Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

On 29/11/2022 at 09:13, theoldrouge said:

Cancer specialist says Covid boosters are harming his patients 
 

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/cancer-specialist-says-covid-boosters-are-harming-his-patients/

 

 

 

On 29/11/2022 at 10:38, tobyjugg2 said:

So as usual - no peer reviewed assessment or even proper study - just one persons possibly misrepresented opinion or misrepresenting science?

 

 

This the latest guy your culture wars site is misrepresenting isn't it?

Just a sample of his stated and quoted opinions ... which are lacking in your link, and you should be utterly ashamed of yourself.

 

"Here, in an attempt to persuade the under-30s why they MUST have the jab, one of our foremost vaccine experts PROFESSOR ANGUS DALGLEISH gives his forensic analysis – and trenchant rebuttal – of some of the most common objections of young refuseniks.

 

YOUNG ONLY GET MILD SYMPTOMS

It's entirely false to assume that, because a bout of Covid seems mild or asymptomatic, it cannot leave lasting damage.
Young people, especially the under-30s, are very unlikely to die from the infection itself – but they are by no means exempt from what follows.
Figures show around one in ten people aged 18-49 go on to develop long-term symptoms after having the virus, regardless of how unwell they were initially.

Furthermore, around one in nine people aged 17-24 and one in six aged 25-34 still report symptoms 12 weeks after testing positive"

 

"The speed at which it has all been done is part of the marvel. Trials that would normally take many years have been accomplished in weeks, because such vast resources have been made available.

But no corners were cut. All the various vaccines – AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Moderna and the rest – had to undergo rigorous safety checks."

 

and I specifically selected and example from s selected from :

 

 

Vaccine expert ANGUS DALGLEISH dismantles beliefs that have seen rates stall among the 18-30s

 

 

What young people MUST be told: Vaccine expert ANGUS DALGLEISH dismantles beliefs among the 18-30s | Daily Mail Online

WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

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Here in a bid to persuade under-30s they must have the jab, PROFESSOR ANGUS DALGLEISH gives his forensic analysis - and trenchant rebuttal -...

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

So for months you have been peddling the tale that natural immunity was next to useless 
Now those pesky experts want to disagree 
Boosters 2 months 9 days 
Natural immunity 6 to 10 months 
 

Britain 'didn't need boosters', says top Covid tsar Sir John Bell as he claims top-up doses only prevent infections for up to 70 days
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11485347/Britain-didnt-need-boosters-says-Covid-tsar-Sir-John-Bell.html
 

and finally how about a shred of sympathy for the vaccine victims 
 

Mum in coma 'for days' after 'falling ill following covid jab'

"I have been through hell and back through no fault of my own and now I feel like I am left on the shelf."
 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1703636/Covid-jab-vaccine-coma-Guillain-Barr-syndrome-Staffordshire
 

as for your “tiny number of adverse reactions “
from the AZ vaccine alone
AZ states that there have been 246,638 reports of suspected adverse drug reactions to the jab, in the UK.

[tobyjugg2]

Absolute miss-presented rubbish from the anti-vaxer again

 

First, I have NEVER peddled that 'natural immunity' was next to useless - thats not just a lie, given what vaccination actually does in priming a persons natural immune system, including weakened immune systems - its a simply stupid lie.

 

I also note you dont link anything with your claim of 'xxx suspected adverse reactions - no surprise there as:

- they largely report anything under the 'suspected adverse reactions', and the vast majority of which are nothing of the sort

 

... and then your two unsupported 'instances compared to the detailed studies I linked proving otherwise'

 

So @theoldrouge

when did these feeling of paranoia and persecution start?

and how long did it take for them to grow to such an extent that you scour the internet for the rare and obscure items; no matter how fascile; that can be twisted to apparently support your delusions.,

... Or even just make them up?

 

Why do you deny the facts, even when actually declared by someone (Angus Dalgleish) you linked yourself in support of your delusional thinking?

 

Tell me, when you think of your mother, do these thoughts grow stronger or weaker?

 

 

 

Mortality in patients with cancer and coronavirus disease 2019: A systematic review and pooled analysis of 52 studies - PubMed

PUBMED.NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV

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Patients with cancer who develop COVID-19 have high probability of mortality. Appropriate and aggressive preventive measures must be...

 

Coronavirus (covid) and cancer

WWW.MACMILLAN.ORG.UK

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We understand that people with cancer are worried about coronavirus. Here is the latest guidance.

 

 

 

Conclusions: Patients with cancer who develop COVID-19 have high probability of mortality. Appropriate and aggressive preventive measures must be taken to reduce the risk of COVID-19 in patients with cancer and to optimally manage those who do contract the infection.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Careful consideration needed before posting such things, but they are needed to counter @theoldrougeanti-vax misinformation and claiming a single GBS event was the vaccine - when the vaccine actually prevents many such

 

 

Mum's vaccine message after giving birth in coma with Covid when she hadn't had jab - Nottinghamshire Live

WWW.NOTTINGHAMPOST.COM

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She feared effects of the jab on pregnant women were not yet known

 

 

COVID-19-associated Guillain-Barré syndrome: The early pandemic experience - PubMed

PUBMED.NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV

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Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) is an inflammatory polyradiculoneuropathy associated with numerous viral infections. Recently, there have been...

 

Covid in pregnancy linked to birth-related complications

WWW.BBC.COM

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Researchers find vaccination in pregnancy does not increase the risk of complications, but Covid-19 does.

 

Pregnant mum with Covid goes into 4-month coma and spends entire YEAR in hospital - Mirror Online

WWW.MIRROR.CO.UK

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Nicoleta Tuna, who was admitted to hospital in October 2021 before being placed in a coma for four months, has finally been able to go home to her...

 

Covid coma pregnancy: Wolverhampton mum 'devastated' to lose son

WWW.BBC.COM

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The mum-to-be from Wolverhampton said she was so unwell she did not know her baby was stillborn.

 

Guillain-Barré syndrome in pregnancy - PubMed

PUBMED.NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV

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Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) complicating pregnancy is a rare event. Reports before the mid-1980s suggested that GBS in pregnancy carries a...

 

 

 

 

[theoldrouge]

   On 24/08/2022 at 07:08,  unclebulgaria67 said: 

For most people (fit and healthy under say 60), it does appear that getting Covid and then having natural immunity is probably better than vaccination ?

To which @tobyjugg2replied
 

 

“No real evidence for that whatsoever - quite the opposite”
 

———————————————————————

 

“First, I have NEVER peddled that 'natural immunity' was next to useless - thats not just a lie, given what vaccination actually does in priming a persons natural immune system, including weakened immune systems - its a simply stupid lie.”
——————————————————————-

oh really that’s not what the above says, and that’s without looking too hard 

[tobyjugg2]

On 06/01/2022 at 22:25, tobyjugg2 said:

 

I apologise unreservedly given your statement

Seems clear I misunderstood a support of vaccination causing problems (anti-vax)

 

I now unreservedly withdraw that apology

[theoldrouge]

Another ridiculous comment as you have no idea of my vaccine status
I am not anti vax, just anti this experimental substance 

[tobyjugg2]

6 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

 

   On 24/08/2022 at 07:08,  unclebulgaria67 said: 

For most people (fit and healthy under say 60), it does appear that getting Covid and then having natural immunity is probably better than vaccination ?

To which @tobyjugg2replied
 

 

“No real evidence for that whatsoever - quite the opposite”
 

———————————————————————

 

“First, I have NEVER peddled that 'natural immunity' was next to useless - thats not just a lie, given what vaccination actually does in priming a persons natural immune system, including weakened immune systems - its a simply stupid lie.”
——————————————————————-

oh really that’s not what the above says, and that’s without looking too hard 

 

 

Thats a misinterpretation - as usual

 

My statement was that getting Covid PLUS a vaccination was better than just getting covid and 'natural immunity'

- as supported in many many studies which found that vaccination added to natural/prior infection immunity and was is most cases 'better'

and NOT that 'natural infection/natural resistance was useless

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

How Immunity Generated from COVID-19 Vaccines Differs from an

WWW.NIH.GOV

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A key issue as we move closer to ending the pandemic is determining more precisely how long people exposed to SARS-CoV-2, the COVID-19 virus...

 

A third difference is that natural infection only exposes the body to the virus in the respiratory tract (unless the illness is very severe), while the vaccine is delivered to muscle, where the immune system may have an even better chance of seeing it and responding vigorously.

 

there is a wide range in antibody titers in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2, completion of a primary vaccine series, especially with mRNA vaccines, typically leads to a more consistent and higher-titer initial antibody response.

 

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

WWW.CDC.GOV

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CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Comes down to personal choice.

 

Thought all vaccines were experimental even after they were approved by regulators ?

[tobyjugg2]

Please clarify what you mean by that unc

That vaccination is a personal choice, I agree with

But inflicting the risks associated with that choice on others is a far more complex issue. 

 

example with covid out of the picture:

Should a person with rampant syphilis be allowed to practice wrestling with an unknowing opponent?

- It is of course their personal choice if they don't take antibiotics, but is it their personal choice to risk infecting others?

 

 

[honeybee13]

From the Sunday Times. How much should Matt Hancock be blamed for Covid deaths?

 

archive.ph

ARCHIVE.PH

 

[unclebulgaria67]

What I meant by all vaccines are experimental, is that the trials before approval can only check for safety risk and effectiveness within the representative testing trial group. Then once a vaccine is approved and jabs start going into people's arms, the real experiment begins.

 

A small percentage may have side effects and reports of these are closely monitored. The actual effectiveness of the vaccine is measured. Do people still get Covid? And if so, what symptoms do they have and level of severity?  What strains of Covid are people getting? Did the vaccine offer protection?   There will be a long list of questions.

 

It can take a very long time, before any vaccine has full sign off in regard the level of effectiveness. All of the studies so far will be initial findings, but many of these will go on for years to come. Covid is still mutating and therefore the research is ongoing.

[tobyjugg2]

"Comes down to personal choice. "

 

@unclebulgaria67

Please clarify what you mean by that unc

That vaccination is a personal choice, I agree with

But inflicting the risks associated with that choice on others is a far more complex issue. 

 

example with covid out of the picture:

Should a person with rampant syphilis be allowed to practice wrestling with an unknowing opponent?

- It is of course their personal choice if they don't take antibiotics, but is it their personal choice to risk infecting others?

[unclebulgaria67]

@tobyjugg2   Mostly personal choice is UK, but there are exceptions, where vaccinations are needed, and health conditions must be disclosed, or actions taken.

 

Yes, for some professions there are legal requirements, as the risk is too great. e.g., a Hospital surgeon is required to have some vaccinations from what i understand and they could not conduct their work without them.

 

Go on holiday to some countries and vaccinations are required to travel to them.

 

Chefs cannot work, if they know they have norovirus. 

[honeybee13]

There's a huge amount of news coming out about Covid management now. The Times says the government paid twice as much for Michelle Mone's masks as they could have through other companies. The exact same masks by the same manufacturer - half the price elsewhere.

 

Door Matt's account of how he saved the country from the virus has been described as 'delusional'. Jolyon Maugham has suggested it should go for a Booker prize for fiction and wonders if the personal diary quotes are made up for the book. They don't seem to tally with other accounts of what happened.

[theoldrouge]

To start the week on a lighthearted note 
perhaps you may enjoy this @honeybee13
 

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/12/03/matt-hancocks-pandemic-diary-a-parody/

[tobyjugg2]

On 27/01/2020 at 17:19, tobyjugg2 said:

Its a difficult question HB,

But from mers/sars coronavirus advice - contact with bodily fluids which are either directly (sneezes coughs)  or indirectly (surfaces soon after touched/sneezed on by infected person) then transferred to absorption areas like mouth, nasal or eyes.

 

So the Chinese type face masks and I can understand the eye goggles

- along with meticulous cleaning of the hands as we all regularly poke our mouths, noses and eyes without realising it.

 

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670115003679

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26597631/

 

 

 

the really septic must have stolen this threads start

- when others were claiming its a bit of a cold and be over in a couple of weeks

[tobyjugg2]

On 06/03/2020 at 12:20, tobyjugg2 said:

Health secretary Matt Hancock last night told a BBC Question Time audience the government were working with supermarkets to make sure food supplies were uninterrupted during the coronavirus outbreak.

But according to the BBC’s business editor Simon Jack, at least one supermarket executive is not convinced there has been any contact from the government.

Jack told BBC News: “They got touch saying they were slightly baffled by Matt Hancock’s remarks last night because they said they had heard nothing at all from government directly. And they had … rung around to others and they had the same story.”

He added: “In their words not mine, ‘Matt Hancock has totally made up that he has been working with supermarkets’.”

 

Tweeting about it after going on air, Jack said a supermarket source had got in touch to say Defra was “now in contact and trying to make it look like they are very actively engaged”.

 

- Adam Forrest

 

and who remembers all the claims by populist ministers and their shills that UK testing capacity was up to 160,000 180,000, 240,000, 500,000  a day

- when they were only actually testing around 60,000 a day and no-one could book tests

- or were offered tests hundreds of miles away, which weren't available when people rang to check (let alone that they shouldn't be traipsing across country - despite returnees from China doing so in Jan/Feb/March

Edited December 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

I remember the claims of huge numbers being tested but not about the claims being exaggerated. When was that please?

[tobyjugg2]

Some examples HB

 

On 06/10/2020 at 11:19, tobyjugg2 said:

 

 

Britain’s embarrassing Excel spreadsheet blunder

In the latest stumble for Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s beleaguered test-and-trace program, nearly 16,000 positive test results for the coronavirus between Sept. 25 and Oct. 2 were improperly recorded, because of a routine data-entry error — Excel files containing the names of people who tested positive were too large to transfer to a central computer system.

As well as producing an artificially low picture of the virus’s spread and delaying efforts to trace those at risk, the botched numbers resulted in yet more criticism for the Johnson government. More than 57,000 people have died from the virus in Britain, the highest number in Europe. The country is now facing a second wave of infections. - NYT     Looks like the 'upgrade of capacity' - literally in the spreadsheet  ..   - the spreadsheet updated presumably so Johnson and Handcock were only misleading rather than outright lying about 'capacity' went a bit wrong - leaving them as liars, deceivers and utterly incompetent .. rather than 'just' deceivers. Seems MS excel managed but they forgot to upgrade the trace a test system - apparently causing a mismatch which then wasn't trapped.

 

On 10/08/2020 at 09:32, tobyjugg2 said:

 

Worst disingenuous bit of false psuedo scientific garbage removed although expanded on below.
So broadly you are excusing NOT testing children, justified by Johnsons testing failures?

 

Thats surely one of the most effluent 'harse before the cart statements ever, even for you isn't it?

 

There is MORE than ample evidence that:

* Children do catch Covid and ARE infected, and can and do spread covid despite reduced symptoms

* Only the younger children 'tend' to have reduced severe symptoms - and only 'tends' NOT assured

* Children are still infected and despite many sneezing and coughing LESS/Less violently on average than older people - which is the basis for reduced transmission claims - transmission still occurs - especially with Covid being so high in the respiratory system. Reduced is NOT removed.

* What value reduced transmission once introduced into enclosed environments like schools and family homes?

 

So:

Given the UK governments claimed capacity of 300,000 tests per day even without the new 90 minute tests etc

and stats (when you can get them) showing barely 50,000ish  a day actually being 'effectively tested

 

... That leaves (based on Johnson and handcocks official claims) unused/ineffectively used 'spare' capacity of around a quarter of a million tests a day going spare

.. around 1.75 million tests a week not 'effectively used

... even without the new 90 minute tests

 

Enough 'spare' capacity already claimed to be there to test every school child once a month

even without the new tests or the necessary increasing of testing capacity ready for winter and this, let alone the next outbreak.

 

It is a simple fact that even with the above, Johnsons 'world beating' test and trace would be still failing short of the capacity needed even for the MINIMUM needed regular tests (eg care homes, schools, airports, frontline workers

but stopping spending the (£10B+ so far) money wasted on his serco etc private pals profits and population data grab - and spending it on competent testing and tracing could readily sort that..

- prevention is surely better than a cure and ALWAYS better than no cure

 

and anyway, What better use of tax payer money than educating, feeding and protecting children and protecting the families?

so seems utterly clear to me that NOT testing children and teachers and NOT quickly managing any potential outbreaks in schools IS beyond criminal.

 

Of course, Johnson and Handcock could be lying through their teeth about actual capacity, but lies aren't excuses for failures, let alone justifications to lie and fail more.

 

On 08/10/2020 at 11:46, tobyjugg2 said:

More on the excel foobar

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-missing-tests-microsoft-excel-matt-hancock-b859322.html

 

... Capacity '65,000 lines with 13 year old spreadsheet software

... when the private sector are getting 10B - about 100 times the yearly total budget of the UK's local infectious disease trace service ..

 

with 15,000 plus 'truncated ... aka around 80,000 positive tests is well beyond the systems 'capacity

... and its 6 months in before they realise that in the '300,000 a day 'capacity' system

... perhaps in line with the the falling availability of tests due to the supply chain issues for chemicals

 

 

 

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/search/?q=capacity&quick=1&type=forums_topic&item=419815

[theoldrouge]

It’s the story that just keeps on giving 
gradually eroding the COVID fairy tales 
eroding the great shut up 
 

 

Whistleblower US scientist who worked with Wuhan lab claims COVID WAS genetically engineered and leaked from the site - and says 'the US government is to blame' because it funded the research 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11498155/Whistleblower-worked-funded-Wuhan-lab-claims-Covid-genetically-engineered-leaked.html

[tobyjugg2]

Its not just brain shrinkage,

High number of reports that Covid infection causes erectile dysfunction and penis shrinkage

 

What We Know About COVID and Penis Size as Man Says It Shrunk His Genitals

WWW.NEWSWEEK.COM

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A man has claimed that he lost over an inch in size from his penis as some urologists link COVID to erectile dysfunction.

 

"Ashley G. Winter, a urologist at the Kaiser Permanente healthcare company, also spoke on the podcast to state that negative effects of COVID on the penis may be to do with something called endothelial dysfunction—a term referring to impaired functioning of the lining of blood vessels.

This relates to the penis and erections because erections are blood flow events."

 

 

A Urologist Explains Whether Covid Can Actually Shrink Your Penis

WWW.MENSHEALTH.COM

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Dr. Rena Malik breaks down the connection between Covid and penis size in a new video.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Michelle Mone has taken leave of absence from the Lords to 'clear her name' of unfair allegations. A Labour humble address is likely to force HMG to give papers on Medpro dealings to the Public Accounts Committee.

 

She's attended the  Lords five times in seven years, I think it is and last voted in late April, shortly before the raid by the NCA.

 

Potentially it seems she could lose her title or have to leave the Lords.

[honeybee13]

More on Mone from the Beeb.

 

What's this about? Her request could be rejected by the Lords authorities - but if it is approved she does not have to register any changes to her financial interests.

 

Conservative peer Michelle Mone to take leave of absence from Lords

WWW.BBC.COM

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Baroness Mone is accused of benefitting from a company she recommended for a Covid contract.