Boris Johnson, former Prime Minister

[honeybee13]

Yes, remain lost. So, TOR, what do you think you have gained from Brexit?

[theoldrouge]

Early release from the initial covid lockdown due to the speedy vaccine rollout whilst EU dithered 

The ability to quickly send weapons to Ukraine whist Germany offered 5000 helmets and Napoleon did his Neville Chamberlain impersonation 

Close relative now having bought 3 bed house due to his employer now having to pay wages that recognise his skills ,as they are now being unable to rely on cheap EU labour 

Of course lots more needs to be done 

Get fracking ASAP, ignore the Swampies and beard and sandal brigade and use agricultural land for food production not for unsightly solar farms and stop turning the countryside into a giant theme park 

 

[tobyjugg2]

19 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Early release from the initial covid lockdown due to the speedy vaccine rollout whilst EU dithered 

 

Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit

 

19 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

The ability to quickly send weapons to Ukraine

 

Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit, and Sweden sent more and faster, as did the USA among others - they just didn't bull themselves up doing it like Johnson the liar did

 

19 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Close relative now having bought 3 bed house due to his employer now having to pay wages that recognise his skills ,as they are now being unable to rely on cheap EU labour 

 

Thats good money for a cabbage picker - or horse manure spreader

Wheres the details for some sort of credibility?

 

 

19 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Of course lots more needs to be done 

Get fracking ASAP, ignore the Swampies and beard and sandal brigade and use agricultural land for food production not for unsightly solar farms

 

and stop turning the countryside into a giant theme park 

 

 

Thats more like a Brexiter

 

Now how about some real benefits .. other than people like water companies being allowed to doodoo on everyone for profits that will go abroad

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[Ethel Street]

1 hour ago, theoldrouge said:

Early release from the initial covid lockdown due to the speedy vaccine rollout whilst EU dithered 

The ability to quickly send weapons to Ukraine 

 

Erm, neither were controlled by the EU and we could have done exactly the same as we did if we'd remained in the EU.

 

So neither are 'Brexit benefits'.

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

So @theoldrougeas you are struggling to find any legitimate benefits to anyone .. I'll help

 

So, given that rampant Brexhiters like Smugg and deadwood moved chunks of their own businesses to the EU or abroad (dyson, JCB), despite railing on (lying) about how great Brexhit would be for UK 'business'

- Apart from that they wanted hard Brexhit with a bonfire of regs and protections so they could profit from modern slavery working conditions and poisoning Englands once green and pleasant land for profit (as you also promote) while they live in protected estates or abroad

 

So what 'businesses' have actually benefited from leaving the EU - and I'm not talking about a few lorry drivers, I'm talking BIGtime benefited (bigger than Energy company profiteering)?

 

Clue: What were the EU implementing. and have been rapidly implementing since the UK and its resistance to it left?

Edited August 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Businesses in N Ireland are pretty happy with how it's going.

[tobyjugg2]

LOL

Quite true HB - but the populist tories are trying to end that aren't they

 

.. and its arguable that situation is mostly maintaining benefits rather than losing like the rest of us ?

[honeybee13]

 

Hot off the press this morning.

 

Survey: Two-thirds of businesses have now adapted to NI Protocol

WWW.IRISHNEWS.COM

---

TWO-in-three businesses have now adapted to the new trading arrangements under the Northern Ireland Protocol, a new survey suggests.

 

[tobyjugg2]

The other third, Rees-mogg/Redwood investments and suchlike, have moved to the EU ... ?

 

... 1% (eg DUP enterprises) is jumping up and down shouting - stop these godless heathens making money and bring them back under the control of our God given English masters or rot in hellfire and damnation for eternity

Edited August 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

14 hours ago, Ethel Street said:

 

Erm, neither were controlled by the EU and we could have done exactly the same as we did if we'd remained in the EU.

 

So neither are 'Brexit benefits'.

 

 

Absolute nonsense from obviously another obsessive remainer

Do you not think that we would have had to conform with everything the EU ordered 

The main at risk groups were vaccinated 

before the EU got its act together 

As for weapons as I said ,we acted whilst the Germans were offering helmets and Napoleon was doing his Neville Chamberlain impersonation 

 

[tobyjugg2]

8 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Do you not think that we would have had to conform with everything the EU ordered

 

LOL - no, we didn't

and we were a significant part of both making the rules and blocking any we didn't like, as you would see if you put some effort into answering my question rather than just spouting nonsense.

 

 

[theoldrouge]

2 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

So @theoldrougeas you are struggling to find any legitimate benefits to anyone .. I'll help

 

So, given that rampant Brexhiters like Smugg and deadwood moved chunks of their own businesses to the EU or abroad (dyson, JCB), despite railing on (lying) about how great Brexhit would be for UK 'business'

- Apart from that they wanted hard Brexhit with a bonfire of regs and protections so they could profit from modern slavery working conditions and poisoning Englands once green and pleasant land for profit (as you also promote) while they live in protected estates or abroad

 

So what 'businesses' have actually benefited from leaving the EU - and I'm not talking about a few lorry drivers, I'm talking BIGtime benefited (bigger than Energy company profiteering)?

 

Clue: What were the EU implementing. and have been rapidly implementing since the UK and its resistance to it left?

Actually the relative works in a profession that without him and others like him your life would grind to a halt

I am pleased to say his life has improved enormously as a direct consequence of Brexit

As for polluting the countryside do you not think that solar panels spread far and wide over prime agricultural land, that will one day end up in landfill, already achieve that

[Ethel Street]

29 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Absolute nonsense from obviously another obsessive remainer

Do you not think that we would have had to conform with everything the EU ordered 

The main at risk groups were vaccinated 

before the EU got its act together 

As for weapons as I said ,we acted whilst the Germans were offering helmets and Napoleon was doing his Neville Chamberlain impersonation 

 

 

Not nonsense and pointing out that you are wrong about how the EU works in relation to public health and military matters doesn't make anyone either obsessive or a remainer. They are 'national competencies' and the EU does not control them.  

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, theoldrouge said:

Actually the relative works in a profession that without him and others like him your life would grind to a halt

I am pleased to say his life has improved enormously as a direct consequence of Brexit

 

Yep, like I said, lorry drivers. valuable and essential folk in the UK and around the world have done well out of the Brexit backlash.

 

 

1 hour ago, theoldrouge said:

As for polluting the countryside do you not think that solar panels spread far and wide over prime agricultural land, that will one day end up in landfill, already achieve that

 

prime agricultural land!  - horse- hogwash - maybe a couple where the populist Tory landowner got some special deal.

Spouting garbage just shows that Brexhiters seem to run on soundbites, without any capacity or will to validate the rubbish they hoover up and regurgitate.

 

In any case - you not heard about the crops rotting in the fields through

1. No migrant workers to pick them

2. Climate change devastating whats there.

3. Reduced more expensive export markets due to Johnson & cos Brexhit

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Sunak boasts of taking money from ‘deprived urban areas’ - follow live

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

---

Sunak made comments to grassroots Tories in Tunbridge Wells, Kent, last month

 

"In the video, Mr Sunak told Tory supporters: "I managed to start changing the funding formulas, to make sure areas like this (wealthy Tory shire) are getting the funding they deserve because we inherited a bunch of formulas from Labour that shoved all the funding into deprived urban areas and that needed to be undone.

"I started the work of undoing that.""

"boasting about diverting funding away from “deprived urban areas” towards more prosperous areas that “deserve” them."

[theoldrouge]

4 hours ago, Ethel Street said:

 

Not nonsense and pointing out that you are wrong about how the EU works in relation to public health and military matters doesn't make anyone either obsessive or a remainer. They are 'national competencies' and the EU does not control them.  

Oh really “France 24 “wrong as well then about The European Health Union 

 

Before Covid-19, the EU left health policy to national governments. However, Brussels took charge of vaccine procurement in the summer of 2020, as part of what Von der Leyen called a “European Health Union” in her September “State of the Union” address.

Member states were free to opt out of this supranational scheme, but none did so. Brexit made it “easy” for the UK to go its own way on vaccines, Bouzou observed.

 

[honeybee13]

Could we see what France24 said please, TOR, or did you quote it above?

 

But if states could opt out of the vaccine programme, surely the UK would have been able to as well?

 

 

[theoldrouge]

Corrected

 

 

“Yep, like I said, lorry drivers. valuable and essential folk in the UK and around the world have done well out of Brexit “

[theoldrouge]

Pleasure HB

 

https://amp.france24.com/en/europe/20210206-how-the-eu-s-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-became-an-advert-for-brexit

[honeybee13]

17 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Corrected

 

 

“Yep, like I said, lorry drivers. valuable and essential folk in the UK and around the world have done well out of Brexit “

 

If they're working in the UK, yes. I don't think the ones doing international trips are all that happy.

[tobyjugg2]

35 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Oh really “France 24 “wrong as well then about The European Health Union 

 

Before Covid-19, the EU left health policy to national governments. However, Brussels took charge of vaccine procurement in the summer of 2020, as part of what Von der Leyen called a “European Health Union” in her September “State of the Union” address.

35 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Member states were free to opt out of this supranational scheme, but none did so.

 

 

So what part of that are you choosing to misunderstand

- Seems pretty easy and straightforward

 

.. and how did the populists Indian 'partners' respond when they were authorised to manufacture the vaccine in India

- kept them didn't they?

..mind you that was after Johnson tried to do it to the EU - what comes around eh?

Edited August 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

28 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Pleasure HB

 

https://amp.france24.com/en/europe/20210206-how-the-eu-s-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-became-an-advert-for-brexit

 

Thank you. But there came a time about a year ago when the UK was overtaken, so it's swings and roundabouts.

 

Six EU states overtake UK Covid vaccination rates as Britain’s rollout slows | Coronavirus | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

Malta, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland overtake UK in fully jabbed percentages

 

[Ethel Street]

1 hour ago, theoldrouge said:

Oh really “France 24 “wrong as well then about The European Health Union 

 

Before Covid-19, the EU left health policy to national governments. However, Brussels took charge of vaccine procurement in the summer of 2020, as part of what Von der Leyen called a “European Health Union” in her September “State of the Union” address.

Member states were free to opt out of this supranational scheme, but none did so. Brexit made it “easy” for the UK to go its own way on vaccines, Bouzou observed.

 

 

Thank you for confirming exactly what I said. If we'd still been in the EU we could, and no doubt would, have done exactly the same as we did do and the EU couldn't have stopped us or made us do anything different.

 

And as you also confirm no EU state was required to join the the voluntary support scheme the EU put together. Of course few of them opted out. Very few EU countries have their own global pharmaceutical industry or vaccine research facilities. Malta or Cyprus or Bulgaria (for example) were hardly likely to start developing their own vaccine research and pharmaceutical manufacturing capacity in the middle of a pandemic were they? So of course they opted to go with an an EU led purchasing programme.

 

If you don't mind me saying so you seem to be rather missing the point. No-one disputes that the UK had a successful vaccine rollout programme. The point is that it would have had just as successful a programme if we were still in the EU. Brexit is irrelevant to the success of the rollout.

 

And anyway the EU programme was about procurement, buying the vaccines, not about rollout. Every EU country, even when it stayed in the procurement programme, made its own decisons about rollout.

 

Incidentally did you notice that the France24 article was published right back in the early days of the pandemic - 6th February 2021 - so isn't an assessment of the overall strengths and weaknesses of anyone's  vaccine roll out? Britain's early lead was soon eroded.

[tobyjugg2]

@theoldrouge

 

and just in case you still refuse to see even after the rational explanation of @Ethel Street, (or simply didn't bother reading all the 'words')

take the word of an apparent rabid, single minded, fracking supporting, EU hating brexhiters' soundbites:

 

22 hours ago, theoldrouge said:

 

Do you not think that we would have had to conform with everything the EU ordered 

 

 

16 hours ago, theoldrouge said:

 

Member states were free to opt out of this supranational scheme

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Someone has tweeted this video from Leave.eu in 2016.