Athens security services PCN now DR+ - Main car park port Isaac PL33 9EU cornwall

[Parkingwars]

Hi 1st go on here help needed please.

 

Back in the summer we parked on a car park in Cornwall in an over flow part as the tarmac area was full. The overflow was also full so we parked on the grass edge.

We paid the appropriate fee

 

 

upon our return had a £130 parking charge notice for parking on the grass.

We caused no blockage etc.

 

 

When we returned all cars on the grass received a notice except my mothers whose car has French plates as she lives in France.

 

I immediately responded to the company and queried

1) why only British plates received the notice

2) what justification there was for this charge as I was not causing a blockage etc and

3) my vehicle had been scratched and I suspected it was their agent who had done this when affixing the sticker to my screen.

 

I also pointed out that the shale area I parked in didn't have designated parking areas and whilst there were signs saying not to park on the grass what damage was I doing.

 

I have ignored letters as I had been told to but now I'm being threatened with court action.

 

Pleeeeeeaaaasssseee help

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

I have moved your post to the Private Parking forum unless you say it is an Penalty Charge.

 

Can you give the answers to this:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

and we can go from there

[ericsbrother]

and also understand that fairness doesnt come into it.

[Parkingwars]

Hi I don't seem to be able to respond on the link

[dx100uk]

why not?

 

 

copy the text here and answer the questions.

[honeybee13]

Hi I don't seem to be able to respond on the link

 

You don't respond on the link, it's to copy and paste into your thread here, along with your answers.

 

HB

[Parkingwars]

For windscreen tickets (NTD) please answer the following questions.

 

1 The date of infringement? 11/08/16

2 Did you appeal to the parking company? Yes

If yes, has there been any response? No

If no, have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK)

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

Had a number of letters don't remember seeing photographic evidence

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) not sure

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

 

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

they didn't reply

 

5 Who is the parking company? Athens security services now getting letters from debt recovery plus

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Main car park port Isaac PL33 9EU

 

For tickets received through the post (Notice to Keeper) please answer the following questions.n/a

Had a number of warning letters from debt recovery plus threatening court action but not replied to them

[honeybee13]

Don't worry about DR+, they have no power over you. The only thing to worry about is a form N1 from the court.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

can you find out if one of the letters was a notice to keeper

and what date you got it please?

 

 

and post up your appeal you sent too.

[emanresu]

can you find out if one of the letters was a notice to keeper

and what date you got it please?

 

and post up your appeal you sent too.

 

This is a car park with an issue that has not been brought out yet. It is owned by the Parish and has a Parking Places Order on it. The Parish continue to use the "we can use what we want" argument but there is significant doubt over this.

 

Suggest you appeal stating the above and see what he says. At the same time check whether the DVLA Keeper database has been accessed. Suspect not as doing so may lead to even more issues

[Parkingwars]

don't worry about dr+, they have no power over you. The only thing to worry about is a form n1 from the court.

 

Hb

 

 

dr+ n1???

[Parkingwars]

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

I am writing with regards to the pcn received whilst on holiday in Cornwall.

 

I have a number of issues I am not happy with and would request some answers and removal of this notice.

 

The first case is that we were in an overflow car park as the main tarmac area was full. This was signposted as an overflow car park and this did not have designated parking areas and therefore it was not possible to determine "designated areas".*

 

The second point I raise is that my parents who were also with me who live in France and therefore their vehicle has a French registration plate were not issued with a ticket (picture attached). Does this mean that your "fines" are only issued to British nationals and therefore a nationalist issue?

 

The third issue is that a scratchet has appeared on our offside front wing which was not present prior to our visit and I believe your person who issued the ticket may have done this as he/she has leant over to attach the ticket.

 

I will obtain quotes for this to be repaired when I return home.

 

The final concern is that you have issued us with an excessive fee for effectively not creating any problem with others using the car park or any emergency vehicles requiring access and therefore I would like to question why you have applied this invoice to my vehicle.

 

This was the appeal I sent along with a picture of my mother's car with no ticket

[Parkingwars]

Ahhh I know what dr+ means now but what is the court thing? Is this likely to be issues?

[ericsbrother]

By parish do you mean parish council or church and parochial church council?

 

Have you copy of the parking places order?

If not someone can be ordered to produce a copy of it so not the end of the world.

 

I would also look into the possibility that the land actually parked on in this instance isnt covered by any permission granted to the parking co to manage as a verge on the overflow is unlikely to have any consideration applied to it by the signage so just a straightfoward trespass matter rather than a parking event and that is nothing to do with Athens

 

As it is too late to appeal to them formally I would hold fire on writing anything until you have a few answers to the points raised regarding Athens' right to claim in the first place.

 

Secondly, I wouldnt use any of your suggested letter anyway as it is all irrelevant to the matter in hand which is now just a contractual matter and should be addressed as such. That can be done when you have the relevant facts.

[dx100uk]

Already appealed it eb

[ericsbrother]

also..

I am struggling to work out where you parked

as the main car park at the beginning of New Rd is a Cornwall county council run car park.

 

 

As emanresu says this will be covered by a traffic order and that will have nowt to do with Athens, even if they manage the place they cant create contracts and make claims in ther own name.

 

 

Same as an estate agent cant accept or reject an offer on your house they are selling for you nor can they invent their own conditions for that sale.

[honeybee13]

Ahhh I know what dr+ means now but what is the court thing? Is this likely to be issues?

 

Debt Recovery Plus as you seem to have worked out. Form N1 is a county court claim form.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Here's a link to the forum stikky with common abbreviations. DR+ aren't there, I'll add them.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?168275-Posting-in-this-Forum-and-A-Z-of-Motoring-Terms

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

yes, so no point writing again. They have destroyed any chance of legal action as well.

Already appealed it eb

[Parkingwars]

This is a car park with an issue that has not been brought out yet. It is owned by the Parish and has a Parking Places Order on it. The Parish continue to use the "we can use what we want" argument but there is significant doubt over this.

 

Suggest you appeal stating the above and see what he says. At the same time check whether the DVLA Keeper database has been accessed. Suspect not as doing so may lead to even more issues

My guess is that they have been to dvla to get my address as we are receiving letters.

When you say a parking place's order what is this please

 

yes, so no point writing again. They have destroyed any chance of legal action as well.

 

Is that because they haven't replied to my original email?

 

also..

I am struggling to work out where you parked

as the main car park at the beginning of New Rd is a Cornwall county council run car park.

.

 

 

As emanresu says this will be covered by a traffic order and that will have nowt to do with Athens, even if they manage the place they cant create contracts and make claims in ther own name.

 

 

Same as an estate agent cant accept or reject an offer on your house they are selling for you nor can they invent their own conditions for that sale.

 

I'm not too familiar with the area but as you come into port Isaac the car park is on the right hand side. You have to walk down a hill quite a way to get into the village

 

By parish do you mean parish council or church and parochial church council?

 

Have you copy of the parking places order?

If not someone can be ordered to produce a copy of it so not the end of the world.

 

I would also look into the possibility that the land actually parked on in this instance isnt covered by any permission granted to the parking co to manage as a verge on the overflow is unlikely to have any consideration applied to it by the signage so just a straightfoward trespass matter rather than a parking event and that is nothing to do with Athens

 

As it is too late to appeal to them formally I would hold fire on writing anything until you have a few answers to the points raised regarding Athens' right to claim in the first place.

 

Secondly, I wouldnt use any of your suggested letter anyway as it is all irrelevant to the matter in hand which is now just a contractual matter and should be addressed as such. That can be done when you have the relevant facts.

Is the parking places order the original ticket? If so yes I've got it. I didn't mention anything about parish so not too sure what you mean there?

I emailed them back in Aug. And have heard nothing but threats of court action etc. They didn't reply to my email. So do you think I should not contact them again?

 

can you find out if one of the letters was a notice to keeper

and what date you got it please?

 

 

and post up your appeal you sent too.

I'm not sure about the notice to Keeper I'm afraid. I did receive an initial letter after they had contacted dvla then it was passed onto the debt recovery lot

 

also..

I am struggling to work out where you parked

as the main car park at the beginning of New Rd is a Cornwall county council run car park.

 

 

As emanresu says this will be covered by a traffic order and that will have nowt to do with Athens, even if they manage the place they cant create contracts and make claims in ther own name.

 

 

Same as an estate agent cant accept or reject an offer on your house they are selling for you nor can they invent their own conditions for that sale.

It's on the right as you come into port Isaac. You have to park there and walk down a hill into the village if that helps

[emanresu]

Send an email to the Parish ([email protected]) and let them know you have a ticket

 

Ask them

 

1. Is there a Parking Places Order on this car park or has it been lawfully withdrawn

 

2. If there is and it has not been lawfully withdrawn, why is AS Parking issuing tickets on site

 

Come back when they have replied.

[ericsbrother]

we are talking about the same car park then,

the PO's description is not helpful to those who have never been there and rely on looking at a map.

 

 

Emanescu,s point is a very pertinent one for several reasons

so do send that email and dont add any waffle to the 2 points raised.

 

The POFA makes reference to "private land" and"relevant land" and spell out what isnt relevant land for the purpose of the Act Land covered by a Parking Places Order is not relevant land

 

 

so AS cannot apply to the DVLA for your keeper details and keep within the law and that is ne of the reasons you should never contact a parking co about a ticket slapped on your car and make them do the running.

 

 

Their claim is a nonsense as they werent offering you anything at the time and they have no authority to do so but it would have been another fatal blow to their claim if you forced them to go along with the protocols of the POFA and then got them for not having the right to dos o.

[Parkingwars]

Hi sorry for the late reply I've had to create a new account as I couldn't log back in!!

I've had an email back there is a parking places order on the car park. I don't really understand what this means. Can you explain please?

[Oddfellow]

If you use a search engine to look for Cornwall County Council (Off-street Parking Places) Order, you'll be able to download a copy. It assumes that the driver is the owner (which is defined in the Traffic Management Act 2004 as the registered keeper) unless demonstrated to the contrary.

Interestingly, while the Order allows the Council to issue a Penalty Charge Notice to the person in charge of the vehicle, or the person "who appears to the Council to be the Owner", it doesn't make provision for how they acquire this information. As EB has said, they are not allowed to use any powers under POFA as it is not relevant land. I don't know if any other legislation covers this point, or gives you a loophole to exploit; the experts will be able to advise.

 

 

Another couple of restrictions imposed by the Order are that you are not allowed to use any part of the vehicle for sleeping or eating. If they were to enforce that, I can see the tourist trade in Port Isaac going down the toilet! Oh, and no ball games in the car park. Is there anything in law to say that if a clause within an Act, Regulation or Order is not enforced, it lapses??? Wonder how many parents have had PCNs for their kiddies having a kick-about?!

 

 

HTH

[Surfer01]

If you use a search engine to look for Cornwall County Council (Off-street Parking Places) Order, you'll be able to download a copy. It assumes that the driver is the owner (which is defined in the Traffic Management Act 2004 as the registered keeper) unless demonstrated to the contrary.

Interestingly, while the Order allows the Council to issue a Penalty Charge Notice to the person in charge of the vehicle, or the person "who appears to the Council to be the Owner", it doesn't make provision for how they acquire this information. As EB has said, they are not allowed to use any powers under POFA as it is not relevant land. I don't know if any other legislation covers this point, or gives you a loophole to exploit; the experts will be able to advise.

 

 

Another couple of restrictions imposed by the Order are that you are not allowed to use any part of the vehicle for sleeping or eating. If they were to enforce that, I can see the tourist trade in Port Isaac going down the toilet! Oh, and no ball games in the car park. Is there anything in law to say that if a clause within an Act, Regulation or Order is not enforced, it lapses??? Wonder how many parents have had PCNs for their kiddies having a kick-about?!

 

 

HTH

 

Am I missing something as the OP was issued with a Parking Chareg Notice and not a Penalty Charge Notice so the above Order probably would not apply anyway. This seems to indicate that the land was private and not council land. I wonder who is the owner of the land?