UKCPS MNPR PCN - Centrum 4600 (which is Unit 5 (Medical Centre) Centrum, 4600 Park Approach Thorpe Park Leeds West Yorkshire LS15 8GB - observed leaving site - Surely not enforceable ?......

[Speshe]

Hi all thanks for your help in advance

is this ticket enforceable

it has no clear site address ?

doesn't this need a postcode and full address to be enforceable ?

I have not responded to them yet should I ?...

can they issue a CCJ ? 

The reason I parked there briefly was to take my father for some fresh air as he has diagnosed dementia and was becoming agitated in the car.

The signage actually said free parking though I have read from reviews from surrounding businesses that I was required to fill out the car reg at an iPad station .

All I saw on the sign was free parking so did not read all the small writing.

 

2022-12-07 NTK+ 202301-23 Reminder letter.pdf

[FTMDave]

Well, it depends what you mean by "enforceable".

 

Anyone can send a threatening letter to anyone else.  Anyone can start a court claim through the MCOL site, it only takes a minute and a small fee.  If I knew your address I could sue you for £200 for distress because I don't like the style of shoes you're wearing today.  Nothing stopping me.

 

Obviously if the matter ended up in front of a judge I would get a right roasting for such a ludicrous claim.

 

But fleecers like UKCPS hope that you'll be frightened by their threats of court and will give in.

 

The good news is that there are about a million things wrong legally with the bilge they have sent you.  They are highly unlikely to do court.  Expect them to contribute hugely to deforestation over the coming months though. 

 

Well done for not contacting them.  Keep radio silence.  These charlatans never, ever accept appeals - ever.  All appealing does is throw away legal protections. 

 

You mention a CCJ.  CCJs are used to punish people who defy court orders.  The only way you can get a CCJ is if you receive a Letter of Claim, are then taken to court, then lose the court case, and decide to defy the court and refuse to pay.  That's when you'd get a CCJ.

 

There's nothing written on their toilet paper about inputting any registration.

 

What's this nonsense about "Driver - observed leaving site".  Did that happen?

 

 

[Speshe]

Hi Dave

thanks for the informative and witty response I did laugh to myself ,

 

yes I did leave the area briefly around 30minutes with my father then returned I imagine there would be CCTV from the surrounding shops or car park showing this.  

 

All I saw was large writing on the car par sign saying free parking 

 

thanks for clarifying the CCJ process really helpful

[FTMDave]

As you say, "Centrum 4600" isn't an address.

 

Then they have to include a period of parking, which they haven't done.

 

There are grace and consideration periods.  You parked from 11:10 till ... when?  You could easily have been within the grace period.

 

Just ignore their threats.  But be sure to come back here if they ever send you a Letter of Claim.

[lookinforinfo]

I am not sure that centrum 4600 is no an address. I found it it in Thorpe park, Leeds. The Act doessn't say it needsa post code just to specify the address.

But the period of parking is not specified which makes it non compliant . It is important therefore not to identify the driver. This is often done by stating "I parked the car"  rather than " driver parked the car."

The parking companies will tell you that they are proceeding on the basis that the driver and the keeper are the same person. The courts do not accept that reasoning  so  the crooks do need to have more substantive proof of who was driving and it is not easy for them so do not help them.

 

 

[dx100uk]

please complete this so we can advise you PROPERLY

 

 

[dx100uk]

BTW: this is a CCTV capture (MNPR) which they are NOT allowed to do under GDPR rules re: privacy i'm sure, following people leaving the site. 

 

so a reverse trespass claim. 

none have ever succeeded in court if defended properly.

 

dx

 

[Jenny21]

Can the terms on the signs be clearly read from the drivers position? 

Is the penalty amount more prominent than anything else on the sign? 

Do they have a picture of your car *parked* in a position where you couldn't miss those signs? 

If parking was "free if you entered your details" what service were they charging *you* for? 

 

(Remember, they can't charge you a penalty! You have to have bought a service from them! 

 

Have you seen a valid, signed contract between them and the landowner allowing them to monitor the site? 

 

What terms does it say? 

 

You only need to win *one* of these or other points to win at court. 

Only 5% of cases even go to court. 

 

I'd reply to it (making no admissions about leaving the area, just say that you saw signs that said it was free. 

They'll reject that appeal, after that you can either appeal to POPLA or wait and see if they're dumb enough to take it to court. 

 

If you get a Money Court Claim from them come back to us and we can help you fight it.  

[dx100uk]

urm not sure on appealing.

let others comment please.

 

dx

[FTMDave]

I agree.

 

Appealing gets your nowhere, the PPCs always reject appeals.  Always.  Even worse, most people who appeal out themselves as the driver.

 

UKCPS are IPC members too, and the trade association's appeals body is the IAS, not POPLA.  The IAS is the worst kangaroo court imaginable. 

 

Indeed these horrible bodies were set up by the two solicitors who had their fingers in the biggest slice of the PPC legal pie.  Yes, the trade association, its appeals body and the solicitors who dealt with most PPC litigation all run by the same people!  No conflict of interest there!

[brassnecked]

If its purely you were Observed leaving the site, is the reason, they are up the creek, as there are myriad reasoms uyou might legitimately walk off a site, and that would be an unfair term anyway especially as you were being watched.

[Speshe]

 

1 Date of the infringement 2-12-22

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 7-12-22

 

3 Date received 10-12-22
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] yes
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? UKCPS

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] centrum 4600 Leeds
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

Independent Appeals Service IAS

 

Have received a total of three letters demanding payment to date balance now due has gone up £130

Edited January 29, 2023 by Speshe

[FTMDave]

5 minutes ago, Speshe said:

Have received a total of three letters demanding payment to date balance now due has gone up £130

It hasn't really.

 

Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act is quite clear that the most that can be charged is £100.

 

They're just trying to scare you.

 

It's highly unlikely they will do court and if they did they'd lose.

 

Just don't ignore a Letter of Claim later down the line.

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

I have forgotten the case now and I thought it was in my Bookmarks

it was about a motorist leaving a car park on foot.

The Judge took the parking crooks to task for not mitigating the situation by telling the motorist that he could walk out the car park but it would cost him  £100. As the motorist was not informed the motorist did not have to pay. 

Can anyone remember the case.  I often refer to the Parking Prankster in these circumstances but one of his sites is now up for sale.

Found it on the Wayback machine. VCS V Ibbotson.   

I have read the case again and although the Judge pulled the rep. up by asking why VCS had not used mitigation to advise the driver that if he left the premises he would be liable for a charge the diver got off principally because the contract did not allow VCS to take out legal action against their customers.

[Speshe]

Here’s the latest letters from Debt recovery plus 

they do have an address on this one for the parking charge location but they didn’t on the original any thoughts on what to do next I.e just ignore

[FTMDave]

Just laugh at them and ignore.

 

DRP are a powerless third party.

[dx100uk]

On 29/01/2023 at 23:29, FTMDave said:

 

Just don't ignore a Letter of Claim later down the line.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Guys,

The PCN number is unredacted on the latest upload...

[honeybee13]

Good spot, NB. I've removed the pdf.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Speshe, you've reported this thread a couple of times. I'm guessing you want it reopened. 

Please post your update here. 

HB

[Oops1]

Are you able to provide an update regarding the outcome of this? I’ve received a ticket for the same place and I’m ascertaining whether it’s worth risking ignoring it!

[dx100uk]

please create your own topic by hitting create or + in the top red banner

[Speshe]

They sent a load of letters then gave up. I never paid out. Never had bad advice on this forum