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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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2 hours ago, Conniff said:

I haven't mentioned anything about vote fraud, only you have so you show us the proof there has never been any fraudulent votes cast 'ever' ?

Ah, I didn't think you could.

 

 

But is it right for 3.5 million people to have to get photo ID - which they have to pay for - when you can count the numbers of proven voter fraud cases each year on the fingers of one hand?

 

You just carry on reading the super left-wing Guardian

 

I would post links from the Telegraph but they have a paywall, the Guardian doesn't.

  • Like 1

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Paywalled - but headline summary is there to see (which is as far as Brexiters tend to get anyway)

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/02/28/voter-plans-risk-us-style-voter-suppression-warn-civil-rights/

 

"Introducing mandatory voter ID in Britain risks “US-style voter suppression”

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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OK Con, You've failed miserably on that

How about answering:

 

whats the very very simple, honourable and quality solution to the UK/NI/RoI-EU border food issue which simply:

* actually meets with a number of headline assurances of the brexiters in the Brexit campaign and since,

* would deliver on that headline claim to the british people

* means there wont need to be a food border either in the Irish sea or on the Island of Ireland and would minimise checks right down

* still allows the UK to sign deals elsewhere that meet that quite basic, simple and already claimed assurance,  and deals that dont in other areas?

* Might go some way towards renewing so worth of the Uk's word on International agreements (provided they didnt renege of course)

 

??

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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What the hell are you on about now.

 

Why shouldn't you have ID to go and cast a vote, you can't even get a parcel from the post office without ID, most things require ID so why not to vote?

 

Also please explain how it will stop people voting,??

 

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4 minutes ago, Conniff said:

Also please explain how it will stop people voting,??

 

 

Already have Con, Already have

 

Did you present your approved photo id before posting that as you claim its not an issue?

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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Share on other sites

No you have not given an explanation how it will stop people.

 

And yes you do have to have photo id for the post office, i've just had to collect a parcel and it required photo id

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2 minutes ago, Conniff said:

No you have not given an explanation how it will stop people.

 

And yes you do have to have photo id for the post office, i've just had to collect a parcel and it required photo id

 

No you dont Con - credit or debit card will do quite nicely or even a recent bill

 

 

Voter ID plans risk 'US-style voter suppression', warn civil rights groups American civil rights groups say mandatory voter ID shuts out marginalised voters By Tony Diver, Political Corresponden

- Telegraph

Edited by tobyjugg2
  • Like 1

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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22 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

 

No voter fraud in any significant amount at all and most certainly nothing warranting any changes to the existing clearly very effective process and mechanisms, let alone a compulsory requirment for photo id being imposed upon the nation.

 

else by your disingenuous illogic connniff, you should present such photo ID to buy an ice cream - due to the insignificant 'potential' for fraud in that process.

 

and of course as you support it - also present your fully Johnson validated photo id before each posting on a forum ... due to the far more likely event of disingenuous and/or false/fraudulent statements by you.

So you are saying 'you' know the exact number of people who voted fraudulently, why don't you tell the authorities and publish those number here please ?

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2 minutes ago, Conniff said:

So you are saying 'you' know the exact number of people who voted fraudulently, why don't you tell the authorities and publish those number here please ?

 

The Tiny, insignificant official figures were linked here by HB,  weren't they CON

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Conniff said:

I haven't mentioned anything about vote fraud, only you have so you show us the proof there has never been any fraudulent votes cast 'ever' ?

Ah, I didn't think you could.

 

 

23 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

 

23 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Lets not forget that voter fraud is the justification claimed by the Tories for the need for compulsory voter photo id

(although they of course carfully word it 'potential' to avoid being outright liars rather than simply being 'disingenuous)

 

Cabinet Office: "Showing identification to vote is a reasonable approach to combat the inexcusable potential for voter fraud in our current system and strengthen its integrity."

 

From the links above:

"In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.

Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions.

 

In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions."

 

 

 

Hows that CON man

 

as stated

 

From the links above:

"In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.

Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions.

In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions."

 

Absolutely nothing to justify even the risk of disenfranchisement of voters, let alone the actuality

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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Share on other sites

I mentioned that ID cards would be needed to place a vote, in your attempt to get one over as you always do, you brought up fraud.

 

You then said millions would be stopped from voting because they didn't have the id and I said the council will issue so there is no need at all for anyone not

to have id if they wish to bote.

 

This is page 187, that's 187 pages of you whinging and saying you know everything and everyone else is a fool and knows nothing. step back my friend and take a look at yourself

 

P.S.  Evidence, that doesn't mean there wasn't any.  Thousands of criminals get away with their crime because there was no evidence.

Edited by Conniff
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11 minutes ago, Conniff said:

I mentioned that ID cards would be needed to place a vote, in your attempt to get one over as you always do, you brought up fraud.

 

That is the populist minister claimed justification for imposing the photo ID for voting as already linked, now isnt it CON?

 

Heres the example used of the many available linked for you yet again CON

Cabinet Office claim: "Showing identification to vote is a reasonable approach to combat the inexcusable potential for voter fraud in our current system and strengthen its integrity."

 

need pictures CON?

 

Even handcock admits its as near to a none issue as you can get

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/matt-hancock-voter-fraud-photo-id-b1845363.html

Matt Hancock admits only 6 voter fraud cases at last election, as protests grow over ‘photo ID’ crackdown

 

The Electoral Commission warned young people, people from ethnic minorities, women and the elderly were most likely to be penalised.

Edited by tobyjugg2
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The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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so come on CON

Whats the justification for requiring photo ID for voting?

 

We have demonstrated that the govs own figures show that fraud is negligible under the existing system - aka it works VERY well as is,  and certainly nothing to warrant a change squandering even more tax payer money than they already have and are.

 

Even the populists only allude to the vague claims of potential for some sort of undefined fraud maybe oneday possibly not against the laws of physics  .. even if its demonstrably NOT the case.

 

So what and where is the solid cost benefit justification for spending even a penny of tax payer money on this?

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

Link to post
Share on other sites

Because you can't prove a point doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Just do as you are told for a change and get an ID or don't vote - simple.

 

All this crap about Johnson didn't do any good at these elections so continuing with stories to try and shame the government won't bring them down either.

 

Come up with sensible policies, things people want instead of continually whinging, 187 pages of it on this thread alone, you really must have the saddest life,

perhaps you should move in with HB and then you can cuss in the living room over coffee.

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54 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Well well whoop de doo

 

How much debt is the UK in?

  • £1,685 billion is owed by individuals in the UK (September 2020).
  • On average every Brit spent £865 on interest alone last year.
  • 280 people are declared bankrupt every day in the UK (August to October 2020).
  • £31,798 average debt per adult in the UK (August 2020).
  • There is over £1.95 trillion public sector debt in the UK (May 2020).
  • This is equal to 100% of gross domestic product (GDP) – the first time that debt as a percentage of GDP has exceeded 100% since the financial year ending March 1963.

Shows he is a normal like person 

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So Conn (despite no approved ID being shown by you):

 

1. What and where is the solid cost benefit justification for spending even a penny of tax payer money on photo ID for voting?

Even without the governments own stats on the lack of ANY insignificant voter fraud under the existing system?

 

2. What is the simple, already promised in the Brexit campaign and beyond, solution to the food deliveries UK/NI and UK/EU and NI/EIRE which would still allow the UK to negotiate external deals?

 

Forbes:

Official data shows just two people received a conviction or police caution for impersonating another voter in 2019—a year that featured a U.K.-wide general election

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Conniff said:

Well well whoop de doo

 

How much debt is the UK in?

  • £1,685 billion is owed by individuals in the UK (September 2020).
  • On average every Brit spent £865 on interest alone last year.
  • 280 people are declared bankrupt every day in the UK (August to October 2020).
  • £31,798 average debt per adult in the UK (August 2020).
  • There is over £1.95 trillion public sector debt in the UK (May 2020).
  • This is equal to 100% of gross domestic product (GDP) – the first time that debt as a percentage of GDP has exceeded 100% since the financial year ending March 1963.

Shows he is a normal like person 

 

Could you post a link to your information please, Conniff? I'll add it to your post.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

 

 

They'll be breaking in the flat an taking a roll or two (overheads and fees) of his golden wallpaper off the wall to pay it ...

 

He'll need a few more walls full of golden paper for the 'public sector' debt that CON referred (figure is questionable but at the low end of the ballpark figure) - as thats  part of Johnson and Sunacks sovereign/national debt after routing money to their cronies.

 

So CON posts appallingly high JOHNSON GENERATED DEBT AS AN EXCUSE FOR ... JOHNSON GENERATED DEBT

lol

 

Would that be deception .. or cluelessness CON?

The populists normally claim cluelessness when caught doon't they?

I was unaware that I was spending that much of other peoples money your honour, and also unaware that much of what I was spending it on was not going to be delivered.

I trusted my ,mates with your money. and they did an astonishingly good job of taking it.

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Conniff said:

Because you can't prove a point doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

 

You'll be booking in for your dengue hemorrhagic fever treatment then will you?

 

 

While you wait perhaps you can answer the outstanding questions?

 

1. What and where is the solid cost benefit justification for spending even a penny of tax payer money on photo ID for voting?

Even without the governments own stats on the lack of ANY insignificant voter fraud under the existing system?

 

2. What is the simple, already promised in the Brexit campaign and beyond, solution to the food deliveries UK/NI and UK/EU and NI/EIRE which would still allow the UK to negotiate external deals?

 

David Davis :

voter ID plans are “pointless… a waste of time… (and) an illiberal solution in pursuit of a non-existent problem,” as he called on the government to abandon the “expensive” proposals.

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes

with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

 

10 years to save the Vest

After Truss lost the shirt off the UKs back in 49 days

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