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    • Morning, I purchased a car from Big Motoring World on 10th December 2023 for £14899.00. On the 15th December I had a problem with the auto start stop function of the car in which the car would stop in the middle of the road with a stop start error message. I called the big assist and the car was booked in for February. The BMW was with them for a week and it came back with the auto stop start feature all fine and all error codes cleared on the report from big motoring world. within 5 days I had the same issue. Warning light coming on and the car stopping. I called big assist again and the car was again booked in for an other repair in May. Car was taken back in may, they had the car for a week and returned with the report saying no issue with the auto stop start feature and blamed my driving. Within 5 days of having the car back it broke down again. This time undrivable. I had the rac pick my car up and take to Stephen James BMW for a full diagnostic. The diagnostic came back with the car needing a new fuel system as magnetic swarf was found.  I have sent big motoring world a letter stating all the issues and that under the consumer rights act 2015 I have asked for a replacement vehicle. all reports from Stephen James BMW have been sent over to big motoring world. Big motoring world have come back and said they will respond to my complaint within 14 days for the date of my complaint letter. I am not feeling confident on the response from them, what are my next steps?   Thanks in advance. 
    • That is really good is that a mistake last off "driver doesn't have a licence" I assume that should be keeper? The Court requested me to send the Court and applicant proof of my sons disability from their GP this clearly shows he has Severe Mental Impairement, he is also illiterate.  I naively assumed once the applicant received this that they would drop the claim.  It offends me that Bank has asked the Judge to throw the case out at the preliminary hearing and to make us pay up.
    • Hi, we are looking to get some opinions on weather or not to bother fighting this PCN. This comes from a very big retail park parking where there are restaurants, hotel, amongst other businesses. The parking is free but I suppose there must be a time limit on it that I am not aware of. We were in the area for around 4 hours. Makes us wonder how they deal with people staying in the hotel as the ANPR is on what appears to be a publicly maintained street (where london buses run) which leads to the different parking areas including the hotel.  1 Date of the infringement 26/05/2024 2 Date on the NTK  31/05/2024 3 Date received 07/06/2024 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  YES 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Entry and exit photos however, based on the photographs we are almost sure the photos are taken on public street. This is the location I believe photos are taken from.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/eii8zSmFFhVZDRpbA 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A 7 Who is the parking company? UKPA. UK Parking Administration LTD 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] The Colonnades, Croydon, CR0 4RQ For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. British Parking Association (BPA) Thanks in advance for any assistance.  UKPA PCN The Collonades-redacted.pdf
    • Thank you for posting their WS. If we start with the actual WS made by the director one would have doubts that they had even read PoFA let alone understood it. Point 10  we only have the word of the director that the contract has been extended. I should have had the corroboration of the Client. Point 12 The Judge HHJ Simkiss was not the usual Judge on motoring cases and his decisions on the necessity of contracts did not align with PoFA. In Schedule 4 [1[ it is quite clearly spelt out- “relevant contract” means a contract (including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land) between the driver and a person who is—(a)the owner or occupier of the land; or (b authorised, under or  by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land; And the laughable piece of paper from the land owners cannot be described as a contract. I respectfully ask that the case be dismissed as there is no contract. WE do not even know what the parking regulations are which is really basic. It is respectfully asked that without a valid contract the case cannot continue. One would imagine that were there a valid contract it would have been produced.  So the contract that Bank has with the motorist must come from the landowner. Bank on their own cannot impose their own contract. How could a director of a parking company sign a Statement of Truth which included Point 11. Point 14. There is no offer of a contract at the entrance to the car park. Doubtful if it is even an offer to treat. The entrance sign sign does not comply with the IPC Code of Conduct nor is there any indication that ANPR cameras are in force. A major fault and breach of GDPR. Despite the lack of being offered a contract at the entrance [and how anyone could see what was offered by way of a contract in the car park is impossible owing to none of the signs in the WS being at all legible] payment was made for the car to park. A young person in the car made the payment. But before they did that, they helped an elderly lady to make her payment as she was having difficulty. After arranging payment for the lady the young lad made his payment right behind. Unfortunately he entered the old lady's number again rather than paying .for the car he was in. This can be confirmed by looking at the Allow List print out on page 25. The defendant's car arrived at 12.49 and at 12.51 and 12.52  there are two payments for the same vrm. This was also remarked on by the IPC adjudicator when the PCN was appealed.  So it is quite disgraceful that Bank have continued to pursue the Defendant knowing that it was a question of  entering the wrong vrm.  Point 21 The Defendant is not obliged to name the driver, they are only invited to do so under S9[2][e]. Also it is unreasonable to assume that the keeper is the driver. The Courts do not do that for good reason. The keeper in this case does not have a driving licence. Point 22. The Defendant DID make a further appeal which though it was also turned down their reply was very telling and should have led to the charge being dropped were the company not greedy and willing to pursue the Defendant regardless of the evidence they had in their own hands. Point 23 [111] it's a bit rich asking the Defendant to act justly and at proportionate cost while acting completely unjustly themselves and then adding an unlawful 70% on to the invoice. This  is despite PoFA S4[5] (5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 9[2][d].  Point 23 [1v] the Director can deny all he wants but the PCN does not comply with PoFA. S9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN only quotes the ANPR arrival and departure times which obviously includes a fair amount of driving between the two cameras. Plus the driver and passengers are a mixture of disabled and aged persons who require more time than just a young fit single driver to exit the car and later re enter. So the ANPR times cannot be the same as the required parking period as stipulated in the ACT. Moreover in S9[2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; You will note that in the PCN the words in parentheses are not included but at the start of Section 9 the word "must" is included. As there are two faults in the PCN it follows that Bank cannot pursue the keeper . And as the driver does not have a driving licence their case must fail on that alone. And that is not even taking into consideration that the payment was made. Point 23 [v] your company is wrong a payment was made. very difficult to prove a cash payment two weeks later when the PCN arrives. However the evidence was in your print out for anyone to see had they actually done due diligence prior to writing to the DVLA. Indeed as the Defendant had paid there was no reasonable cause to have applied for the keeper details. Point 24 the Defendant did not breach the contract. The PCN claimed the Defendant failed to make a payment when they had made a payment.   I haven't finished yet but that is something to start with
    • You don't appeal to anyone. You haven't' received a demand from a statutory body like the council, the police or the courts. It's just a dodgy cowboy company trying it on. You simply don't pay.  In the vast majority of these cases the company deforest the Amazon with threats about how they are going to divert a drone from Ukraine and make it land on your home - but in the end they do nothing.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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CEL ANPR PCN - POPLA unsuccessful -PAPLOC - Now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW - paid have receipt too! ***Claim Discontinued***


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Annaboo your WS was not as strong as it could have been. I have put in what you should also have said. You didn't complain enough about their poor payment facilities which  made it virtually impossible to pay within the allotted time but as you paid that should be enough with most Judges. Sadly not with them all.

Hopefully their WS will give you the opportunity to add an addendum to your first WS .

The signage can be very important-it should comply with PoFA and the BPA Code of Practice. They don't. The entrance sign does not list the T&Cs so is only an offer to treat it does not offer a contract. There is nothing on the sign that mentions the car park is BPA approved. That is a breach of their Code of Practice.

Once inside the car park motorists are faced with three different companies signage-none of them are by CEL and none of them are members of BPA or IPC. Further one of the companies ceased trading back in 2019. I cannot see that CEL can lawfully issue PCNs in this car park when the Terms and Conditions of the companies who have their signage in the car park appear to need vetting or approval from the DVLA, BPA or the IPC. Again none of the signs are marked with the BPA approval sign just like the entrance sign.

This is the BPA Code of Conduct relating to signage 

"19.7 You should display the BPA’s AOS logos at all sites. This will help the public to see that you are a legitimate operator, and show that the site is run properly"

The inference here is that there is no legitimate operator and the site is run improperly.  Also CEL is thus failing to comply with its Code of Conduct and as such should not be able to gain data from the DVLA. And should not have been given your information.

As an aside Annaboo, ABC Facilities Management ltd was dissolved on 11th April 2023. Might be an idea to see if their signs are still present in the car park. [The fact that it was dissolved this year doesn't affect your case as that happened back in 2021 but if their signage is still there now I am sure CEL will not want to go to Court.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you for this Lookingforinfo, I will wait for their WS. If I need to submit a revised WS, I will add those points that you have listed. Thank you so much for this! 
 

I feel they have given up already. Such a shame. 
 

Will wait until Mid July to find out if the case is struck out or not. 
 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all, to keep this post up to date. 

I have still not received the claimant's WS. 

I have now emailed the county court to see if the case is struck out or not. 

I have also called the court but they are not answering and I have been put on hold for over 20 minutes so I hang up. 

Will wait for the court to reply to confirm what is happening. 

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Yes,. you need to find out if they have paid the hearing fee.

It's a pain but you'll have to keep on trying to contact the court.

We could do with some help from you.

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I have gotten through to the Call Centre of the county court and spoke to the lady on the phone after waiting for 45mins. She said the case has been 'discontinued'. I asked if this means it is a struck out, she said no not necessarily. I will need to email my county court or call 24 hours before the hearing. 

She is not able to see any more information on her system. I will need to call 24 hours before and then they can chase for me. 

I guess I'll just have to wait for my County Court to reply to my email. 

Edited by Annabooo
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This is very, very promising.

The fleecers don't write a WS.  On the phone the court talk about discontinuance.  Your case is exactly the type that the charlatans often wet their pants about at the last minute.  It all adds up.

But no chickens should be counted!

What is the date of your hearing?

We could do with some help from you.

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Yes I knew I had a strong case. 

They were trying to scare me into paying and went as far as getting the court to write to me. 

I was prepared to ignore and turn up in court. 

Going through this whole process, I just cannot believe how rubbish this system is. 

Let's see what happens! 

My court date is on Monday 14th August. If I am to call 24 hours before, it will need to be on a Sunday! 

 

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i think - to be discontinued the claimant would have needed to have sent the court & you an N279 

if it had been struck out by the judge because they didnt file a WS it would state that and the court would write

looks like you've won.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Let me wait until I get the court to confirm. 

They fought me all this way just to pull out last minute.

I might give them a call to see what is going on. - Is this a good idea? 

 

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Yes, it's highly likely a letter from the court or from the fleecers will drop through your letter box shortly.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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courts do not inform you if the claimant sent a N279

the claimant should send you a copy.

IMHO no harm in ringing them.

cant hurt you dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Could that be poking the hornets nest and eliciting an N279 DX?

Or, is it too late for them now?

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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if the fees are not paid then the court strike the claim, a court cant disc a claim, only the claimant can.

the court will write if they strike it out. the claimant writes if the disc.

dx

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I would suggest waiting till the end of the month to see if a welcome letter pops through your letter box, which is highly likely.

If nothing appears, please come back here on 1 August.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Hello All, 

I have been waiting patiently for the N279 from CEL and I still have not received anything. I do not believe they will be sending anything now. They are not complying with the court. 

What I can do now is call the court 24 hours before to follow up. 

I also went back to the car park to check the signs and the pay machine and the name has completely changed. Atlantis FM Ltd is the name on the signs and it is all over the car park now. Same information/colour, only the name has changed. Their pay machine is from Flowbird and they have added card payment. 

 

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This must be extremely annoying.  Sadly I don't think there's any alternative than to keep pushing for an answer.  You can't be left with uncertainty till the day before the hearing!

1.  Call the court - again - and ask what the status of the claim is.  If they say it's been discontinued ask them to e-mail you so you have it in writing.

2.  E-mail the court - again - and ask them the status of the claim.

3.  Phone DCBL and ask them if they are proceeding with the claim.  If they say it has been discontinued then say you have had nothing in writing and will they e-mail you the Notice of Discontinuance.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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I have just sent the court another email.

The court still haven't replied back to me from 2 weeks ago. I can call the court again but the lady on the phone did say that I will need to email the court for an update because all she can see on her system is the case has been 'discontinued' and advice me to call up 24 hours before and then she will have more information and can chase for me. 

As for DCBL, I have blocked their email! Shall I still call them? 

I don't want to waste too much time stressing over this. 

I can still turn up at the court on the day. 

I am just shocked at this whole process. DCBL not complying with the court order, the court not responding to me. It is frustrating but I am not going to stress over it. 

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Point taken about the court.

Yes, phone DCBL.  They might confirm discontinuance and then e-mail confirmation.

Or they may be a waste of time.  But it can't harm you.

Don't worry about the use of e-mail, if the case is over it won't matter if they e-mail you.

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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