Lowell PAP letter now claimform - Vanquis card debt

[dx100uk]

but they have not produced any evidence in their exhibits to prove the email

so cannot just pull it out of the hat in court.

till then it's hearsay evidence and should be rebutted.

 

you say the hearing is sept 30th?

has the the judge specifically stated exchange of documents must be wednesday?

if not it's the std 14 day i think you'll see on the order?

 

dx

 

[puma85]

OK, yes you're right; there is definitely no exhibit that shows I have admitted anything.  

I'll double check the order, I'm sure it was 28 days. 

 

order.pdf

 

I also have the 'Particulars of Claim', which is very similar to the witness statement but with some differences -  Is only the evidence presented in the Witness Statement produced in court?

[dx100uk]

36 minutes ago, puma85 said:

 Is only the evidence presented in the Witness Statement produced in court?

[puma85]

24 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

 

Good news! 
The particulars includes evidence of an 'offer to settle' email sent by me after the PAP date. But this is not included in the Witness Statement 

[AndyOrch]

Where ?

 

1) The Defendant entered into a Consumer Credit Act 1974 regulated agreement with Vanquis under account reference
(the Agreement')

2) The Defendant failed to maintain the required payments and arrears began to accrue.

3) The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on 24/06/2015 and notice given to the Defendant.

4) Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of £1,750.29 remains due and outstanding.

5.And the Claimant claims
a) The said sum of £1,750.29
b) Interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £0.384, but limited to one year, being £140.02 
c) Costs

[puma85]

particulars.pdf

Point #8 refers to an email which is included in the Particulars pack.
The Witness statement mentions this same document, but a copy of the email is not included in the witness statement pack. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by puma85

[Will Goodfellow]

What exactly is your defence as you don't appear to have one?

[dx100uk]

eh?

defence has already been filed months ago..

.........

 

8. The Defendant also, by way of email, responded to the Claimant's Pre-Action Protocol
correspondence for debt claims by admitting to the sum of £700.12 and disputing the charges. A
copy of the Defendant's email is exhibited hereto at "RC6". This offer was rejected by the Claimant
as the Defendant was liable for charges pursuant to the terms and conditions of the Agreement.

 

............

 

there is no produced evidence merely heresay evidence on p'haps agreeing you might owe 'something' ...doesn't admit the debt

and email can be manipulated and changed.

which is WHY we always say use ROYAL MAIL only.

 

puma you've been here more than 8yrs now and have had many debt threads..and should know NEVER to use email ever in/out.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

[puma85]

You're right.. although the previous couple of debts I've had we're written off by the lenders as I argued they hadn't done their due diligence and should never have allowed me to open an account (payday loans). 

This is the first and only that has got this far. Its the only default on my history and 6 years is up on the 31st August (not that any of this is relevant to my defence).

 

So getting back to the Particulars/Witness statement.

Particulars do reference and include a copy of the email, but this isn't included in the Witness statement. 

Either way, this is what i understand; 

 

This evidence is also not included in the witness statement, so cannot be presented in court. 

[dx100uk]

when did you SAR lowells and when did we tell you to do that?

when did you get that particulars of claim and why is this the first we've heard of it and it's disclosures?

 

dx

[Will Goodfellow]

In my opinion, the email is irrelevant. Once Lowell produced copies of the CCA, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment your defence was wiped out. You should have accepted mediation and pushed for a Tomlin Order as all you've done is increased the debt and unless you have a couple of thousand to pay the CCJ within 30 days...

[dx100uk]

On 15/01/2020 at 11:58, Andyorch said:

The credit agreement is a pre executed copy of offer and does not name you or show any connection to your application and refers to a further application form.

No names no address no account number no credit limit....simply refers to " you " which could be anybody.

 

dx

[Will Goodfellow]

It would be helpful to see the other six pages from the particulars dated 24 Feb 2020 in post #81. Considering all of the other evidence Lowell has even without seeing those withheld six pages, the terms and conditions not being personalised seems like a weak defence, particularly as it was an online application during which the terms and conditions had to be agreed upon before submission.

 

 

[puma85]

Particulars attached.

I've only included the last page of the statements exhibit as its exactly the same as whats in the witness statement. 

pARTICULARS_compressed.pdf

 

2 hours ago, Will Goodfellow said:

In my opinion, the email is irrelevant. Once Lowell produced copies of the CCA, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment your defence was wiped out. You should have accepted mediation and pushed for a Tomlin Order as all you've done is increased the debt and unless you have a couple of thousand to pay the CCJ within 30 days...

the advice early on in this process was that huge reductions offered were likely due to the debt being unenforceable. This was later reinforced by the CCA

 

Quote

 

(The credit agreement is a pre executed copy of offer and does not name you or show any connection to your application and refers to a further application form.

No names no address no account number no credit limit....simply refers to " you " which could be anybody.)

 

But now it sounds like its pretty unlikely I'm going to win this. 

Is there anything I can do between now and the court date to negotiate a Tomlin with Lowell, or should I just start saving?

[AndyOrch]

On 12/05/2020 at 15:58, Andyorch said:

I see we have 4 month gap of no updates......

 

So have you completed your witness statement and disclosure...as per the Notice of Allocation you refer to as a " letter " dated 10th March ?

 

Andy

 

The separate particulars of claim is dated 24th Feb 2020.....unless there is paperwork missing...I can not find any court order instructing the claimant to submit separate particularised particulars (unless it happened in the 4 months of no posts)

 

Unless you can find this order....if there was one..........the claimant cannot rely on the separate particulars...so disregard it and point  8.

 

Andy

[puma85]

On 15/01/2020 at 09:23, puma85 said:

Just received the following. I presume this is standard protocol for the court.

 

general form of judgementor order.pdf 107 kB · 2 downloads

  

On 15/01/2020 at 11:07, Andyorch said:

But they have provided all the Order in your post # 40 ?

 

On 15/01/2020 at 11:14, puma85 said:

Yes thats correct.

 

Everything the Judge asked for in the last letter has already been provided to me. 

 

I'm still not sure what my angle is going to be when I get a court date.

 

From the other threads I've read it seems that missing paperwork and old debts are how defendants win.

 

Everything is in order from what I can tell. 

 

Is this a request for the particulars?

 

 

This is the request from the court scanned again, with cover letters from the claimant.

additional info requested.pdf

Edited August 31, 2020 by puma85

[AndyOrch]

No.....

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Is there anything I can do between now and the court date to negotiate a Tomlin with Lowell, or should I just start saving?

 

There is time to suggest to the claimant that you may be prepared to resolve this by way of a Tomlin Order.....on the day it would depend on the DJ and how thorough they are or whether he sees enough paperwork and simply pushes it through.

 

How badly do you wish to avoid a CCJ determines whether you wish to pursue this ?

 

Earlier in the thread you referred to unfair charges.....perhaps negotiate a settlement ?

[puma85]

Thanks. I've tried to negotiate a settlement a number of times, but have been told that they will only accept the full balance. This is despite sending me an offer of 60% discount last year. 

I absolutely want to avoid a CCJ. This is the only black mark on my credit history and It will be removed on the 31st October this year. 

Worse case; if I flat out loose the the case I should be able to pay the full amount within 30 days. I understand this stops the CCJ from being recorded?
 

Edited September 1, 2020 by puma85

[AndyOrch]

Quote

I absolutely want to avoid a CCJ

 

Then you cant take the risk....contact Lowell ASAP and inform them you wish to settle for the full amount on a payment plan and stay the claim.

[puma85]

I will contact Lowell today and see if I can settle the full amount on a payment plan to stay the claim. 
 
My understanding was that if I loose in court, I get 30 days to pay. If I don't, then I get a CCJ. Otherwise nothing is added to my credit history?

 

[AndyOrch]

Varies it can be 28 days or even forthwith...depends on what the judgment requests.

[puma85]

Is a Tomlin Order still an option here, or am I past that stage and need to agree to a payment plan with Lowell?

I have the original Tomlin Order I can sign and send to Lowell as an offer to settle. 

[AndyOrch]

What date is the hearing set for ? 

 

If you can use the original TO (check with the claimant first)...then you must get that done and sealed quick before you have to submit your statement......otherwise you should still submit your statement on time whilst the TO is being finalised and sealed with the court.

[puma85]

Thanks. 
Hearing is 30th September. I dont yet have a statement to submit. 

I have contacted the claimant directly and have asked to settle with the original TO, I will update when I have a response.