Tenancy not AST

[NumptyNooNoo]

Can anyone give advise please for young first time tenant, a family friend, who rents residential flat above shop.

1. AST not signed but Commercial Lease.

2. Deposit not protected.

3. No Gas Safety Certificate.

18 year old girl was forced to leave family home. She is a carer in nursing home & not on benefits as landlord refuses housing benefit tenants. Discovered today she has built up debt with utilities & council tax with debt collectors now chasing. She has paid rent though I looked at her tenancy agreement today which I think is illegal. The landlord let's out ground floor to a business but her flat is self contained with own entrance.

 

Can she get out of tenancy? I will let her stay with me for few months rent free so she can sort out debts.

[king12345]

How long is the commercial lease for?

Not unusual for LL to do this with flats above shops, most times because of clauses in their lease.

If she tells the LL that she's run out of money and can't pay rent, most likely the LL will be happy to see the back of her, unless there's a guarantor, in which case rent will have to be paid until end of agreement.

[NumptyNooNoo]

One year commencing 01 November 2017

There is no clause about giving notice, break lease or protecting deposit. Also LL witnessed tenant signature rather than independent witness.

Is Tenancy Agreement ligitimate?

 

The deposit has not been placed in a DPS.

 

LL son has put in his own water meter as main meter in shop premises. I am extremely concerned as they told her they will charge £3 per litre at the end of the tenancy. Hopefully this is a misunderstanding.

 

Also e.on are now charging £55 per visit to collect £600 debt for gas/electricity.

 

Council tax has not been paid either so could be £800 debt - she has not admitted to council recovery letters as yet but very likely.

 

Net pay £1100 pm, rent £450pcm, ctax £953pa (after single person discount), weekly bus pass £15pw (to get to work), food £250 pm?, medical/dentist/ extras £50pm, she is minus £120 minimum per month. I'm looking on national debtline for a plan.

 

Only option I can see is to vacate tenancy asap, I'll give her free lodgings for few months until debts paid. Long term solution? No idea. She cannot go back to her family under any circumstances.

 

1. Can she leave tenancy?

2. Claim against LL for deposit not protected?

3. No written agreement about LL charging her for water.

3. Voluntary arrangement for debts.

[sgtbush]

Even on your figures they are in the positive of £239.70/month and two of those months will be £95.30 better off. Council tax is 10 payments/year.

 

£250/month for 1 persons food is exessive but lets go with that figure.

 

Why are they being chased for utility debt when there is a lot of surplus?

 

 

Anyways the LL cannot charge £3/litre for water.

Deposit has to be protected

[NumptyNooNoo]

Point well made. Thanks. Sorry, forgot to add on gas/elec/water/tv licence/mobile £172 + £20 baccy. However, I need to find out what she spent her money on if not paid elec/ ctax. She clearly has head in the sand about priority debts. Trouble is debts soon become unmanageable. Will get her to run over her spending properly as she's in denial as she having panic attacks thinking only option is prison. I'm also in shock it's got so bad so quick. Shame, she's a nice kid & trying to survive by working not claiming.

 

Remaining issues -

1. Can the Commercial Tenancy Agreement replace an AST? It seems to provide for generic covenants in LL Lease rather than standard tenancy conditions. If so, her options are only to find replacement tenant or to give notice in 3 months.

 

2. Also need to serve LL letters re lack of Deposit Protection

 

3. Gas Safety check not provided

[BazzaS]

 

as she having panic attacks thinking only option is prison.

 

Not since the era of Dickens!

[NumptyNooNoo]

Penalties for Council Tax arrears - Bailiffs, Court fines, custodial (albeit last resort though I have read of pensioners being banged up in prison)

 

Utility Arrears - E.ON letter 20 July threatening Warrant to enter premises with police & locksmith & install prepayment meter -

 

She needs template letter & proper budget to make voluntary arrangement for both of the above. Need to sort out pronto.

 

So going back to the Commercial Tenancy Agreement, even though this is a residential self contained flat, this refers to Housing Act 1988, amended 1996 so it is outdated as further legislation passed since then. Arrangements to quit tenancy at end of tenancy are not included so are we to assume wording is irrelevant even though this is not a standard Shorthold Tenancy Agreement? I just want to know if there is a get out clause if the signed agreement is invalid. If not will she have to get replacement tenant for LL approval before she can leave?

 

Also if LL cannot produce retrospective proof of protected deposit (which she won't be able to) what are the chances of:

a) getting approvlal for replacement tenant?

b) return of deposit if no rent arrears

c) suing LL through small claims court for 3 x deposit

[ericsbrother]

well, b and c are a shoo in as that is the law, not a matter for contracts. The 3x deposit is a maximum and the exact amount discretionary so she could just get the deposit back plus costs.

I wouldnt fuss too much about a) either, let LL find someone else or lose money, they have the other things to worry about as far as this girl goes so she gives notice and says she wants deposit returned immediately as not protected and retains the right to sue anyways. That may get the LL to consider what he wants to do about any termination agreement settlement. Again, gas safety cert a good lever rather than something worth suing for as a stand alone

[BazzaS]

Not since the era of Dickens!

 

Charles Dickens, that is, not Geoffrey!

 

Penalties for Council Tax arrears - Bailiffs, Court fines, custodial (albeit last resort though I have read of pensioners being banged up in prison)

 

Utility Arrears - E.ON letter 20 July threatening Warrant to enter premises with police & locksmith & install prepayment meter -

 

She needs template letter & proper budget to make voluntary arrangement for both of the above. Need to sort out pronto.

 

So going back to the Commercial Tenancy Agreement, even though this is a residential self contained flat, this refers to Housing Act 1988, amended 1996 so it is outdated as further legislation passed since then. Arrangements to quit tenancy at end of tenancy are not included so are we to assume wording is irrelevant even though this is not a standard Shorthold Tenancy Agreement? I just want to know if there is a get out clause if the signed agreement is invalid. If not will she have to get replacement tenant for LL approval before she can leave?

 

Also if LL cannot produce retrospective proof of protected deposit (which she won't be able to) what are the chances of:

a) getting approvlal for replacement tenant?

b) return of deposit if no rent arrears

c) suing LL through small claims court for 3 x deposit

 

Only council tax might be prison, and that is for the “won’t pay” not “can’t pay” brigade ....

[NumptyNooNoo]

Well, she has to face up to debts as they aren't going away.

 

She just needs a plan even it it means giving up flat, bunking in with friends, paying it off asap & learning the hard way what it's like living in the adult world which circumstances have forced her into prematurely.

 

Oh the joys of being a private tenant & the lack of affordable housing to match national minimum wage.

 

Current plan if action: Give notice to LL, getting deposit back as not protected whilst casually mentioning 3 x penalty if it goes to court, ring creditors & come to agreement. What she would have spend on rent/c Tax/ bills to pay off £2k debts. Have allowance for food & cannot go over. Review situation in 2019 & start over. Seek help as soon as bills are overdue, not 9 months down the line.

[ploddertom]

There are somethings that do need to be checked as things may have progressed further:

1 - what stage is she at for Council Tax - have they obtained a Liability Order yet & if so has it been sent on for Enforcement?

2 - utility arrears - has it been to Court yet? Have they sought to obtain a CCJ?

[NumptyNooNoo]

No idea. Scary. Will have to get the full story from her.

Taking her to benefits advice office this week as she can't take time off work & lose job. Also if tenancy ends with debts to pay off we don't want our address given to creditors so they will have to have her mum's.