Withholding video evidence

[tony c]

OP was going to refuse the FPN and go to court (in that thread about a different set of events).

OP, did you go to court? what was the outcome? (depending on the outcome it might be relevant to your current situation !)

Case dismissed witness was lying

[BazzaS]

Case dismissed witness was lying

 

Good, as nothing negative there the employer would have had to be informed about, (& that might not be exempt under Rehab of Offenders legislation!)

[Emmzzi]

Tony, you have not actually said you did not do anything wrong.

 

Why are you being evasive?

 

An employer will certainly pick up on that. It will not help your case at all.

[BazzaS]

Emzzi, Shush!.

(From my experience of disciplinaries, I think you are accurate and it is worth raising......)

 

Yet, it risks you being called "judgmental" and accused of subjecting the OP to "ridicule". Different viewpoints, see.

[renegadeimp]

Well, this isnt the first time youve been caught out for something like this.

 

As already sated, your best bet is to go in, be truthful, make no comment until you have asked and seen video evidence and got 15 mins to look it over and discuss it with your rep. If the video clearly shows you being abusive, then all you can do is be VERY apologetic and hope your employers side with you.

 

Im going to keep my personal viewpoint out of it, but you NEED to tell the truth. If it doesnt match with the video evidence, youll be out of a job as your employer will see you are lying to them. Un;ess of course you have an extremely leniant employer and the abuse/swearing wasnt as bad as we think.

[tony c]

Wow you lot are really bang on it I suppose you all live in your perfect bubble worlds where no one causes you any probs and the whole kaleidoscope is so pretty.

Why dont you get your heads out of your judgemental backsides

 

 

I have asked a simple question relating to a query.

Then you drag up my past on a website.

 

 

I recieved very good advice from CAG a good few yrs ago.

I guess those nice people are not here no more.

If you can delete the thread as I really wouldn't want to intrude in your oh so perfect world.

[BazzaS]

Well, this isnt the first time youve been caught out for something like this.

 

OP's previous court appearance is irrelevant to current disciplinary, as the case was dismissed.

What they have told us did occurr might speak to a trend / pattern of behaviour : hence me asking if OP is currently subject to any disciplinary warning (a not unreasonable and relevant question!)

 

 

Im going to keep my personal viewpoint out of it, but you NEED to tell the truth. If it doesnt match with the video evidence, youll be out of a job as your employer will see you are lying to them. Un;ess of course you have an extremely leniant employer and the abuse/swearing wasnt as bad as we think.

 

I don't know how bad to think what was said was : OP needs to be clear on what did happen.

 

Wow you lot are really bang on it I suppose you all live in your perfect bubble worlds where no one causes you any probs and the whole kaleidoscope is so pretty. Why dont you get your heads out of your judgemental backsides I have askwd a simple question relating to a query. Then you drag up my past on a website. I recieved very good advice from CAG a good few yrs ago. I guess those nice people are not here no more. If you can delete the thread as I really wouldn't want to intrude in your oh so perfect world.

 

Both RI and myself posted to that thread, when it was current.

 

There is a difference between expecting you to be perfect and you "having a short fuse" (which you are giving the appearance is the case!) which would be relevant to any disciplinary.

 

Giving you advice based on you being perfect won't help you if you "haven't been an angel" - that isn't being judgmental, but is wanting to give you realistic advice (be that for defence OR mitigation).

 

Responding aggressively to posters here leads to questions of how you'll be likely to respond in a disciplinary: the process has to be fair but that doesn't exclude them seeing if you "rise to the bait"!

[king12345]

I've defended union members for many years and at one point bus drivers as well.

 

I can tell you one thing:

CCTV always show something different from what the driver remembers because of how quickly things happen whilst driving.

 

Example: A bus driver was called in on allegations that he had passed a red light and almost hit a car at the junction,

had to brake hard making his passengers go forth.

 

When I first spoke to the driver he said that maybe he had passed a red light because he was on an A road at 40mph and it went from amber to red very quickly.

 

He didn't remember having to slam on the brakes.

we made a statement saying that he didn't recollect the event, rather than committing to an admission.

 

When we saw the CCTV , the driver had passed on amber, not on red, and 200 yards after the junction, on a clear stretch of road he had to brake and change lane to let an ambulance pass.

 

Even if they tried getting him on the amber light, eventually the case was dismissed because the person making the complaint just did so to make a personal injury claim.

 

Moral of the story is that until clear footage is seen,

not even the people involved can surely say what happened and said without fail.

 

That's why police take statements from everyone who witness an incident so the can "reconstruct" the likely truth.

 

You should see statements from different people who witness the same incident;

completely different stories sometimes with characters that were not even there!

 

One other thing is that 99% of the times, a complainant will exaggerate their story by adding words never said, actions never done and a lot of other lies to "garnish" the complaint.

 

Experienced managers will read through the complaint and immediately find inconsistences,

however nowadays I see many complaints being taken seriously which are clearly a pack of lies.

[AndyOrch]

Lets keep this civil please

 

Andy

[renegadeimp]

Hi tony.

Can i ask a few questions?

That way we can clear some things up and we can stop the back and forward arguments which arent constructive at all to your issue.

 

 

• What is it you are accused of saying.
  
• What did you actually say.
  
• Will the video back up what you said at the time?
  

[tony c]

Mr RI

I have been accused of displaying threatening abusive and bullying behaviour towards a member of the public .

 

I am accused of calling him and I quote the bikers statement.

Are you a fuc*ing retard.

Your a wan*er

your a cu*t and a Bastard.

He then goes onto state I tried to run him over with my van.

 

The video will NOT back up his evidence because those swear words I do not use,

I have a penchant for dick head and Piers Morgan.

they seem suffice for today's world.

 

he has accused me of flying into a rage.

This I didn't do cos believe me a rage he would not want to see but that is neither here nor there.

 

I only want to see the video because I can honestly say hand on heart I told him to **** off once.

And that was in such a non significant way I hardly remembered it.

 

now I realise things have got stupid in here and for that I am sorry

but I really don't see the point of bringing up past queries.

 

However what has happened has happened.

 

i may sound like a typical thug but I am not I am just man who rightly or wrongly will not have the **** taking out of him.

[renegadeimp]

Ok. Thankyou. Then the best thing for you to do is to go into the meeting with your representative. Tell them exactly what happened from your recollection. Ask to see the video evidence then have a short recess to discuss it with your representative ( you are allowed to do this, so dont let the person doing the disciplinary say otherwise). If the video evidence matches what you say, then nothing more will come of it.

 

Also remember that IF ( and none of us know what actually happened) the evidence shows you tried to drive towards the person in your van, then it could be taken further including legal action. But if that happened, chances are the person would have gone to the police. Not called your employer instead.

 

As you say, it all hinges on that video evidence now. Until you get into that meeting and request to see it and ask for a recess to discuss it, they are under no obligation to provide it. This is so an accused party cannot view it first then invent a story to fit the scene. They will likely ask for your side first before you are allowed to view the video.

[sgtbush]

I think after the video evidence is shown the OP should book a course on anger management.

The other post the OP posted is of a similar vein and that just shows form and history.

[spitfire1964]

Mr RI

I have been accused of displaying threatening abusive and bullying behaviour towards a member of the public .

 

I am accused of calling him and I quote the bikers statement.

Are you a fuc*ing retard.

Your a wan*er

your a cu*t and a Bastard.

He then goes onto state I tried to run him over with my van.

 

The video will NOT back up his evidence because those swear words I do not use,

I have a penchant for dick head and Piers Morgan.

they seem suffice for today's world.

 

he has accused me of flying into a rage.

This I didn't do cos believe me a rage he would not want to see but that is neither here nor there.

 

I only want to see the video because I can honestly say hand on heart I told him to **** off once.

And that was in such a non significant way I hardly remembered it.

 

now I realise things have got stupid in here and for that I am sorry

but I really don't see the point of bringing up past queries.

 

However what has happened has happened.

 

i may sound like a typical thug but I am not I am just man who rightly or wrongly will not have the **** taking out of him.

 

Don't be sorry mate, I can really see where you are coming from, others giving advice and that is all it counts for on here it just that, advice, that said you would have thought a few of the more senior members with my green dots than the likes of me and you seem to be convinced that their status on a public forum allows them to be judgemental and what they say goes, take no notice mate and don't waste your energy, bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

 

Take a step back mate, you are wound up and rightly so, if the evidence or the div rider was remotely telling the truth he would be handing the video evidence and reporting you to the proper autrhorities in such event, the fact that he has not done this and gone whimpering to your employees and in the hope of getting you the sack, says a lot for me.

 

Only you know the truth, I am with you on this, I know how some people work in life.

[tony c]

Don't be sorry mate, I can really see where you are coming from, others giving advice and that is all it counts for on here it just that, advice, that said you would have thought a few of the more senior members with my green dots than the likes of me and you seem to be convinced that their status on a public forum allows them to be judgemental and what they say goes, take no notice mate and don't waste your energy, bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

 

Take a step back mate, you are wound up and rightly so, if the evidence or the div rider was remotely telling the truth he would be handing the video evidence and reporting you to the proper autrhorities in such event, the fact that he has not done this and gone whimpering to your employees and in the hope of getting you the sack, says a lot for me.

 

Only you know the truth, I am with you on this, I know how some people work in life.

Thanks spitfire means a lot

 

I think after the video evidence is shown the OP should book a course on anger management.

The other post the OP posted is of a similar vein and that just shows form and history.

Sgtbush could it quite possibly be that my accuser is totally lying and nothing like his stream of events actually happened. I did tell him to eff off once. And for that I am regretful but I drive for 10 hrs a day and I pass thousands of motorists a day it is not my fault that people take exception to my driving.

[king12345]

I only drive 20 miles a day and I see lots of bad driving and motorcyclists winding other drivers up, so I can understand how much more you see in 10 hours.

As I said, you can't change your statement now, so go in and don't give any more info different from your statement until you see the video footage.

By the way, where's this footage from?

Your on board camera or biker's camera.

If he filmed you on his mobile while driving, get the number plate and report him to the police.

Also, check if the biker has put the footage on YouTube, many do and that could give you an advantage in the DM.

[sgtbush]

Sgtbush could it quite possibly be that my accuser is totally lying and nothing like his stream of events actually happened. I did tell him to eff off once. And for that I am regretful but I drive for 10 hrs a day and I pass thousands of motorists a day it is not my fault that people take exception to my driving.

 

 

Yes you are correct. I also pass thousands of motorists a day and I've never had a confrontation in the way you described.

Its your last bit of the quoted post that sends red flags up.

"its not my fault that people take exception to my driving"

 

That is a passive aggressive mentality.

 

You need anger management

[tony c]

I think you need to mind your own business I can't understand how a person on a key board can ascertain someone's mental state without meeting them. I have driven for well over 30 yrs and had not 1 accident that was my fault. Yes there have been instances where people **** me off on the road. But driving is not hard it's idiots on the road that make it hard. So you have made an assumption regarding anger issues. Let me ask you do you sit in the middle lane of the motorway and refuse to move out of said lane.my guess is yes.

[BazzaS]

Sgtbush could it quite possibly be that my accuser is totally lying and nothing like his stream of events actually happened. I did tell him to eff off once. And for that I am regretful but I drive for 10 hrs a day and I pass thousands of motorists a day it is not my fault that people take exception to my driving.

 

Yes you are correct. I also pass thousands of motorists a day and I've never had a confrontation in the way you described.

Its your last bit of the quoted post that sends red flags up.

"its not my fault that people take exception to my driving"

 

That is a passive aggressive mentality.

 

You need anger management

 

 

I think you need to mind your own business I can't understand how a person on a key board can ascertain someone's mental state without meeting them. I have driven for well over 30 yrs and had not 1 accident that was my fault. Yes there have been instances where people **** me off on the road. But driving is not hard it's idiots on the road that make it hard. So you have made an assumption regarding anger issues. Let me ask you do you sit in the middle lane of the motorway and refuse to move out of said lane.my guess is yes.

 

And the employer's likely viewpoint?.

 

"There are idiots on the road. Our drivers will encounter them.

We know our drivers will encounter idiots on the road, and we can't influence that.

So, what can we do to influence the situation / reduce our risk?."

 

Lets fit dashcams to our vehicles, so we have video evidence to protect ourselves.

Have a company driver behaviour policy.

 

Do we want drivers who will abreact, and start telling people to "F-off" (even if provoked)?.

If we have a driver (who does seem to react more than others who are more laid back), and they end up in a disciplinary, what might suggest they have insight into this, and want to take steps to reduce the corporate risk we see them pose.....

 

Perhaps a 2003 comedy film, referencing "abrasive negativists", starring Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson, if your employer perceives you need to "unfluster".......

[sgtbush]

I too have driven for over 30 years...

I've not had 1 accident, fault or non fault. Luckily.

I was done for speeding in 1989 for doing 37 in a 30 tho...

I have (but not currently) held an class1 HGV licence and a PSV licence.

People annoy meon the road too,pulling out in front, cutting up etc but my attitude is ok, carry on, at least your not an ass hat behind me.

Your use of English language in the written sense is your giveaway your being passive aggressive

So in answer to your last thrown slur, no I dont drive down lane2 and refuse to yield.

I suspect your the tailgater in lane 3 trying to do 80+ with no regard for other road users.

 

I hope the company vehicle you drive is not liveried up as to advertise what company you work for.

As I would question your employers integrity and rationale in employing a driver that tells other drivers to F off, what sort of message does that send out about the quality of the company.

Red flags

[tony c]

You are boring with your assumptions. You put people's lives at risk doing 37 in a 30 perhaps it was me tailgating you that made you do it.

 

And the employer's likely viewpoint?.

 

"There are idiots on the road. Our drivers will encounter them.

We know our drivers will encounter idiots on the road, and we can't influence that.

So, what can we do to influence the situation / reduce our risk?."

 

Lets fit dashcams to our vehicles, so we have video evidence to protect ourselves.

Have a company driver behaviour policy.

 

Do we want drivers who will abreact, and start telling people to "F-off" (even if provoked)?.

If we have a driver (who does seem to react more than others who are more laid back), and they end up in a disciplinary, what might suggest they have insight into this, and want to take steps to reduce the corporate risk we see them pose.....

 

Perhaps a 2003 comedy film, referencing "abrasive negativists", starring Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson, if your employer perceives you need to "unfluster".......

 

Perhaps you could get a supporting part playing a stooge

[Emmzzi]

Perhaps you could get a supporting part playing a stooge

 

Hello,

 

I am not sure this is going to help you with your employer. Working on calm responses might help more?

[sgtbush]

Hello,

 

I am not sure this is going to help you with your employer. Working on calm responses might help more?

 

The OP's response to that post just highlights and confirms my response of anger management may be of use

[tony c]

Emmzzi I am calm and I will respond to any perceived digs. This hostility is coming from all sides. I only wanted an answer to a relatively simple question. And then YOU decide to act like a stalker and feel obliged to drag up my past. What ever you or your companions on here feel about how I answer your question or digs should not defer from the fact that I didn't warrant any such ridicule or bitterness.

[tony c]

The OP's response to that post just highlights and confirms my response of anger management may be of use

Ooh look the speedster is back. Mr bush are you an anger management specialist if you are I hope your better at that than sticking to speed limits.