Mental Health Concern

[Noebys]

We live in a private block of retirement apartments with no assisted help

and a visiting manager employed to look after the building.

 

 

A mentally ill man has been living in an apartment owned by his sister.

For the past 6 months this poor chap has become violent and delusional.

 

 

He has caused damage and has threatened and terrorised elderly residents.

He also exposed himself and made many lewd comments.

He also was involved in an incident where he had a gun and threatened residents, paramedics and the police with it.

 

 

4 armed policemen, three others and a dog handler eventually disarmed him (it was a replica gun)

and he was detained under section 2 of the mental health act.

After one month this was upgraded to section 3.

 

His sister has put the apartment up for sale with a view to finding the poor chap more suitable accommodation.

 

It has left many of the residents mentally traumatised and nervous.

Some have had to leave for a while and some are under their doctors for nerves and heart problems.

Some will still not even leave their apartment.

 

We have now been told that he is to come back under section 17,

initially for an assessment with a view to returning.

 

Obviously residents are now even more terrified after assuming he would not be back

and more suitable accommodation would have been found for him during the 10 weeks he has been absent.

 

His sister has told us she cannot look after him because she is scared of him

and there is not enough room for her and her husband and brother in their three bedroomed house.

The sister is breaking the rules of the lease by allowing an unsuitable tenant in her property

who cannot look after himself.

 

Our managing agent will not get involved,

The police have met us and explained that we cannot lock him out.

 

Our question is

what rights do we have,

His sister has refused to house him with her but it appears we cannot refuse to house him with us

even though he does not own the property.

Why can his sister do this and yet we cannot,

 

We fully understand that there has to be anti discrimination laws

but this appears to be discriminating against us.

 

The mental health unit have assured us that they feel he is OK to come back.

If that is the case, he should be OK to live with his sister.

 

Where are we going wrong with out thoughts and is there anything we can do to safeguard the health

of the other 70 residents who live here?

[maroondevo52]

Hi Noebys,

 

Sorry to hear the troubles you are having, I've moved this thread to our Residential Lettings forum as you may receive more help there.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

[stu007]

Hi

 

This is such a difficult position to be in especially after what has happened.

 

Now I am not defending this individuals actions but as we are unaware of there mental health condition there could be reasons that they may have reacted the way they did i.e.

 

If on medication and this has been changed and they have reacted badly to it or

 

there has been a change to there daily routine.

 

this is just an example as I am no expert in this area but what the Mental Health Unit are trying to do is help/assit/treat this individual so that they can integrate back into the community.

 

Have the Residents had any meetings with the Police/Mental Health Unit to air their concerns? ( I think it may be worth considering contacting both so the residents

can air their concerns and hopefully they will ease those concerns)

 

Now you say they are coming back under section 17 is "Leave of absence when detained in hospital" see link below for more on the different sections:

http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/mental_health_act#Leave_of_absence_when_detained_in_hospital_ndash_Section_17

 

Now I know you mentioned the Managing Agent but do you have the Freeholders details who has Employed them?

 

Also the clause in the lease you refer to could you possibly type that clause here (minus any personal details)?

 

Something the Residents need to check is that they are not getting invoiced by the Managing Agent for any repairs to i.e. communal areas caused by this individual.

 

What the Residents not as a group but individually need to do is keep a written log of every single incident no matter how small and as well as logging it at the same time report to Managing Agent, Police (so it's logged), Mental Health Unit & Local Councils Anti Social Behaviour Team. (The PDF below may be of use)

Incident Log-with form fields -----.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I do feel for the other residents.

 

stu007 knows far more about property issues than I do, but I had a couple of thoughts. Is there a minimum age for people who buy/rent these apartments and if so, is this man over the required age?

 

Possibly not relevant, but why does the sister own an apartment in a retirement block as well as having a house?

 

HB

[Noebys]

Thank you for your reply.

There is a minimum age and this man is over that age. However he has a diagnosed mental age of 9 according to his sister.

 

The story that the sister has told us is that when Mum and Dad died money was left in a trust for this poor man. So his sister bought the apartment in a independent living retirement rather than seeking the help he needs! The apartment is in her name.

 

His sister has now agreed it is not the right place for him and has put the flat on the market. Although everyone agrees it is not right for him, the Responsible Clinician in the Mental Heath Department has deemed that it is the correct place for him to return to, even though residents will unfortunately be hostile towards him!

[Noebys]

Thank you for your reply

 

I think without exception all residents here feel desperately sorry for this poor man. Sorry to put it bluntly but he has been 'dumped' here by his sister without any thought for his welfare, or ours. There may well be changes in his life that caused this, but what happens when changes happen again?

 

As detailed to Honeybee13 he is not an owner or a tenant with a shorthold lease. He is living free in his sisters flat in an independent living retirement development (which his trust paid for!) and has a diagnosed mental age of 9.

 

I agree that what the Mental Health Unit are trying to do is help/assist/treat this individual so that they can integrate back into the community. But I think they may need treatment themselves if they think that putting him back into a hostile situation is the way to do it! What better way than to put him back with his sister who has a house large enough to accommodate him. She appears to have the right to say 'No' on the basis she is afraid of him. Why can't we have this same right? His sister has now agreed that this is not the correct place for him and has put the flat on the market. So to integrate him back in the community, what better way than for him to live with her until a more appropriate place is found for him?

 

The most traumatised residents have had meetings with the police, but have not been offered victim support or anything similar. The Mental Health unit will not talk to us, only the police.

 

We have contacted both Managing Agents and Freeholders (both of whom are well known national concerns) with, as yet, no response.

 

The part of the lease that we refer to is copied below:

 

(2) Other than to an assignee or underlessee who shall be over the age of fifty five years at the date of any such assignment underletting or parting with or sharing of possession of the whole of the Dwelling with the exception of a married couple where one spouse only may be under the age of fifty five years pror.ided that such spouse is over the age of fifty years and who shall if required by the Lessor produce to the Lessor a medical certificate indicating that such assignee or underlessee is physically fit and capable of carrying out the obligations and requirements of the Lessee under this Lease save that the Lessor reserves the right to grant consent on such conditions as it may deem necessary to the assignment or underletting of the whole of the Dwelling to a person under the age of fifty five years for the continuous occupation thereof by a person or persons older than that age but subject to the proviso as to married couples above mentioned

 

Thank you for the reminder of checking the invoices from the Managing Agent. We are told we are not being charged, but we not got a copy of who paid it.

 

The written log form is very useful - thankyou. There have been logs kept of incidents but this will formalise it.

[Noebys]

Sorry - think I replied to you on Honeybee13!

[stu007]

Couple of other links for you:

 

Solve a residential property dispute: https://www.gov.uk/housing-tribunals/overview

 

First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber): https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber