UKPC PCN failing to display a blue badge - Onyx retail park, Wath upon Dearne

[cjt]

Hi really need some advice,

 

I'm a support worker to the disabled,

I'd taken a client with learning disabilities and mobility out on a drive.

 

My client needed the loo,

I drove to the nearest place which happened to be on private land.

 

The sign as you enter says.

Private parking read terms and conditions.

 

i drove straight to the disability bays.

The little signs at the front of the bay just says disabled parking,

I took him to the loo, came out to a penalty notice.

 

I even spoke to the attendant and he could clearly see my client was disabled.

 

I appealed it,

they wanted to see a copy of his blue badge,

well I then got told he didn't have one as he lived with his disabled elderly mum who has one,

 

I sent them a copy of a letter from department of work and pensions stating he claims high rate disability and high rate mobility, they rejected it,

 

the terms and conditions of parking are not displayed at these bays,

I'd have had to walk away from the shop to read them.

 

I could no way read these conditions whilst stood outside of the car.

 

I appealed to POPLA, they too have rejected it,

saying a sign is to the right,

yes in the loading bay,

not by the disability bays.

 

hy would I walk over to the loading bay to read t&cs.

 

Totally the opposite direction of where we were heading.

 

They also have not even mentioned anything about my client actually being disabled.

Because he has severe learning disabilities he's not capable of applying for a blue badge, and well if his family doesn't then I feel he's been discriminated against just for not having a blue badge.

 

Anyone know where I stand now please, I'm expecting threatening court letters etc

Edited March 2, 2017 by cjt

[dx100uk]

sure it says penalty notice?

 

 

can you fill this out please too

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

[cjt]

Parking charge sorry

 

26/11/2016 it was issued by UKPC at Onyx retail park, Wath upon Dearne. Issued at 12.15, first seen at 12.15

[dx100uk]

and can we see your appeal letters and their replies

[suitably redacted please to PDF]

 

 

follow the upload

[cjt]

Sorry if I'm not doing this right, not sure how I can upload things on my phone

[cjt]

I have an email that POPLA sent me with everything on so I'll try. Thank you

[dx100uk]

if you want a secure email to fwd it too we have one

[cjt]

I've sent the email to my daughter, so she can take off all personal details etc. Bare with me please. Ill upload asap

 

I didn't even think it was enforceable on private land:-(

 

if you want a secure email to fwd it too we have one

 

Hi could you forward on your email please if I could send you the info that way, struggling to upload. Thanks

[dx100uk]

Pm sent I can redact too

[cjt]

Thanks,i'll know for next time.I don't have a laptop and the phone and tablet just don't want to play

[dx100uk]

sadly I think you've made a boo boo by identifying yourself as the driver

and

theres no such thing as a BB on private land.

they 've had you for a fool in using that as an excuse to get you to implicated yourself as the driver.

 

 

let EB comment

 

 

dx

[cjt]

Surely then if there is no such thing as the blue badge scheme on private land, they can't fine me fo not having one.

 

I'm willing to go to court with this, if they can't officially fine for using a scheme that doesn't apply

 

Thanks for sorting out the tthumbnails.

 

Also I read that the t &c of parking should be readable from driving into the space or on leaving the car

 

that was only achievable if I walked away from subway area to the loading area.

 

Thanks anyhow for your assistance

I'll hopefully hear from EB

[ericsbrother]

your biggest mistake was writing to these cowboys without knowing the law that is applicable,

 

if you had read up on that before writing you would have realised that there isnt such a thing as disabled parking in England other than on council land.

 

So, next time dont waste a tree,

come here first and get advice on procedure,

the parking companies often get it wrong,

UKPC never get it right.

 

You may have exhausted the parking appeals process but that doesnt mean they are right.

 

This is down to contract law and as the signs at the entrance to the land are not a contract but an invitation to treat they are not relevant.

 

the lack of a contract at the space you parked in means that you are entitled to not have to consider one.

 

Even if there was a sign offering a contract,

you had been invited on to the land so you dont have to accept the extra terms

 

. It is the same as going into a shop that has a 50% off most items sale

. the shopkeeper is not obliged to sell you everything at 50% off

and just because you walked in to enquire about sale items

you are not obliged to buy anything

and the shopkeeper certainly cant sue you because you asked about an item and didn't buy it.

 

What to do now-

Well I would get some decent pictures of the sign at the entrance

, the space you were parked in

and any other signs scattered about the place where different from the entrance/ "disabled" bay.

 

There are loads of other things that may be needed in the future but this will do for starters.

 

I am assuming that you are happy to take the long term view on this and challenge it if necessary.

 

These companies take people to court when they have no grounds to because they abuse the legal system and play a numbers game whilst doing so.

Edited March 3, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[cjt]

Yes

I panicked when I received it and just replied.

 

I will go back to the carpark tomorrow and take pictures of the signs.

 

Thanks for your input.

I've been told by people 'just to pay it, it's not worth the stress'

but I can't because I feel they have no right to fine me

and they have breached the equality act 2010 by discriminating against a disabled person just because he doesn't have a blue badge, through no fault of his own ��

[honeybee13]

The guys will help you find your way through this if you listen to their advice.

 

By the way, it isn't a fine, we call the bits of paper speculative invoices.

 

HB

[cjt]

Thank you honeybee.

 

I'm determined to beat them with this and I feel that strong I want to sue them for stress haha.

 

They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this and POPLA obviously doesn't even look at the legalities ��

[ericsbrother]

as long as you realise that this is a long haul,

these parking co's have very little right to claim anything so rely on ignorance, bluff. threats, coercion and sometimes downright lies to earn their few hundred million.

 

The equalities angle is something that you can use but that essentially requires you to sue them rather than as an answer to their demands.

 

That is why we want to gather other information that will defeat their claim ( yes UKPC often takes people to court and are usually the losers when they do) should it get that far.

 

For the moment file away what you have received so far and dont lose it.

UKPC will be demanding more from you in the near future.

 

Can you also post up the ticket you had slapped on your car (with your car reg and their reference no redacted) so we can read the exact reason they say that you owe money?

 

There may well not be such a condition in the signage that forms the contract to actually breach.

 

POPLA dont pick up on things like that

, they are not that independent as they only consider a very limited range of things and Equalities law is one

they definitely dont touch, along with planning law issues.

[dx100uk]

Surely then if there is no such thing as the blue badge scheme on private land, they can't fine me fo not having one.

 

I'm willing to go to court with this, if they can't officially fine for using a scheme that doesn't apply

 

It is not a fine

[dx100uk]

more docs..

[cjt]

Ty dx 100uk

[cjt]

Picture of main car park sign.

 

The one which is showing the back of it is the first one with the terms and conditions on, that's my view as you drive in.

 

There is one across the road but you definitely can't drive in and manage to read those t & c.

 

The picture where I was parked and the sign to my right, which on the day I didn't see because of the van blocking it most likely.

 

They are my view pics.

 

My first sign I actually saw that I could actually read was the entrance one and the small one 'disabled parking ' at the bay.

 

The one to the right is in the loading bay area.

Edited March 5, 2017 by dx100uk

[Surfer01]

No pictures attached. Does the sign specifically state that a BB must be displayed if parking in a disabled bay. If not, then you have already won.

[mikeymack2002]

OK just an observation only here.

 

The sign clearly states 'disabled persons only' now my question is two fold. Where is the photograph showing 'blue badge holders only' secondly the argument really the sign in the latest pdf.

 

It states very clearly disabled parking only! It DOES NOT STATE BLUE BADGE HOLDERS ONLY either. So if your client is in receipt of either DLA / PIP then you have abided by the t&cs of the car park. Because the sign CLEARLY states disabled people only.

 

Earlier posts are correct as the blue badge scheme doest work on private land...

[dx100uk]

post 19 pix

[mikeymack2002]

Thx DX.

 

Again the parking company are breaking the law in regards to the claim under the EA 2010. You cannot use a blue badge on private land as the RTA isn't in force.

 

Secondly a disabled person on private land has exactly the same rights as a blue badge holder. They are both disabled under the law.

 

You must not discriminate by ANY means! A blue badge is not valid on private land therefore it's discrimination under the said act.

 

As EB will agree markings on private car parks are guidance only.

 

Finally my statement stands as according to their sign disabled people may park in that bay as seen in that image. If the sign was correct it would have stated blue badge holders only.

 

In circles I'm afraid but. A picture says a thousand words. In this case disabled people. If this went to court then the DJ must agree unless it can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that bay was for blue badge holders only!