Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[seylectric]

Long thread i know but all the info you need is here.

[seylectric]

sorry, repeat posting by accident, wasn't being funny!

[Rich44]

If it means that much to you why dont you extract the information and make a template for everyone else to use.

 

Some personal effort is required in these things after all you or someone you know has been issued the PCN its in your own interests to research the problem so you understand the lingo so to speak.

 

Not having a go at you or anything but it is very easy to pick out the info in the thread and make up your own letter and once you do why not paste it onto the thread and it may be used as a template in future

[robert_harper_2000]

OK I'll try and give it ago... I was only asking as I thought if someone had already gone to the effort and tried it I could just use that! lol Cheers

[thewifeandI]

It's always worthwhile making the effort and posting it here for comments - that way it can be refined and improved to make it as effective as possible.

[robert_harper_2000]

This was in the early post

 

Dear Sir/Madam:

 

I write in reference to PCN: XXXXXXX issued to registration XXXXXXX

 

I ask you to strike this PCN out on the following grounds.

• I was in the Post Office collecting a parcel therefore I was loading my vehicle. Parcel number was XXXXXXXX

• The PCN had not been issued by the time I returned to the vehicle, the warden XXXXXX printed the ticket as I entered the car, after I had clearly told him I was the owner and had returned to the vehicle. The photographic evidence taken by the warden shows I was in the car at the time.

• I question the validity of the PCN as the PCN in question does not have the date of issue clearly marked as per the instructions of Section 66 (3) Road Traffic Act 1991 and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket. I refer you to Macarthur v. Bury Metropolitan Borough Council and Aldridge v. Westminster City Council.

• I question the validity of the PCN as the PCN in question does not state the time that the vehicle was first seen and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket. I refer you to Macarthur v. Bury Metropolitan Borough Council and Al’s bar and Restaurant Ltd v. London Borough of Wandsworth.

• I question the validity of the PCN as the PCN in question states “If you do not pay within 14 days the full charge must be paid within 28 days” contained in the information headed “Payment” on the back of the PCN. I find this confusing as it implies payment of the penalty is required from the driver of the vehicle whereas in fact liability rests with the owner of the vehicle. This conflicts with Section 66 (2) Road Traffic Act 1991 and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket.

 

Further to striking out the PCN, I ask that you take actions to provide further training for warden XXXXXX and make a note of his surly, ignorant attitude towards myself, a member of the public, when I remonstrated with him about his illegal issuing of the aforementioned PCN. Grunting and walking away is not what I construe as a very public facing attitude and I shall be writing to the Transport Secretary and my Member for Parliament pointing out the failings of a Westminster City Council member of staff in this incident.

 

------------

 

I'm not the one who wrote this the credit goes to the early post.

 

Cheers - Sending my letter recorded tomor. Wish me luck

[Movingon]

All that was true for the original writer; was all of that true for yourself? Have you read it all? Did your traffic warden "Walk away grunting" in the same way as the one in the original letter did?

 

I find it hard to believe that the circumstances were exactly the same as those of the original writer... you have a duty to report your circumstances accurately.

[robert_harper_2000]

no I managed to delete that bit but the ticket is invalid as this guys was in 2 of the points.

[deemacperth]

That was my letter guys and you do have to be careful, because the points I am questioning the validity of the ticket may be different to yours.

 

That particular letter is in regards to Westminster City Councils PCN's. They have recently reworded their PCN's to comply with the relevant statutes. The points of law that I was pointing out was that not only did it not have a "date of issue"

 

• The PCN in question does not have the date of issue clearly marked as per the instructions of Section 66 (3) Road Traffic Act 1991 and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket. I refer you to Macarthur v. Bury Metropolitan Borough Council and Aldridge v. Westminster City Council.

 

The PCN's did not have a time the vehilce was first seen (Important for loading/unloading disputes):

 

• The PCN in question does not state the time that the vehicle was first seen and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket. I refer you to Macarthur v. Bury Metropolitan Borough Council and Al’s bar and Restaurant Ltd v. London Borough of Wandsworth.

 

And they also had some ambiguity as to the wording on the back regarding the payment of the fine (Sorry, I'm not allowed to call it that according to his venerable holiness Mr Collins):

 

• The PCN in question states “If you do not pay within 14 days the full charge must be paid within 28 days” contained in the information headed “Payment” on the back of the PCN. I find this confusing as it implies payment of the penalty is required from the driver of the vehicle whereas in fact liability rests with the owner of the vehicle. This conflicts with Section 66 (2) Road Traffic Act 1991.

 

Now your local council should have 1 if not more of these issues, but just make sure you're arguing the correct thing as this will go to a NPAS (or PATAS) hearing where the adjudicator is a qualified lay representative and they will throw it out if they can.

[memoryman00]

Just out of couriosity, i have received a PCN in a Barnet council car park.

 

On it idon't have a "date of issue" but DATE OF NOTICE ???

 

Also, they didn't put the colour of my car down on the PCN ???

 

 

Before i go into specifics of why i got it, just wanted to see where i stood

 

Thanks

[Movingon]

Doesn't matter why you got it; if it doesn't conform to the DoT model ticket and contain a "Date of Issue" then it ain't lawful. End Of.

[memoryman00]

Thanks for the reply.

 

The words "DATE OF ISSUE" don't actually appear on the ticket , so i'm guessing that DATE OF NOTICE is meant to be the "DATE OF ISSUE".

 

Also, just realised i paid for a ticket about a month ago and realised that they've put down the wrong colour of my car.:o:o

 

I'm gonna look around at the posts and see what i can do, but i'm seething at the amount i've paid for tickets and not realised they could be shady.

 

 

WATCHOUT :mad:

I'M COMING FOR YA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Movingon]

Well, I wouldn't advocate parking against local regulations deliberately, for whatever reason... but if you happen to get a ticket it has to be as per the DoT model... and "Date of Notice" is not "Date of Issue". It's invalid.

[memoryman00]

Well, I wouldn't advocate parking against local regulations deliberately, for whatever reason... but if you happen to get a ticket it has to be as per the DoT model... and "Date of Notice" is not "Date of Issue". It's invalid.

 

 

What else can i say, other than thanks very much :)

 

I'm going to be informing the council straight away.

 

Just a few questions though, are there any templates around of letter's we can send ?

 

How do we go about claiming back PCN's that have been paid for? I noticed a couple that i've had that don't comply with the regulations ?

 

Also, where can we see a copy of the "DoT model" ?

 

Thanks, once again

[Movingon]

Regarding letters, read back through this thread and also look for one started by Seylectric; both contain letters you can modify.

 

Regarding claiming back already paid tickets I believe that this is more complex; however all the information you will need is in those two threads.

[memoryman00]

Regarding letters, read back through this thread and also look for one started by Seylectric; both contain letters you can modify.

 

Regarding claiming back already paid tickets I believe that this is more complex; however all the information you will need is in those two threads.

 

 

Thanks for that.

I've had a look at a few pages of it but there was quite a bit to take in so i'll spend some time over the weekend looking at others threads.

 

Thanks

[Barry031261]

Hi Guys,

 

I got a parking ticket last weekend after returning late to a 'free for 2 hours' car park.

 

The Notice is very basic and doesnt say 'Date of Issue', or anything like that anywhere on the ticket.

It simple states the date, from & to times.

 

Is this ticket legal do you think?

 

Baz

 

(Can someone tell me how to upload an image?)

[JonCris]

Hi Guys,

 

I got a parking ticket last weekend after returning late to a 'free for 2 hours' car park.

 

The Notice is very basic and doesnt say 'Date of Issue', or anything like that anywhere on the ticket.

It simple states the date, from & to times.

 

Is this ticket legal do you think?

 

Baz

 

(Can someone tell me how to upload an image?)

 

Was it a public or private car park (supermarket etc)

[Barry031261]

Hi,

 

This was a Public car park that services and out of town shopping complex.

 

Baz

[rogerebaker]

On the top of the ticket it should mention the council responsible. If its issued by or on behalf of the council then it has to comply with S66 RTA 1991. If it is issued by a private company in a private car park, and this sometimes will include shopping centre car parks, hospital car parks, etc etc then its a completely different set of rules.

 

1st step. have a look for the mention of the council

[Barry031261]

No, this isn't a Council ticket. It is a private company called Euro Car Parks.

 

Any idea where I can find info on the rules that apply here?

 

Baz

[rogerebaker]

Post 67 and related

 

I have been corrresponding with Elmbridge Council for 2 months and they are treating me like a complete idiot. Their PCN dosnt comply with the RTA in about 5 areas. I received a notice to owner which is even worse. I am looking forward to an appearance at the appeal ajudicators although I suspect at some stage they are going to have to listen and cancel it.

 

A ticket I received from Woking council is just the same. The Notice to owner and the charge certificate are also invalid.

 

Neil herons website is well worth a read if your serious about challanging the tickets

 

useful links

 

Als bar V Wandsworth council ( Date of issue argument and wording of ticket)

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/Als.pdf

 

Neil herons site

Neil Herron

 

NPAS circular informing all councils in April 2005 about the date of issue argument and advising them to change their tickets

http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/about/circulars/Wording%20of%20PCN.pdf

 

 

This is a bit like bank charges you cant lose !!!

[seylectric]

Councils always take the p*ss, they think you will back down and pay - and why not? Most people do. I getting that fed up of legitamate appeal after legitamate appeal turned down, all mine go in the bin from now on. After all, that's the place for rubbish and there's little they can do if you don't let the bailiffs in.

[robert_harper_2000]

so if the councils ignore letters about pcns ( i'm talking about previous ones, I used DPA to get 3 years worth - didn't have amounts paid but at least £900) I should issue court?

 

usual stuff about Date of issue

[j.wandless]

Hi

I received a hand written parking ticket which is headed as 'Northumbria Police - Fixed Penalty Notice(Non-endorsable offence)'.

Section 1 has my registration details, the street and town, the times 11.25 to 11.45 and 'on' which has been filled with the date 070706. The next section is the 'offence' with the code M1 - The vehicle was waiting in a restricted area. The officers signature, number and sector/section have been completed.

Nowhere in this section are the terms ' date issued' or 'contravention'.

 

Am I able to appeal against this ticket.