel our hire purchase agreement and to refund me all of the money which I have paid so far and to bring this contract to an end.

Please note, that I am well aware that you are going to be reluctant to do this. I'm well aware that you are going to claim that you have to carry out investigation. I'm well aware that you are going to say that it will take you eight weeks to complete the investigation.

I'm putting your notice that I'm not prepared to abide by your timescales. I have a vehicle which doesn't work and so time is of the essence.

If you oblige me to, I will take the necessary legal action Small Claims Court.

I would remind you of your FCA duty under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 to treat me fairly and to communicate with me fairly.
I would also remind you of the new FCA "consumer duty" and which you have an obligation to produce "good outcomes" for your customers.

Yours

Signed

I suggest that you sent this letter immediately. By email and also by post. Send it to the hire purchase company and send a copy to the dealer.

Although this is not actually taking action, by this you are finally putting them on notice as to exactly what has happened and what you're looking for.

As I think I have already said, don't imagine this is going to be easy. If they grind their heels in then I expect that they will require inspections, eight weeks to carry out some kind investigation. I expect they will also say that you have failed to assert your rights correctly – or at all.

I do hope that you get the recordings you are looking for in response to your SAR – but frankly I can imagine that you will have a lot of difficulty. If you do get them of course then the whole thing is fairly slamdunk although you will still have to force them to comply.

I'm not sure what to do about your appointment on the 15th. It is only a diagnosis.

What happens if they do repair it and they do carry out the service et cetera. Would you be happy to keep the vehicle or do you simply want to get shot of it?

Don't forget, that if you get rid of it then you are in a position where you have to buy another vehicle and the whole sorry tale might start again with another dealer.

One advantage of showing some muscle to this lot is that they will start to take you seriously and they will be very careful to make sure that the vehicle is in good condition and that any future difficulties will be dealt with properly because they will realise what will happen.

On that basis you might decide that it is in your interests that having bared your teeth, you get the vehicle repaired and you use it in the full knowledge that if anything else goes wrong within a reasonable period of time – meaning several years, that they are likely to be a bit more attentive to their statutory duty.

You start dealing with the new dealer then you may well have to deliver some "training" to them all over again.

Have a look at the above proposed letter. Please correct it or suggest amendments. Fill in the dates. Add anything or take anything away that I have misunderstood or missed out and post your final draft here.

[Peugeot5008]

Thank you so much that letter is amazing and perfectly accurate for everything you have put in regards to what has happened
 

I will certainly add the dates to this and send it straight over 

I did receive an email yesterday regarding the SARS to which they told me they have accepted my request and will send them over within 4 weeks 

personally i strongly believe if they accept the rejection I will take it purely down to the fact of how I have been treated thus far I want nothing to do with them anymore as a company. 
 

one question I do have is, if they did carry out a service would they have put the stamp in this booklet I received ? Or are they online or something now ? 
 

again thank you so much for all of your help 

[BankFodder]

Good question about the stamp. I would expect the book to be stamped because it is something that you would have to supply to anybody you sold it to.
Let's see what they say.

In terms of the letter, fill in the blanks and post it here before you send it. I'd like to see it before it is sent

I understand what you are saying in terms of rejecting the vehicle – but you are now acting on principle rather than pure pragmatics and economics.

Believe me, it will be more satisfying to remain a troublesome client of theirs then to walk away and then have to start dealing with another dealer who might give you exactly the same kind of problem or even worse.

I can imagine that once you make headway and you force them to act, they will be pleased to see the back of you. If you would answer satisfaction, you can make sure the car is in proper condition – properly maintained by them – and make them wary of crossing you.

Although it's not very noble, that is a much nicer place to be.

The only difficulty here is that you have for whatever reason bought a car which is about 80 miles away – 160 miles round trip.
That is something that is going to dog you for the next few years of ownership.
To my mind that would be the only pragmatic reason for getting rid of the vehicle – but then to learn your lesson and even though it may take longer time, by vehicle a lot closer.

I'm afraid people don't think of these things they buy vehicles. We have had people on this forum who have lived in Scotland and have bought vehicles from people south of London.
They came to regret it very quickly.

We could get you into a position where you reject the vehicle but then forego the rejection in return for a reduction in the price.

That is another interesting outcome that could be thought about.

[Nicky Boy]

On the service stamp... I  believe some manufacturers now keep service info online, but if the car has a service booklet with previous stamps, it's obviously old school and the service history is in the book.

They can't suddenly say the service history is online. 

[BankFodder]

24 minutes ago, Nicky Boy said:

 

They can't suddenly say the service history is online. 

I think that the book is really only evidential. It would be very sloppy of them to have a service book but could not keep it up to date but if the vehicle really had been serviced and there was evidence of that elsewhere, for instance online – then I think the fact that the book hasn't been stamped is a very minor issue.
However I sort of imagine that main dealers – sellers of new cars could well keep a database of new vehicles and their service histories et cetera. I can scarcely imagine that a second-hand dealer would bother to do that.

[Peugeot5008]

I do really understand what your saying about keeping it if they get it fixed which I have spoke to my wife about

she has expressed her concerns in way that she would still be too scared to take it on longer journeys incase it happens again with the children in the car on a motorway for example 

[BankFodder]

Of course it's a matter for you but I think it's a bit oversimplifying things if you imagine you will then get another vehicle which will be perfectly okay.
I hope it will – but you can't be sure – and at least if the fault in this vehicle is correctly diagnosed and repaired and if you have asserted yourself with the dealer the finance company, then you might have an easier time of it later on.

I'm really just enlarging your scope of options. That probably makes things more difficult for you but anyway it's up to you of course.

I asked you in an earlier question if there were any other problems with the vehicle now that you have driven it a little bit – but you didn't respond

[Peugeot5008]

Sorry I thought I responded to this my mistake,

nothing has really shown itself apart from a weird burning/chemically like smell yesterday when we had the heating on in the car 

I’m not sure what this could be or even if it is anything of concern 

and thank you so much for going through all of my options I would be up creek if it wasn’t for you guys and all of your help and knowledge I can’t thank you enough 

I have just gone through my paperwork from them and found a piece of paper mixed it in with it all headed service history 

For some reason I cannot upload the picture of it so I will try and explain what it shows 

it shows all the services up to date 12 month service on 13/01/2020

2 year service brake fluid service 04/01/2021

60,000 mile service 07/01/2022

4 year service 09/11/2022

multi point inspection check by big motoring world 07/06/2023 does this count as a service ?  

 

Service history .pdf

[Peugeot5008]

Showing on this paperwork that they conducted the multi point check in June, when I took the car to Peugeot they told that the EPC (I think that’s what it’s called) was upgraded in August. 
 

would them doing that show that the issue was there when they had the vehicle as when I took the car to Peugeot the first time they said that the first thing they checked regarding the issue I’m having is if the epc has been updated but it was done in August so it can’t be that? 
 

does this show there was obviously an issue there before or is it just something that has to be done at a certain date or something ? 

[BankFodder]

I have no idea. Sorry.

Maybe someone else who understands these things will come along

[Peugeot5008]

Do I still have a chance with saying about the service if they done a multi point check in June ? As stated on the service history ?