Arrow/shoos Ordinary Civil Bill [NI] - old HBOS Card debt

[BJ6605]

I’ve had a look for a form 42 as well and can’t find it

 

I live in NI I will call into my local court and see if I can get one from the clerk

 

I’ll also ask a few questions about the process

 

If Andy or DX require any particular info please let m know

 

Jon

 

Jon, thank you. Your help is really appreciated. We don't know where to start with this and any advice here is invaluable.

[AndyOrch]

If your creditor uses the county court they can get judgment against for both the outstanding debt and their professional legal costs and expenses. So, if you are served with a Civil Bill, you should get legal advice as soon as possible. If you are on a low income you may be entitled to Legal Aid to help you defend your case. You should always take advice before deciding on your best way forward.

 

If you admit to the debt, don't defend the case, rather contact the creditor or their solicitor to discuss how you may be able to settle the debt.

If you dispute the debt, you must, within 18/21 days of the Civil Bill being served upon you, send or take a 'Notice of Intention to Defend' together a copy of the Civil Bill to the County Court. see post#24 above

 

Several months may pass before your case will be heard, because time is allowed for exchange of documents and information between you and the creditor (known as discovery) so that the issues in dispute can be clarified. In this process you'll have to answer formal questions put in writing to you (known as Notice for Particulars). Only once this has been completed will a date of hearing be set.

[BJ6605]

Thanks Andy, that paints a rather bleak picture.

 

Given what you have told us, my relative would not wish to have this hanging over her for several months with little likelihood of any defence being successful and the high risk of being liable for all costs.

 

She has indicated to me that she would prefer to contact Shoosmith direct and try to negotiate some sort of repayment plan. In your opinion, would an offer of £20 per month be accepted on a £5k debt? Alternatively, what would be a realistic figure for a potential F&F settlement? I realise you are stabbing in the dark here but any advice would be appreciated.

Edited March 8, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[AndyOrch]

Not quite stabbing in the dark but I prefer English Litigation to Irish

 

The important point in negotiating with any creditor is to offer a realistic affordable payment plan to avoid litigation proceeding, with regards to the proposed offer...ring or email them and make your offer...sounds reasonable to me but it should be based on her I&E and easily manageable.

 

With regards to F&FS I see no point if the above is accepted...make them wait for their money.....there is nothing to be gained by paying a F&FS

[jon8214]

So, I finally got to the court today and unfortunately as Andy has suggest she advised that because it is a civil bill you would be best to get solicitor advice as the way it works over here is completely different and vastly more expensive if you lose in a civil bill case.

 

Sorry its not what everyone was looking for but she did say that if it was under £3000 it would have been a small claim and you would have been able to do it as a LiP

[dx100uk]

darn

 

might be worthy to get a an SAR running though it wont help the claim.

 

was this the only account with hbos was there a loan and or OD too?

just phishing?

[AndyOrch]

So, I finally got to the court today and unfortunately as Andy has suggest she advised that because it is a civil bill you would be best to get solicitor advice as the way it works over here is completely different and vastly more expensive if you lose in a civil bill case.

 

Sorry its not what everyone was looking for but she did say that if it was under £3000 it would have been a small claim and you would have been able to do it as a LiP

 

My post# 7 was from the claimants perspective not the defendants ...you dont need a Solicitor to handle any defence and costs are fixed....but irrespective of that you dont appear to be able to offer a defence anyway ?

 

Have you contacted Shoos yet ?

 

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

I believe its like the old Scottish ordinary cause before the recent change

you send back the intention to defend

then you get a further form to file a defence on if the sheriff moves it to option hearing?

[jon8214]

yeah from what the clerk said you lodge your intention to defend and then then it gets listed for a hearing in the intervening time you can request the documentation from the claimants, it doesn't cost to request the docs because you sent it to the sole dierectly

 

it is when it goes to hearing you can state if the documents have been produced or not

 

the problem is, is if you loose the case you are liable for all the claimants costs and they can be quite high in NI

 

that is the reason it is recommended to get a solicitors advice on whether you have a realistic chance of winning

[AndyOrch]

" the debtor is liable to pay the principal sum, applicable interest and a higher scale of recoverable costs."

 

Similar to our Fast Track

 

" that is the reason it is recommended to get a solicitors advice on whether you have a realistic chance of winning "

 

You have not offered a defence here...you dont need a solicitor to tell you that.

[BJ6605]

Thanks Jon, for taking the time to call into an NI Court and post your findings here. Also, thanks Andy and dx100uk for your continued and helpful advice. Incidentally dx100uk, this was the only account with HBOS, there was no o/d or loan.

 

Given that we think the chances of making a successful defence are minimal and the risks are high, my relative has decided against offering a defence. She has completed an I&E sheet clearly showing that she has minimal surplus income and made an offer of £10 per month and sent it to Shoosmiths.

 

The ball is in their court now. They can accept the offer or follow through with the Civil Bill which, I would assume, they would win but, ultimately, they would not get their money any quicker as it simply is not there! Blood and a stone and all that.

 

It's a pity really, as we'll never know how far Shoosmith would have proceeded had we called their bluff. Phishing on their part?

 

I'll update this thread if/when we hear back from them. Thanks again guys.

Edited March 11, 2018 by BJ6605

[dx100uk]

is there no a court form like the time order form in Scotland that you can get and send that in?

again I'm unsure how NI work

but in Scotland there are sheriff clerks at each court and they are VERY helpful..

 

jon any ideas?

[jon8214]

The problem with my nearest court, Laganside in Belfast, it is all done over the phone so you don’t get to see the person face to face

 

But to clarify what she said-

 

You submit intention to defend online

 

Request documents from claimant

 

If not received in 28 days you can ask the judge to enforce the disclosure of documents, there are 2 ways to do this 1 is free the other is £125

 

Once documents are disclosed then you can file defence

 

And case runs as per judges directions, eg statement hearings etc

It seem pretty similar to E&W fast track

 

It can end up pretty expensive if you loose but the problem here is we have no document to gauge the strength of this claim against

 

I think it may be an idea to submit intention to defend and request docs

 

Then see what we can do from there, if they have a solid case then could be the time to speak about a settlement offer

[dx100uk]

so what happened?