UKCP/CGTT (ZZPS)/QDR ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - Junction Street Retail park. leeds

[lookinforinfo]

Are you the registered keeper of the car or your son?

[dx100uk]

plenty of like threads to read here 

you should already have been doing this BL...

not vanishing for 2mts

 

dx

 

 

dx

 

[bradfordlad]

It's me LFI

Oh I've been reading DX, don't worry!

Obviously just conscious that I get the next step right. 

Snotty letter? 

I haven't yet chanced upon a situation quite like mine though, so not sure how snotty to be! 

[dx100uk]

the stronger the better.

situation is immaterial.

its simply to prove a point

you wont be a walk over in court.

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

Game over Bradford lad. None of you need pay a penny.

The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for several reasons.

The first one is that no parking mentioned. They do have the car recorded when enteering and leaving the carpark but that is not the same as parking. After entering the car park the driver has to drive around looking for a place to park and then manoeuvre the car into the parking spot  being careful to park within the lines. Later, driving from the parking spot to the exit sign also cannot  be described as parking. Both  Schedule 4 of PoFA and the new private parking Code of practice are quite clear on this point

The signs are not clearly marked at night nor is there any mention of there being no parking at night on the entrance sign-it just states 3 hours free parking which the driver accepted as being the situation.

In the Beavis V Parking Eye v Beavis  supreme court case, the Lord Judges agreed that the penalty clause would have been invoked were it not for the legitimate interest held by PE in keeping the carpark free from overstayers to maximise the number of spaces available for parking. Here the shops are closed so PE has no legitimate interest in charging such a high charge. It is undoubtedly a penalty and the charge should be cancelled.

There is no provision within PoFA that motorists are liable to pay damages or other unspecified charges over the amount claimed on their  signs.

Schedule 4 S7[2][c]  

(c)inform the driver that the parking charges relating to the specified period of parking have not been paid in full and specify the total amount of the unpaid parking charges relating to that period, as at a time which is—

(i)specified in the notice; 

By claiming that they can charge more than the amount on their signs they are in breach of the stipulations in PoFA and thus renders the PCN unlawful. 

For all the above reasons the PCN is not compliant and only the driver is liable. You as the keeper but not the driver are therefore not liable for the debt. Also you have no intention of naming the driver so they have no one to pursue.

Edited June 20, 2023 by lookinforinfo

[Nicky Boy]

Post your snot here before sending for the guys to comment...

[bradfordlad]

Redacted copy of the Letter of Claim attached...

letter of claim.pdf

Draft Snotty Letter - keeping it short & sweet...
 

Dear DCB Legal

Thanks for your letter dated 14^th June headed “Letter of Claim”.

Now that I’ve stopped laughing at your pathetically veiled threats, I simply wanted to clarify that I have no intention of paying the sum mentioned in the letter.

Do people really still fall for these tactics?

I’m not wasting any more of my time playing silly games with your client.  I will not respond to any more of your harassment letters unless you decide to waste the Courts valuable time - I am fully aware your claim has no basis in law, please do some research and perhaps take some time to read the correspondence sent out by your client, you might learn a thing or two.

[Nicky Boy]

Short and sweet indeed. Looks OK to me.

See what others think.

Don't forget to add their ref number and send a copy yo the fleecers.

[bradfordlad]

Not snotty enough Nicky Boy?! lol! 

I did consider adding one final sentence after "...learn a thing or two", but decided "Kn*bhead." might not go down well in court! 

[lookinforinfo]

Maybe not but it would have been more accurate..

[bradfordlad]

Just bumping this up guys - is my snotty letter ok to send?   Thanks!

[Nicky Boy]

Yes,

go ahead and send.

It's just to let them know you're not an easy touch and to go forth...

Sometimes works, sometimes not.

[bradfordlad]

Thanks Nicky Boy - I know it's only short, but I think I laid down the challenge well enough! "Try me...."  

[bradfordlad]

Snotty letter sent.  I added a bit more just to fill the page...

 

Thanks for your letter dated 14^th June headed “Letter of Claim”.

Now that I’ve stopped laughing at your pathetically veiled threats, I simply wanted to clarify that I have no intention of paying the sum mentioned in the letter.

Do people really still fall for these “bully boy” tactics?

I’m not wasting any more of my time playing silly games with your client.  I will not respond to any more of your harassment letters unless you decide you want to waste the Courts valuable time too?

I am fully aware your claim has no basis in law, please do some research  - I am not going to point out the glaring mistakes in this “claim”, you are apparently a law firm – I would suggest you read the correspondence sent out by your client, and see if you’re able to spot them. Here’s a clue – there are several…..

You claim to be a law firm yet are happy to churn out this rubbish without actually reviewing the “evidence” first.  Still, I guess you’re happy to do that as you’ll still be billing them no doubt.

I’m not angry. I’m disappointed.  You’ve let your client down, you’ve let the legal system down, but most of all -  you’ve let yourself down.

[Nicky Boy]

Quite condescending... Good one.

[bradfordlad]

Well,

I sent the snotty letter by email and received a reply today as follows. 

I love their assumption that because the vehicle was "on site" that it was parked...! 

 I might pop down tonight to see if I can spot their ANPR cameras (during opening hours of course!!) and take photos of each sign on the way in, and around the area.

I also have another theory.... I believe there is a through road that leads up & out of the retail park back onto the main road.  Depending on the location of their camera, surely there's the possibility that the vehicle drove into the retail park, went straight out on the back road, parked well away from their "territory", then came back through the park on the way out?   

I guess there's a chance another camera would have recorded the vehicle leaving by this back road, so may be best not to pursue that avenue?

here's todays email.... What now guys?  Ignore until they decide to take further action?

Thanks as always  
 

Dear BRADFORDLAD,  

  We write in response to your email dated 30th June 2023. 

  We note that you state our claim has no basis and that you have experienced harassment in relation to this claim. 

  Pursuing a legally owed debt is not harassment. You may wish to seek independent legal advice in this regard. Our client pursuing this matter through the Small Claims Court is the correct course of action.  

  The terms and conditions on the signs stated that parking was not permitted for vehicles parked out of hours. As stipulated on the signs this includes "no parking between the hours of 8:30pm and 8:30am". Your vehicle was on site between the hours 8:30pm and 8:30am, as seen in the images of the vehicle attached, therefore, the Parking Charge Notice was issues correctly.  

  The Notice to Keeper was issued to you on 11th January 2023. A copy is attached. You were afforded the opportunity to; appeal the parking charge, transfer liability to the driver (if it was not you) or make payment. Neither a successful appeal, nor an adequate nomination were received, yet payment remains outstanding.   

  The Reminder Notice was issued to you on 25th January 2023. A copy is attached. This notice reiterated that payment was outstanding and confirmed that legal action may be taken, and additional costs incurred if the parking charge was not paid.  

  The matter has now progressed to this firm for recovery action, as all previous attempts to recover the charge have been unsuccessful.  

  You have 30 days from the date of this letter to pay the outstanding balance of £170.00.  Failure to do so will result in a claim being issued against you without further notice.  

   Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: -  

• Account Name: DCB Legal Ltd Client Account   
• Sort Code: 20-24-09   
• Account Number: 60964441  

  You must quote the correct case reference (beginning ‘1’) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred.  

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 434 0437 to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/  

Kind Regards, 

 xxxxxxxxxxxx

Paralegal 

DCB Legal Ltd  

[honeybee13]

So you sent the snotty letter by email?

HB

[bradfordlad]

Yes, I was away from home so no access to laptop etc.  

[Nicky Boy]

Bad idea to let them have your email...

[bradfordlad]

Not ideal I know, but it's a brand new one I created just for this debt. At least I get a "delivery receipt" so I know when it's arrived, and I can get "read receipts" too if necessary. 

[dx100uk]

still ruddy stupid thing to do, you KNOW MUCH BETTER

now is there a reply pack with that email wanting things like I&E etc?

 

[bradfordlad]

I know, but also from Friday we will be away from home for most of July so didn't want to rely on important letters coming in the post and missing them.

Anyway, no reply packwith the email.  They simply attached a copy of the Notice to Keeper, and helpfully some photos of SOME of the signage in the car park.

[FTMDave]

Anyway, yours is not the next move.  You've told them to put up or shut up.

[bradfordlad]

Exactly FTMDave. 

 

Obviously I won't reply to their email, I will wait to see what they do after 30 days....

[dx100uk]

can we have those photos if we have not got them, then everything you have received and sent out is in the thread for people to analyse going forward