Universal Credit - is there a Job Centre "rulebook"? Feel free to advise too...

[rainbo]

Hello all,

 

The background to why I'm asking...

My friend has just moved into a UC area.

He was on ESA WRAG (mental health issues) and HB at his old place, single person claim.

The move into UC area = change of circumstance means he's been forced to claim UC.

 

At the Job Centre appt last week to prove his identity and get him onto the system,

they said even though he's already on ESA,

this UC claim has ended his ESA entitlement and that he needs to get a fit note to start the assessment process all over again.

 

Problem is, having just moved into the area, he's only just applied for a GP so still waiting for the "10 days minimum" before he's fully registered and can get an appt.

 

JC lady set the next appt to bring in fit note for the following week and to request a different appt on his "journal" if he couldn't get a fit note by then. As this was the case, he requested a different appt, JC advisor wrote back saying this was fine and gave a new appt for the week after next.

 

Today he's received a phone call from her,

saying that he needed to agree to this change in his journal and the things in his TO DO LIST, or he would be sanctioned?!?!

 

In the TO DO LIST she's sent him a page of sanction info to agree to, about what would happen if doesn't stick to his committments, and it lists all stuff about looking for work, taking any paid work he can do, and being available for interviews etc.

 

I don't believe he should be agreeing to this.

I've told him not to do anything until I've read the UC rules that the JC staff have to stick to.

 

So please, could someone point me to the Universal Credit rules for JC workers please?

And if anyone has advice regarding anything I've written above, please do let me know.

 

Thanks in advance.

[AndyOrch]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?441364-Universal-Credit-national-expansion-%96-Tranche-two&highlight=Universal+Credit

[rainbo]

Thanks for that - I can't see an official JC guidelines link there though

[rainbo]

Just had another thought...

 

As he's already on ESA, surely that by being awarded ESA the government has "approved" his entitlement? And therefore he shouldn't be having to get a fit note to prove he's too ill to work under UC?

[AndyOrch]

We will have to wait until our experts are logged on rainbo and hopefully get the correct links and advice.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rainbo]

Just an update

- I wrote a note for him and on behalf of him, part of it said:

"According to https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Universal_Credit_Work_Capability_Assessment

 

- “If you move to Universal Credit from Employment and Support Allowance and have already been assessed as having limited capability for work you will not have to undertake the assessment again.

 

If you were in the work related activity group you will be awarded the LCW element and if you were in the support group you will be awarded the LCWRA element.”

 

This means that as [his name-redacted] has already been assessed as having LCW he shouldn’t be having supply a GP’s fit note, as these are only required at the assessment phase of a UC claim and therefore unnecessary for a UC claimant who is migrating from ESA.Please could you look into this, and if I am incorrect, please send links to the relevant legislation."

 

His work coach has replied

"it is a requirement under UC" to supply the fit note if his commitment to "intensive work seaches" is to change.

She supplied no links.

Thanks in advance to the experts

I've been given THE legislation, http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1230/pdfs/uksi_20141230_en.pdf REGULATION 19.

He should be treated as though he's still in receipt of the previous ESA award.

How to tell the work coach this diplomatically, I will have to leave until tomorrow.

 

If anyone else has further advice, I will be keeping an eye on this thread

- I do hope this predicament and added links so far will help someone else in the future (and I hope more that they won't need to!).

[unclebulgaria67]

Get the Job Centre work coach to make an urgent Decision Maker (DM) referral. The DM can find out the prognosis period given under the ESA medical and that should decide when the next UC Work capability assessment is due.

 

When you have a Work Capability Assessment (WCA)for a benefit the medical professional advises a prognosis period of 1,2 or 3 years and if a DM accepts this, then a new WCA is not required for the relevant number of years.

 

The person who had the WCA might be aware of the progosis period. They can ask for a copy of the ESA WCA medical on which the DM decision was based. By phoning the ESA helpline they can get the information, if they wanted it.

 

At some point a new WCA will be required and the Job Centre Work Coach may be correct that it is due now, if the ESA prognosis period has expired. This might be why they have asked for Doctors sick notes.

[speedfreek]

Your best bet to sort this out is a duel approach;

 

1, lodge a complaint - very important this

 

2, keep referring them to Transitional Protection reg 19 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1230/contents/made

 

This thread has a good letter linked in it. https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/12266/

 

Also every time they try and do something not consistent with TP Reg 19 keep lodging new complaints for each action.

[unclebulgaria67]

Transitional protection I think only applies to managed migration that DWP instigate.

 

If a claimant has a change of circumstances, that is classed as natural migration and not covered by transitional protection rules.

[rainbo]

Thanks guys for the advice so far

 

I have an update.

 

I phoned the UC helpline today (Friday)

- my friend was with me.

 

I set out the case to the UC person who answered.

 

They agreed that it certainly sounded like no fit note was required,

 

HOWEVER...my friend is on the "new style UC" which is pretty much all online and was a different helpline number.

 

UC person gave me the number and transferred me.

 

Half an hour waiting to be answered first time round, almost the same this time round...

 

New UC person again was very nice.

I quoted Reg 19 at them.

They took all the details etc.

 

They said that friend would likely need to have another WCA under UC, and I said that's fair enough, as he's had WCAs under ESA, so why can't they take the fact he's already on ESA as proof of LCW for UC??

They went to speak to a manager.

 

When they came back they said that they'd looked into my friend's journal and claim and found that although ESA had been stopped on the day that the UC claim started, an important form that requests his ESA 'file' for a UC claim HAD NOT been sent by the JC , so UC phone person requested it for them.

 

They said that at this stage it would be best if my friend obtained a fit note, as he needs to comply with the things set out in his journal.

 

After around 90 mins on the phone,

we hadn't 'won' the fit note issue,

but I was glad that SOMETHING (that form) had been actioned and that things were a little more clear (for me, at least).

My friend & I parted ways shortly after.

 

I then received a message from him,

that his journal had been updated.

 

It was updated by the UC helpline person.

 

The message from them on the journal said that [NAME REDACTED: his case manager = NOT his work coach] will be reviewing his case AND the issues, and will be contacting him

[DATE REDACTED: date after the weekend] with information...!!

I am tentatively holding my breath in the hope that the fit note issue is clarified...

[stu007]

Have a wee look at this link as well: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions/about/complaints-procedure

[unclebulgaria67]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance

 

This is a National Insurance contribution based benefit that is paid for up to 365 days. At the end of 365 days, if the person still needed benefits they would have to transfer onto UC Full Service. By the end of 2018 all of the UK should be UC full service. You can check online for UC full service roll out dates to job centres.

 

In regard to WCA medical, my understanding is that if the previous ESA medical is still within the prognosis period, then ESA live service would just accept the current WCA details. If the prognosis period runs out during the 365 days of this new style ESA, then a new WCA is arranged at that point.

 

The point of the prognosis period if accepted by DWP, is that this is the time period it is accepted the benefit claimant will be unfit for work. If someone is incorrectly referred for another WCA, get hold of the previous WCA decision and how long the prognosis period is. If the matter is then referred to a Decision Maker, they are most likely to say that a new WCA is not required until the prognosis period runs out.