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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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Welcome says My £12k CCA Regulated secured Loan will now become a mortgage!


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They all try to shift the blame. FOS will say the Broker is the company you need to reclaim PPI from as they sold it to you. Welcome are probably right to tell you to 'go away' and not provide any details.

 

From what I can see, Dial4ALoan was operated as a separate company to Welcome, but within the Cattles group, hence the Batley address. A&T Finance are still running, with a rather poor website at http://www.atfinance.co.uk/ I cannot see any link to them from Welcome/Cattles so fail to understand why they had a copy of your application, unless it was referred to Welcome and they passed you over to Dial4ALoan who then acted as broker.

 

As long as you've given all the details to the FOS they should be able to sort something out - eventually. They will already know that both companies were owned by Cattles.

 

As for underwriting - I have no idea, sorry.

Be good to those who give you advice that helps - click the star to give them your thanks by way of a reputation credit.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Just an up-date,

I have today received a further response from Welcome stating that the rejected A & T Finance application

and was passed to Dial 4 and quote the following extract from letter :-

 

" We no longer have an underwriting department due to the restructure of our business

and therefore any information regarding the application is difficult to obtain.

 

I have had to rely on colleagues who worked in the business in 2003.

We can assume that that the rejected A & T Finance application was passed to Dial 4 A Loan, who worked closely with us.

Dial 4 A Loan submitted your details to us, using information provided by A & T Finance.

 

We have no details or records that any commission was paid to a broker on this occasion (in which I do have as part of SAR ?)

and please be aware that this represents my final response to your complaint. "

 

I will obviously forward letter to FOS but

 

in the meantime do I need to be trying to establish or locate details of any other relationships

i.e. between Underwriter Aviva who was regulated at the time of sale and Welcome / Dial 4 A Loan ?

 

Should I approach Underwriters asking for confirmation that a fee was paid for new business ?

 

As mentioned above, I do have copies of Dial 4 A Loan commission and brokerage sheets with Welcome Finance.

 

Any further help would be very much appreciated.

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I sent a SAR to Welcome Finance and they responded within the 40 days but there was various information missing.

So I contacted Welcome requesting details or an explanation as to why they cannot be provided.

 

I received a Final Response reply yesterday in which they apologise and due to an internal error some of the information was not originally submitted but now has.

 

 

Also they quote that any documents that are no longer stored have been securely disposed of

- should they have provided some sort of recording confirming this ?

 

Welcome finally state in the letter that they are sorry that I only received part of my DSAR

and that details were unclear and for that reason they have upheld my complaint

but if not satisfied with their response I have six months to refer complaint to FOS.

 

Sorry for what maybe some stupid questions but what next ?

If complaint has been upheld am I entitled to any compensation for time and effort etc involved ?

If so do I reply requesting this or do I report Welcome to ICO

and submit a complaint to FOS in respect of failure to comply with DPA ?

 

Any comments would be appreciated.

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Any complaint regarding incomplete data from an SAR will need to go to the Information Commissioner.

 

I do not think that the FOS would deal with this.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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You could I guess, send a further letter to their Data Controller or a formal complaint to their Head office and advise that you think their response is disingenuous. That you have expended time and energy in dealing with this matter and at the very least would expect them to compensate you for extra time and postage you have had to invest in by their lack of due diligence.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Sounds like a plan to me :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have various ongoing complaints with Welcome / FOS in which some have been resolved

but others have not, in respect of a Secured loan taken out in November 2003.

 

One of the complaints was in respect of a discrepancy in loan amounts mentioned on statements

in which apparently was due to migration of IT system error

and the matter has now been clarified and FOS were advised.

 

I still had an outstanding issue regarding refund of added amounts and interest,

in respect of some irregular payments that appeared on my statements I

n which Welcome were unable to clarify and redress of costs / time and effort.

 

This morning I have received the attached letter from FOS and wondered if anyone else has received the same.

 

if any experts on this site could kindly have a look and advise if this will now affect my ongoing complaint including my other Payment Protection Insurance mis-selling issue.

 

Apologies for state of letter but this is how I received it :shock:

 

Thanks

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Exactly where I'm coming from and I have put the question to FOS and now awaiting a further reply.

 

 

told FOS that they must have been aware of the situation and find it unfair that Welcome can deny all knowledge of mis-selling without a valid explanation (stalling tac-tic I know)

then passed to FOS who in turn take forever in a day to even investigate it, let alone make a decision !

 

My first impression is that everything's been put on hold but I will post up once response received.

 

I just wanted to give everyone the heads up who may have any pending complaints with Welcome

and if they have anyone has already received anything similar.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have today received FOS adjudicator's letter rejecting my PPI complaint in which I have attached copies of details received.

 

Please could any experts on here kindly have a look and advise if it is still worthwhile referring to the Ombudsman

on the basis of the comments made ?

 

My main concern is that FOS mention that they have listened to a call recording between Dial4ALoan and my OH

in which when I had originally requested details via various SAR's

there was no evidence or any record details of any conversation ?

Can I ask FOS for details or do I need to go back to Dial4ALoan requesting information ?

 

There is also another concern with the copy of details provided regarding Secured Loan amounts sheet,

in which was also not previously provided, in which is not even on any headed paper ????

 

This has been a very frustrating complaint with all concerned, including FOS but am I fighting a dead duck ?

I would appreciate any assistance in providing a response or any advice on what to do next.

 

Also I am somewhat confused, as the actual credit agreement with PPI is actually from Welcome / Progressive

and not Dial4ALoan and therefore would have thought that they would have been responsible for miss-selling ?

 

FOS also mention about no evidence of relationship between broker / lender (Welcome)

or any agency relationship between all parties involved including Underwriters

- How can this be established ?

 

Sorry but has anyone else experienced the same comments from foslink3.gif re agency relationship between broker, lender and Underwriters

or possibly assist me in if there is anything else I could possibly do as a last resort.

FOS adjudicator has granted extension for their final decision and referral to ombudsman till 15 Sept.

 

I have been trying to search forums but have had no luck tracing a similar complaint situation.

 

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

Also I am somewhat confused, as the actual credit agreement with PPI is actually from Welcome / Progressive and not Dial4ALoan and therefore would have thought that they would have been responsible for miss-selling ?

 

FOS also mention about no evidence of relationship between broker / lender (Welcome) or any agency relationship between all parties involved including Underwriters

- How can this be established ?

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ok i'll look at things later

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Many thanks dx and much appreciated.

 

Just an after thought

 

how can Underwriter AVIVA not be responsible if they were regulated at the time of sale ?

Surely they should not have been dealing / or accepting business from any parties that were not regulated

and is a breach of their code of conduct at the time ?

 

I had already sent a separate complaint to Underwriters in which was originally rejected by them.

I am just trying to seek another option to pursue but believe that their final response was submitted on the 15th February 2014

(did pass details onto FOS around then as part of Welcome complaint),

so time is at a premium at moment.

 

Even though FOS have dismissed the above, I wondered if I could still address further with some assistance from any Forum experts in order to fight my case.

 

As mentioned that time is running out should I e-mail the FOS person that I have been dealing with asap mentioning my change of tact ?

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Cheers dx

 

I've just had a look and doesn't seem promising and my faith in FOS at the moment has diminished !

 

Anyway I have had to submit another complaint yesterday with FOS in respect of Underwriters Aviva,

so here's to another 2+ years of toing and throing :x

 

I will also have to keep searching other sites for any up-dates regarding a similar case.

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I need a bit of time to unravel the full story

I have a welcome insider that might help

 

soon.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Cheers dx very much appreciated.

 

Any further assistance would be very helpful but

in the meantime I have submitted new complaint to FOS in respect of Aviva as 6 months from my original complaint

with them has nearly lapsed.

 

My other claim with Dial4ALoan / Welcome is still open with the adjudicator at FOS until the 15 Sept before their final response and ombudsman involvement.

 

Cheers

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I would be delving into the ownership

and directors of dial4 a loan cattle's and welcome

 

my spy says

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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OK dx cheers for that but may need some additional guidance on how to address.

 

It seems that FOS are ignoring any linkage under Cattles and are also saying that there is no direct connection between all parties involved ????

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that's exactly like HFC and Hamilton life

 

it was latterly proved Hamilton life was set up or something

by ex directors/managers of HFC.

 

they then had to rather quickly hire 100's of shedder wagons

and go around the UK destroying everything they could.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Absolutely disgraceful !

 

Funny you should mention them,

I have just found an old HFC Trust & Savings loan details from the late 1980's

and with it a Hamilton Insurance / Life policy.

 

 

I notice they added single life and disability premium (ticked themselves)

and even all those years ago I remember the salesperson telling me that for it to be agreed,

I had to take it !

 

Probably no chance finding anything on this one lol !

 

As for Dial4ALoan / Welcome it seems a struggle trying to prove any relationship

and FOS are not bothered on their underhand dealings, in which we all know about.

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you might be surprised what HFC actually hold in data

 

there are several cases of sar's returning data back into the late 1980's early 1990's

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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