Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

Johnson must have either switched off the pingapp or simply not report it, putting everyone else he comes into contact with at risk to suit himself as usual

 

Anger as Boris Johnson does not isolate after staffer’s positive Covid test | Boris Johnson | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Exclusive: PM continued tour of Scotland despite at times being ‘side-by-side’ with official, source says

 

[tobyjugg2]

possibly why he refused to see Nicci - she'd cut his nuts off

- although he has been to see Kwasi Competent and many many others inc head of Scot Tories

 

.. waiting

[honeybee13]

The rules seem to be out of the window if you're part of government. Do as we say, not as we do.

 

Alok Sharma seems to have done his 30 flights this year without doing much if any quarantine and he went to six red list countries. With him they said it was OK because he's a crown servant? Must be another system we haven't heard of before.

[BazzaS]

On 06/08/2021 at 13:05, unclebulgaria67 said:

COVID-19: Delta infections produce similar virus levels regardless of vaccination status, suggests early analysis

NEWS.SKY.COM

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Coronavirus levels in people with the Delta variant are similar regardless of whether they've been vaccinated - and it "may have implications for...

 

That is half the story, though, UB.

 

IF infected, similar levels.

True, but if you are less likely to get infected if fully vaccinated.

 

So, vaccines still good, but Delta variant gives similar levels with breakthrough infections.

[tobyjugg2]

Everyone noticing the dropping number of infections being reported

.. and the rising number of hospitalisations and deaths?

 

So is it a 7-11 day delay between infections and hospitalisation?

I certainly hope so, but have severe doubts.

 

In about a week, even if sage doesn't tell us (no surprise there), we will see if the hospitalisations and deaths (hopefully a smaller increase) continue to increase

 

If so it almost certainly means infections are not being trapped, although there is a small possibility its as a result of more serious infections in fewer people.

I am already utterly certain that infections are not being identified by lft tests due to reduced symptoms in the inoculated.

 

 

 

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Less people are reporting for testing ?  They may have been double vaccinated, so if they feel slightly ill, they don't think it is Covid ?

 

And those not vaccinated, who either think they have had Covid before so have anti-bodies or have not had it think they won't become seriously ill as young, fit and healthy.

 

Government have signalled  that Covid is coming to an end and we can return to normal. They have just said people need to be cautious, sensible etc. This was debated on here at the time of the decision, where I said I thought they lifted Covid measures too soon and should have kept masks.

[unclebulgaria67]

BBC News - Covid in Sydney: Communities feel under siege as troops deployed

Covid in Sydney: Communities feel under siege as troops deployed

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

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Residents say they're being treated like second-class citizens to stem a Covid outbreak.

 

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Less people are reporting for testing ?  They may have been double vaccinated, so if they feel slightly ill, they don't think it is Covid ?

 

and even those who are testing with lfts getting false negatives - might be down as low as 10% effectiveness in identifying infections even at peak infectiousness now

 

2 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Government have signalled  that Covid is coming to an end and we can return to normal.

 

yes - mingling, infecting spreading mutating more

 

2 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

And those not vaccinated, who either think they have had Covid before so have anti-bodies or have not had it think they won't become seriously ill as young, fit and healthy.

 

 

Or thats is all a scam

- Did they ever think otherwise until they got sick?

 

 

Newer strains apparently twice as infectious, almost twice as deadly

So despite claims of half as spreadable in the inoculated (which new strains appear to be bypassing)

- the twice as spreadable nullifies that and is still double in those not inoculated - including kids

 

Twice as deadly as the original strain (perhaps more with kids) - but apparently  10-20% as deadly in the inoculated

 - but crucially - maybe twice (or more) as deadly for kids and the un-inoculated

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[unclebulgaria67]

Who information on variants

 

Tracking SARS-CoV-2 variants

WWW.WHO.INT

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 All viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, change over time. Most changes have little to no impact on the virus’ properties...

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Australia becomes a Prison colony again ?

 

COVID-19: Strict new travel laws in Australia mean people will need permission to leave the country

NEWS.SKY.COM

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The change is part of emergency biosecurity laws to help stem the transmission of COVID-19 - but there is debate about whether it is...

 

[tobyjugg2]

Does that mean Johnson and Patel will be shipping 'undesirables' there?

Join the queue

 

[tobyjugg2]

I've been doing some thinking rationalising what I think I know about vaccinating younger folk.

 

1. Despite the pfiser generating more anti-bodies, it seems that its more common to feel ill after the O/AZ - not sure why, and that seems to be what those close to me experienced.

 

2. A number of the negative effects associated with vaccines appear to be MORE associated with inflammatory (over zealous) immune responses and would likely be  the same or probably worse if they got Covid itself

 

3. Younger (healthy) folk seem to tend to generate a lot more anti-bodies as a response to the vaccines - seen this confirmed in tests from the US and Israel

 

4. During early O/AZ tests, one of the strange results was that a half dose seemed more effective - until it came out that the test group was predominantly younger

 

5. The single dose vaccine seems to work by having a lot more vaccine in one dose ... I've taken that one off MY use list until i have reason to think otherwise

 

6. More vaccinations with less vaccine may well be a better solution generally given the fall off in anti-bodies after 3-6 months

 

 

So why are we not giving what might be classed as a half dose to healthy younger folk? (maybe even everyone except those who need more) (apart from that it hasn't been requested for approval - and (very strangely) appears not to have been 'officially' tested

- There seems to be some indications and evidence to suggest:

 

* It would be at least as good or perhaps more effective overall

* Would cause less 'over zealous' immune responses

* Would vaccinate twice as many people

 

 

Note

Vaccinating others in the world aside for the moment

Edited August 11, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

1 hour ago, tobyjugg2 said:

More vaccinations with less vaccine may well be a better solution generally given the fall off in anti-bodies after 3-6 months

 

I know people who have been asked to send in blood for antibody testing but they aren't given specific results, only that they do or don't have antibodies.  We know that antibodies aren't the whole picture and I have yet to see anything definitive which says boosters are needed at all.  Would make more sense to me if we get to a stage where boosters are tailored to specific strains (like the flu vaccine) but is more of the same proven to be necessary or effective?

[tobyjugg2]

33 minutes ago, hightail said:

We know that antibodies aren't the whole picture and I have yet to see anything definitive which says boosters are needed at all.

 

 is more of the same proven to be necessary or effective?

 

Vast  amount of white space there HT (removed in quote) - or is that my browser?

 

Depends what you mean by 'definitive'. That COVID antibodies fall of over time after vaccination, and that level of antibodies is clearly defined as the current benchmark for vaccine effectiveness seems pretty definitive, until something better comes along.

 

Yes, so far, more is better up to a certain level - and the booster six months after 2nd jab is reported as returning antibody levels to around those at about 2-3 weeks after 2nd jab in both pfiser and O/AZ.

Doesn't seem to make them higher - unless you know differently?

If thats not effective - its news to me.

 

That lower but maintained levels of anti-body may be better - is my point - but I'm quite sure (until something contradicts what I've seen so far) that the fall off of levels at 6 months, certainly in the O/A, reduces resistance significantly and IS reported as an issue.

 

I will be having a booster - preferably pfiser.

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

The ONS has reported over 150,000 deaths in England and Wales so far with Covid mentioned on the death certificate

Almost 50,000 of which were in care homes

 

I can report a couple of local care homes are having repeated confirmed outbreaks and lockdowns over the last 6 weeks or so - but no definitive COVID deaths, with a relative of mine infected and come out of lockdown with nothing other than very minor issues - not bad for someone in their mid-eighties with a number of health issues.

 

The outbreaks are apparently ALL from un-vaccinated staff going into the care homes despite regular lfts

One home is now telling staff to get vaccinated or they wont have a job

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

11 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Depends what you mean by 'definitive'. That COVID antibodies fall of over time after vaccination, and that level of antibodies is clearly defined as the current benchmark for vaccine effectiveness seems pretty definitive, until something better comes along.

It's the easily measurable benchmark but haven't we had the discussion on here that we don't have measurable antibodies in our blood forever for things we're vaccinated against though we do continue to be protected? 

[honeybee13]

13 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

The ONS has reported over 150,000 deaths in England and Wales so far with Covid mentioned on the death certificate

Almost 50,000 of which were in care homes

 

I can report a couple of local care homes are having repeated confirmed outbreaks and lockdowns over the last 6 weeks or so - but no definitive COVID deaths, with a relative of mine infected and come out of lockdown with nothing other than very minor issues - not bad for someone in their mid-eighties with a number of health issues.

 

The outbreaks are apparently ALL from un-vaccinated staff going into the care homes despite regular lfts

One home is now telling staff to get vaccinated or they wont have a job

 

 

That's the same as France, except that it was the government that said nursing and care staff had to be vaccinated.

 

As of Monday, to go to a bar or restaurant, even sitting on the terrace, you have to either be fully vaccinated or have a negative PCR or antigen test.

[hightail]

14 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

with a relative of mine infected and come out of lockdown with nothing other than very minor issues - not bad for someone in their mid-eighties with a number of health issues

That's fantastic - was it pre or post vaccination?  Could be a great advert for getting jabbed.

[tobyjugg2]

11 minutes ago, hightail said:

It's the easily measurable benchmark but haven't we had the discussion on here that we don't have measurable antibodies in our blood forever for things we're vaccinated against though we do continue to be protected? 

 

Can you supply some evidence supporting that please HT?

 

The bodies defense mechanisms are immensely complex and T-cells among others are involved in longer term protection, but anti-bodies are the first line of defense that we know most about at the moment at least regarding Coronavirus.

Our knowledge is growing albeit (strangely) very slowly IMO - but the reports from the trials seem quite definitive and certain that the lowering levels of anti-bodies ARE an issue, particularly in the midst of a spreading pandemic where you are very likely to come into contact with it

 

That might be less so once the pandemic spread is under control, but I'm by no means certain even of that, and thats a long way off yet.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

5 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

As of Monday, to go to a bar or restaurant, even sitting on the terrace, you have to either be fully vaccinated or have a negative PCR or antigen test.

Do you know how it's going to work HB?  I'm sceptical about the practicality for nighclubs and gigs here from September - and whether it will apply to other venues.  I've been to the theatre twice in the last week, once in London and once in the provinces.  There were no checks at all, not even the temperature check.

[tobyjugg2]

12 minutes ago, hightail said:

That's fantastic - was it pre or post vaccination?  Could be a great advert for getting jabbed.

 

infected (confirmed by PCR) weeks past second jab

- in fact might be a couple months now I think about it

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

HT, it's early days to know if it's working. I'll have a look at the papers a bit later to see if there are any reactions for the last two days.

 

If you mean how is it being put into practice, any premises subject to this rule - and that includes museums, some shops, long distance trains and planes for example - is responsible for checking that the customer has a valid pass sanitaire. This can be on a mobile phone or on paper via the government system.

 

Police can do spot checks and if they get involved, the first fine for a customer who doesn't have a valid  pass is 135€ going up to 000s of euros and a prison sentence, I believe. For the owner of the premises, fines start at 1500€.

 

ETA: Anecdotally, numbers of antigen tests are up because these can be added to the pass sanitaire. But these are free at the moment and will become charging next month. It will be interesting to see the effect of that.

[hightail]

8 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Anecdotally, numbers of antigen tests are up because these can be added to the pass sanitaire. But these are free at the moment and will become charging next month. It will be interesting to see the effect of that

It will.  I do know one serious anti vaxxer and I don't know if they'd be happy paying if that's what happens here.  I do know there seems to be little appetite for checks from the venues themselves and I'd question our ability to enforce them purely because of manpower.  Our police would have had to hit very lucky when I was in the West End the other night as everything was open and functioning.  Very different from when restrictions were in place and fewer people were out and about.

[tobyjugg2]

They only have to refuse entry  - I've known many do that for just the wrong footwear or shirt

 

Whether they will or not, and whether venue owners thing more of 'the more people then more money' and instruct as such is another matter

[honeybee13]

The testing 'system' for travellers doesn't seem to be working well, but HMG are making a fortune in VAT,

 

Ministers face calls to intervene in ‘scam’ Covid travel test system | Coronavirus | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Travellers have complained of unfair prices, missed deliveries and slow processing of PCR tests