OPS ANPR PCN Claimform - 17mins stay - VANTAGE POINT, BRIGHTON, BN1 4GW,

[FTMDave]

Thanks for filling in the sticky so quickly.

 

If you have time this evening before your holiday then acknowledge service.  This will "buy" you extra time to prepare your defence.  The other steps are not so urgent, they can certainly wait a week.  Post 7 here tells you what to do  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/451058-vcs-at-bristol-airport-two-parking-charges-in-two-minutes-charge-no-2/

 

I see you've worked out yourself that the deadline for the defence is 29  August so you have ages yet.

[FTMDave]

I've converted your DOCX file to PDF.  Your full name and other personal details were showing.

 

Best to keep the fleecers guessing.

[BMX bandit]

HI Dave, Thanks for the feedback, I'll look into acknowledging this evening, how does this buy extra time though?

Appreciate you converting the file, I've tried to ensure my info hasn't been on any attachments but have failed a number of times, I though this one was clean or was it the word file info details that gave it away ?

 

In terms of response by the 29th, I've looked at the various thread and think that the below is what is generally recommended to add in the court defence papers - am I correct, is this still the most up to date advice

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

[dx100uk]

well done.

 

are you away still on the 29th?

 

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

[BMX bandit]

I've been on the AOS site and just want to confirm

In the intention box do we agree that I need to tick the box which states I intend to defend all of the claim

What about the jurisdiction box- do I click to say I intend to contest the jurisdiction- this does not how as mandatory at this stage but while I'm logged in, I just wanted to confirm what the advice was

Thanks

[brassnecked]

Yes defend all

[dx100uk]

Read my last post!!

 

Dx

[BMX bandit]

Dx in reponse to your question- No I am not away on the 29th and will be back at home from the 15th

[BMX bandit]

Thanks for confirmation that I should 'defend all on the AOS 

BUT

Do I tick to say I will contest jurisdiction, having read up on it a bit, I think not

 

Coming back to the generic defence response should I add a point relating to their particular No 4 stating that I agreed to pay? where do they gleam this idea from or is it assumed somehow- is it standard wording used in these sorts of clams that should be contested at a later step or is it worth pointing out that its an incorrect statement and therefore possibly and inaccurate and false or inadmissible claim?

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, dx100uk said:

well done.

 

are you away still on the 29th?

 

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

 

Read my post!!^^^^ carefully!!

 

Dx

[FTMDave]

1 hour ago, BMX bandit said:

HI Dave, Thanks for the feedback, I'll look into acknowledging this evening, how does this buy extra time though?

Appreciate you converting the file, I've tried to ensure my info hasn't been on any attachments but have failed a number of times, I though this one was clean or was it the word file info details that gave it away ?

If you fill in AOS the deadline for the defence is extended.  You've done this.  Good.

 

As for DOCX, well when I downloaded your file the cursor on my computer was over it for a millisecond and that was enough for your real name to pop up!  I think it's a feature of DOCX that files automatically include the user's details.  Which is why we use PDF. 

[BMX bandit]

DX, Thanks for reiterating the need to read all of your post, I am know at home on the computer as opposed to the phone and can see the full response more easily.

 

I note you confirmed not to tick the jurisdiction box- Thankyou for that

 

I clicked through to the other thread you included and have the template for the CPR31 letter, does this need to be sent hard copy- I assume so as I do not have an e mail address for the lawyers. Can it wait until I am back from holiday? I assume the expectation is that they don't respond anyway and this builds further mitigation in the event it did ever get to a court hearing ?

[dx100uk]

you NEVER give or use email on any court claim with the claimant

next thing you'll know is they file fake important documents 1 min before a court deadline that you cannot counter.

[FTMDave]

13 minutes ago, BMX bandit said:

Can it wait until I am back from holiday? I assume the expectation is that they don't respond anyway and this builds further mitigation in the event it did ever get to a court hearing ?

Yes, it can wait till you get back, but make sure you do it then.

 

Spot on, they won't reply, but then you can show in court that they failed to show evidence of important legal permissions.

[BMX bandit]

FTM Dave, thanks for clarifying about the word quirk, Yes I think you are right that its linked to the author details- I'll watch that for the future

 

Does anyone have an opinion about the validity of point 4 of their claim

 

Understood regarding e mail disclosure to claimant by direct contact- very good point

However reviewing the AOS summary doc it looks like an auto fill function on my data entry had included my e mail address in the contact details as well as my telephone number

 

Is this a cause for concern or is it only the court that sees this information?

 

Thinking about it I think it has simply pulled this information from my Government gateway log in detail which requires e mail and tel number for communication and verification purposes 

[FTMDave]

Shouldn't be a problem, but if by some horror the fleecers do get their hands on your e-mail address you can always tell them not to use it.

 

Their point 4 is a standard lie all the fleecers put in all their claims, not really important.

 

Enjoy your holiday!

[BMX bandit]

OK Folks, I'm back from holiday and have prepared the CPR31 letter per the template and will be sending it today

So I have 2 weeks to file the defence, Is this fairly straightforward to complete and are the words below still considered the latest and most effective version of response, Thinking in particular of any case law since 2012 that could further support it and someone mentioned earlier that loading is not parking - is that worthy of a mention at this stage or do I keep the powder dry?

 

"The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all."

[FTMDave]

The defence is spot on.  Keep it all generic for the moment.

[BMX bandit]

Thanks for the confirmation FTM

I've been pre populations some of the screens on the MCOL site

Quick question- do I add my phone number and e mail on the details page or leave them off and rely on postal correspondence only ?

[dx100uk]

Safe to do so on mcol, but truth is they never use them. Everything is always by mail. The claimant cant see them.

 

just dont give the claimant email/sig/phone when/if you get a blank n180 from the court, watch mcol status carefully.

 

But youll see all this by reading a few pcn claimform threads.

 

Dx

[BMX bandit]

Dear All, Seems the lawyers have got hold of my e mail address somehow, possibly via the MCOL site - so watch out future users

I have received the below communication- How should I respond if at all and I assume it should be via post if I do 

 

"We write in response to your previous correspondence.

 

We acknowledge your request for documents however, please be advised the documents have previously been posted to you with our response to your Letter of Claim Response. The courts direct both parties to provide all evidence prior to a hearing.

 

You dispute the proof of planning permission under the Town and County Planning Act 2007, please direct us to the sections with which you refer to for us to be able to respond accordingly"

[honeybee13]

Have you received the documents they're talking about.

 

I wouldn't rush to respond, see what the guys think. I don't see why you should help them get their case together.

 

You'll need to write and tell them not to use email as it can cause problems if they send you important information at a minute to midnight just before the court date. Someone will help you with the  wording.

 

HB

[BMX bandit]

Thanks for your swift reply HB

 

The response may refer to and be a valid answer to the request for copies of paperwork in point 3 of the CPR 31 letter to them.

 

Yes copies of the original NTD, NTK etc. were provided in the LOC response. 

They have not responded to point 1 asking for their contract from OPS and the landowner to make claims on their behalf.

 

Also  regarding point 3 of my CPR31 letter, they are asking for clarification of the specific section in the 2007 act I refer to.

 

Firstly I have not explicitly disputed proof 'yet' BUT surely they are familiar or can read the act themselves to determine that they need planning permission for singing.

 

Is there a technicality here that it only applies to signs of a certain size or if displayed on public property?

 

Seems someone has taken an interest in this case, could they be tracking this thread and is it a change of tact for private parking companies to respond to these types of requests?

 

How often do cases that get to this stage go all the way to court?

is it a bully boy approach to scare me and hope I will settle?

I don't think there is any channel for this is there, even if I wanted to?

 

As a minimum they are on stony ground re the unicorn tax adder so I trust I am right in saying that it is they who are on the backfoot here?

[dx100uk]

no thats a pretty std reply and you can ignore it as they have no way of knowing you've read it and it's not gone to spam.

 

email wont be from mcol site no.

but could be from credit file or you've slipped up somewhere ?

 

stuff and all it helps them if they do read here anyway..

 

but you've made several mistakes all along in the last 18mts by uploading pers info and docx file numerous times that they could have grabbed one before we hid it.

 

you'll need to cut off email by WS stage.

 

scan up everything to one mass PDF

 

 

[BMX bandit]

Thanks dx so delete and ignore e mail - got it 

Your right I have bene hasty and missed references when uploading stuff - have not always been near a scanner so using my phone sometimes, but none of that included an e mail address

 

How do I cut off email ( do you mean block the sender or domain) and what does WS stand for?

 

When you say scan everything, you mean going forward or are you suggesting that I rescan the collection of NTK's etc that they sent with the response to letter of claim letter?