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    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
    • Tell your son and think on this. He can pay the £160  and have no further worries from them. If he read POFA  Scedule 4 he would find out that if he went to Court and lost which is unlikely on two counts at least [1] they don't do Court and 2] they know they would lose in Court] the most he would be liable to pay them is £100 or whatever the amount on the sign says. He is not liable for the admin charges as that only applies to the driver-perhaps.If he kept his nerve, he would find out that he does not owe them a penny and that applies to the driver as well. But we do need to see the signage at the entrance to the car park and around the car park as well as any T&Cs on the payment meter if there is one. He alone has to work out whether it is worth taking a few photographs to help avoid paying a single penny to these crooks as well as receiving letters threatening him with Court , bailiffs  etc trying to scare him into paying money he does not owe. They know they cannot take him to Court. They know he does not owe them a penny. But they are hoping he does not know so he pays them. If he does decide to pay, tell him to wait as eventually as a last throw of the dice they play Mister Nice Guy and offer a reduction. Great. Whatever he pays them it will be far more than he owes as their original PCN is worthless. Read other threads where our members have been ticketed for not having a permit. [We know so little about the situation that we do not know if he has a permit and forgot to display it. ]
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Wi3347

Excel/BW claimform - PCN Swansea SA1 2012

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Hello everyone. This is my first thread.

 

Today (17/08/16) I have received a letter from a company called BW Legal,

they are very popular name on this forum it seems!

 

In mid 2012 there was a fire at my home and my home insurance paid for my to live at a premier in for about 2 months while the house was repaired / renovated.

 

The hotel carpark was run by excel parking and was a pay and display.

 

It was about £9 ish per 24 hour Period and had to be paid in coins only.

One day i over slept a bit and I was about 30 mins outside of my 24 hour period.

 

Fair enough. based on the fact I had been parking there every single day for 30 or 40 days.

My vehicle was quite distinctive as it had a huge Angry bird on the dash.

 

I thought based on the fact I had already paid hundreds of pounds

and always had a ticket the attendant would give me A bit of time as it was the same guy everyday.

But obviously not.

 

I didn't pay the ticket as i think it's completely unfair and excessive to expect someone to pay £100 for 30 minutes without a ticket when I purchased back to back 24 hour tickets And renewed my ticket after coming down and finding the PCN.

 

Low and behold,

4 years later I have received a letter from BW Legal saying I owe them £154.

£100 for the initial parking ticket and £54 for their legal costs and if they don't receive this in 16 days they have been asked by their client to start legal proceedings.

 

This is the first letter I have got from anyone and I was quite surprised to get it so many years later.

 

What advice would people give at this stage?

 

Ignor? Send a debt denial letter? Any other advice?

 

Thanks in advance.

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sent the denial letter

 

read the letter properly I doubt it say their client has asked them to start court in 16days?

 

doesn't matter really

you'll probably get a claimform as 1000's have already

just make sure you defend all

and they'll give up I bet


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As this is "mid-2012", it sounds like it is pre-POFA. The problem with that is that if you were there every day for 30 to 40 days, could you reasonably be expected to remember who was the driver, and therefore the keeper v driver dilemma might not hold up?

 

 

The experts will doubtless advise.

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They know nothing of the circumstance surrounding the event,

they have just taken a load of old paperwork out of the recycling bin and posted it out instead.

 

Pre POFA so a short letter saying that as the registered keeper of the vehicle in question you have no liability in this matter and you dont know who the driver was at the time.

 

They are sending out hundreds of these fishing letters in the hope some will pay up

and others drop themselves in it and make a claim possible.

 

Do not explain or justify yourself in any way,

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Thanks for the advice so far.

 

 

I will send them a short letter tomorrow just as you've said above.

 

 

I will post a draft of it on here before I send it just for people's opinions

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This is the letter i intend to send, if anyone has any suggestions on this i should add / take away please let me know, thanks

 

"18 August 2016,

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I am writing to you with regards to the letter I received from you with the above reference dated 12 August 2016.

 

Your letter makes reference to a parking charge issued over 4 years ago. As the registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time I have no liability in the matter as I cannot recall who was driving at the time.

 

I have no intention of paying the money demanded by your client and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

 

Yours faithfully"

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and you dont know who the driver was at the time

not

as I cannot recall who was driving at the time.


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you must make the simple point that there is no keeper liability and you dont know who was driving at the time.

Anything else leaves it open to assumption and further letter tennis.

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you must make the simple point that there is no keeper liability and you dont know who was driving at the time.

Anything else leaves it open to assumption and further letter tennis.

 

Ok no worries. So more like

 

"18 August 2016,

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I am writing to you with regards to the letter I received from you with the above reference dated 12 August 2016.

 

Your letter makes reference to a parking chargeicon issued over 4 years ago. As the registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time I have no liability in the matter and I do not know who was driving the vehicle at the time.

 

Yours faithfully"

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Taking advice i have shortened it to

 

"18 August 2016,

Sir / Madam,

I write with regards to a letter I received from you with the above reference dated 12 August 2016.

Your letter makes reference to a parking charge issued over 4 years ago. There is no registered keeper liability, therefore I have no liability in the matter and I do not know who was driving the vehicle at the time.

 

Yours faithfully"

 

I will post this off and update this thread if/when i hear anything back, which i suspect i will!

 

Thanks.

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Hello everyone!

 

I have received a letter from them today saying

 

"We refer to your letter dated 18/08/16 the contents of which have been duly noted.

 

We note from your correspondence that you state you were not the driver at the time of the PCN. As details of the driver had not been forthcoming to suggest otherwise our client in the absence of the drivers details reasonably presumes you with the driver and we refer your case to Elliot V Loake (1982)

 

We confirm that your position has been noted and we will now seek our clients instructions on initiating County Court proceedings.

 

Yours faithfully

BW Lwgal"

 

As we can see from the letter I sent them I didn't state I was not the drive I stated I don't know who was driving at the time. Is that worth replying to them or shall i ignor at this point? Thanks in advance!

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usual rubbish then:-)

 

you stated your case leave it there


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usual rubbish then:-)

 

you stated your case leave it there

 

Ok, do you not think it may be of use to write back saying that I never state I wasn't the driver but that I do not know who was driving? Or is that working against me?

 

I'm also wondering if it's worth writing to them saying as this is pre pofa there is no keeper liability? Anyone have thoughts on them or shall I just leave it?

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no deal with those if/when it ever gets to the WS stage in a court claim.

letter tennis at this stage will change nothing.

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

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Ok I will wait till I here anything further and update. Thank you for the help so far. No doubt this forum saves people a lot of time and stress. Much obliged.

 

What is a WS stage? You will have to forgive me for being completely in the dark on this whole thing

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witness statement after allocation etc etc

IF it ever gets that far


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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In short,

BW cant do anything unless their client instructs them to and then they only do what they are paid to do.

 

Will excel be stupid enough to try their luck?

I doubt it as both they and BW know that Elliott v Loake is irrelevant to this matter

but like threatening a Norwich Pharmacal order to force you to name the driver

they think that by quoting these cases you will be so scared or impressed that you will now pay up.

 

Funny how when these things to get to court

they never ever quote the same case law they use in the threatograms.

 

likewise no point quoting the PoFA,

they know that it isnt applicable and there is no keeper liability,

 

that is why they use the shotgun approach to other case law.

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Hopefully they will think better of it and that will be that! I will update if I get anything further! Hopefully not as excel should be aware of the keeper liability side.

 

Thanks!

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slight update since then.

 

 

I received another letter from them in October saying that it was my last chance to settle before their client WILL instruct them to take legal action.

 

 

Haven't heard anything since, but if i do get some kind of court papers through i will be back in touch.

 

Thanks everyone.

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I instruct my dog to sit

if it does is another matter....................


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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They can instruct and wave their willies around as much as they like, it is pre POFA and there is no keeper liability. No chance they would win if it went anywhere near court.

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How do they know what their client will do if they havent already been told?

Psychic powers?

 

 

BWL hope that their client takes that step as they get paid whether Excel win or lose.

Trev has lost a few of these more speculative claims on no keeper liability alone so he wont be in a hurry to throw more money at it.

 

slight update since then.

 

I received another letter from them in October saying that it was my last chance to settle before their client WILL instruct them to take legal action.

 

Haven't heard anything since, but if i do get some kind of court papers through i will be back in touch.

 

Thanks everyone.

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it was a surprise when it came through the door after 4 years!

 

nothing further from them so far. Will update if i have anything else.

 

Thanks

Regards

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as post 13


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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